Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Today I visited DLP for the first time in 15 or more years. Wow. The WDI group gave me a heroes welcome and was so kind and hospitable. They have great respect for the effort 20 years ago and want to uphold the original design intent where possible. Was able to see some improvements they had made, like the Candy Palace. Well done. Had a chance to say hello to many dear ones that have been with WDI Paris since the construction so the park is personal to them. It was truly like an extended family reunion. I was touched by their outpouring of kindness. Most would be happy to get rid of the old guard, but they made me and my family feel welcome.

Shared a slide show with about 45 people from different divisions, sharing home video of the construction of the park and some fun war stories. The team they have in place is sincerely wonderful, battle tested and tough in the trenches. They have been able to deal with some of the tremendous fiscal and operational challenges that most would shrink from. They have done an amazing job in spite of these problems and know there is still a long way to go. I know how hard all of this is because my job after Paris was doing this job with the Disneyland team during the Pressler years. It was tough then too. Are they dedicated to getting everything they can to the best it can be? Absolutely. Is the park in poor repair? Yes, sadly it is and they know that. You don't want to stare at anything too long. There are bright spots and sore ones. Overall the park from a distance is so rich, it still blows me away 20 years later. I still feel the magic and marvel at the detail in all the lands. Some of the close ups are a bit more painful. Still the most visited tourist attraction in all of Europe. In France, most monuments at one time fell into disrepair before they are embraced and restored to be loved all over again. Maybe that is happening at DLP? The passion is there already and they are moving one step at a time,

The designers and I walked Main Street together and they really want to understand the "why". So fun to answer the really inside questions! A great group walk.

The management prioritized some of the areas that they could pull off for the 20th (the weather creates a smaller maintenance window) and the Castle is awe inspiring. Several shades of pink were carefully chosen to force the perspective skyward. Well done. My son loved the Dragon.

Evidently, the banks that own the park all have to agree on spending for anything and everything. Like having to apply for a home refi loan to go to the supermarket every week. Insanely hard for them to solve things on the spot. Everything is a long drawn out process. But they do it because they love what the park represents. These folks are proud of the park and love it like we all do. I applaud their efforts and hope they hang in there and turn a corner or two. I'm thankful someone is in there slugging for the show. A great day with some great people.

I'm not sure I'd compare DLP to historical monuments there, Eddie. But I'll give you a caught up in the moment moment!

I do think it is sad the shape the resort has fallen into and how even when they 'fix' things, they don't give it their all (if you dined at the lovely restaurant you designed, Walt's, you likely saw that).

Ultimately, it isn't the fault of the banks. It's the fault of TWDC and Euro Disney SCA for getting into debt, never figuring a way out and letting the resort rot for most of its existence. Nothing 500 million euros or so wouldn't fix.

I am sure the cast largely is as you say because I've always had those experiences. They DO care. I've never gotten the idea that they didn't (I do think that point gets skewed by unhappy/French-hating UKers, who'd really rather be baking in the O-Town sun anyway!) ... well, except for management. I don't believe for a second that guys like Rasulo, Holz, and Gas gave/give a damn about much beyond their compensation packages. Georgie K (a perfect example of failing forward, I wish I had his quote to the LA Times in 2001 about how huge a success DCA was going to be and how late-arriving guests would have to settle for DL handy!) leaves the mess of DLP behind and takes over a DLR that has had close to $2 billion infused into it over the past five-six years. Sure makes you look better to have money poured into the product.

Back to your oberservations, I certainly agree that when you look at much of DLP from a distance, it still amazes with its sheer beauty and grandeur. But you REALLY don't want any close-ups beyond a few attractions/facilities that have just been rehabbed.

Oh, did you pick up that 20th Anniversary book? I really am enjoying it a lot (not quite as much as the 10th, but I hadn't been there yet when I picked that up) ... it really shows how BIG Disney went on so many things ... especially in the early days in the beet fields. I did wonder why DLP could put out such a wonderful tome (one that I got numerous requests for on my visit last month!), but no such one came out for DL's 50th and certainly not WDW's 40th or EPCOT's 25th.

Anyway, would love to read more in depth thoughts on what you are seeing and experiencing when you return and compare notes. ... I do think this is all coming to a head this fall and TWDC will have to step in or risk someone else doing so. Maybe Iger could get rid of his million a year bodyguards and donate that to the fund!:)
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I don't think there is one simple elegant answer as to why things have gotten to where they are, because the issues as explained to me by many sources point to different things. It seems rather complicated. Of course, what they do now and in the future is where my interest lies. If Carsland does well and the DCA fix reinvents the park, this will go a long way to proving Bob Iger's investment philosophy about new attractions and placemaking to the banks. The future of the Euro will also play a big part in the next few years of operating cost as France has also made political changes and has unionized workers. Certainly, it is Disney's name and reputation at stake so ultimately it is their risk and responsibility to own the long term deferred maintenance. Anyway, I'm putting lots of the observations into the book, will share some highlights here, and for the remaining few days of my trip it's back to Paris and it's sights. I think my kids would spend their remaining days in the park, given the choice. We did not get to the Studios, SM (closed for rehab), Walt's to eat, and I did not see the book on sale and bought nothing. I signed a copy for someone in the office and thumbed through it, it looked nice. The food we did have (Plaza Gardens and Casey's) was good. All CM's were really nice.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
One issue they have an epidemic of in Paris is Gypsy kids robbing you. They've always had them, but this recent wave is really bad. You have a gang of kids like 11 to 14 being (forced by the mob to perform with quotas) to rush into subways and restaurants and make a big scene shoving things in your face and then grabbing your wallet or phone, purse off of the table in a matter of seconds. I was robbed day before yesterday at a table inside a Cafe with my family. the French open was on TV (Those quaint cafes now have big plasma screens, I hate that) so most of the place including us was watching it. They targeted the place, rushed in a literal instant and yell in your face and pretend to be asking for food or money and they reach for your stuff while a menu or flowers are blocking your view. Amazingly loud and quick. We were yelling back to go away and they still managed to jump to the center of our table. Like a Rugrat tornado. Ironically they burst in just as I put my wallet on the table to pay, and they got it.

Jumped up and gave chase on foot with another victim for two blocks and they had not looked back and paused. We cornered them and made them give the wallets back (I was Batman, not Robin BTW). My cash was gone, was down about 40-50 bucks. Figured making them give the cash would not be successful as there are ten of them and who can search kids in the street?They bolted when I looked down to inspect the wallet. I was content with just having the credit cards and ID intact so that was it.

Lots of warning about pickpockets too. Subways have signs and most events are picking grounds. This is far more acute than 20 years ago. The police try and catch them but it's pretty hard to do. They are professionals.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I think all one has to do see why things can be such a mess with Disneyland Paris' financials is to go look at the organizational chart on the Euro Disney SCA website that tries to explain the ownership and operating structure of the Resort. A lot of this, and the ongoing debt that is owed even to The Walt Disney Company, is due to rather stringent French regulations regarding foreign invest.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
Eddie, sorry to hear that you were robbed. I did not encounter anything like that at all in May in Paris.

Good to hear that you enjoyed your day at DLP though! And you did not miss anything by not going on Space Mountain - well maybe you missed out on getting a headache. This is a rough coaster and Mission II spoiled my favourite themed coaster anyway...

I think all one has to do see why things can be such a mess with Disneyland Paris' financials is to go look at the organizational chart on the Euro Disney SCA website that tries to explain the ownership and operating structure of the Resort. A lot of this, and the ongoing debt that is owed even to The Walt Disney Company, is due to rather stringent French regulations regarding foreign invest.

I have heard those claims again and again about the French regulations. But when I try to find out about what they are I can't find anything on it. So I am NOT sure it is truly French regulations. I think the structure might be chosen because of the deal that was struck with the French government which ensured Disney enormous subsidies from the French state. And because from the start that park was being built on debt.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Screen Shot 2012-06-12 at 11.54.36 AM.png
I'm not saying it's French regulations, in fact, I don't really know what it is except that it's complicated. Things evolved to the way they are over time through many administrations of management and negotiations. I'm no expert, and like conspiracy theories, will likely never know exactly how things really came about. Being built on debt is never a good foundation and it's possible that the problems get deferred until they can rot no more. As I said, I enjoyed the park, felt it's magic, and especially because of those are tirelessly working to keep it going. It rained frequently and the skies out there are truly magical as well. The cloud formations behind the castle at dusk are like nothing I've ever seen. The clouds are well maintained!
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
That's a great picture! I love the DLP castle for its unique silhouette.

Did you see Dreams and if yes, what did you think about it?
 

dagobert

Active Member
I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed DLP and had a great time with former colleagues and CMs. Did you also visit the Walt Disney Studios Park? I would be interested to hear what a former Imagineer thinks about that "themepark". Although it was improved over the years and now I like to spend some time there, it's still far away from a real Disney park. It's sad that the worst park is located next to one of the most beautiful parks, depite its maintenance problems.

I've also heared of the French regulations, but I don't know anything about them. I've read somewhere that TWDC is not allowed to invest directly into ED SCA. They can only provide credit lines. But I don't know if that's true. The whole resort needs a huge capital infusion to bring back its old glory.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Original Poster
One issue they have an epidemic of in Paris is Gypsy kids robbing you. They've always had them, but this recent wave is really bad. You have a gang of kids like 11 to 14 being (forced by the mob to perform with quotas) to rush into subways and restaurants and make a big scene shoving things in your face and then grabbing your wallet or phone, purse off of the table in a matter of seconds. I was robbed day before yesterday at a table inside a Cafe with my family. the French open was on TV (Those quaint cafes now have big plasma screens, I hate that) so most of the place including us was watching it. They targeted the place, rushed in a literal instant and yell in your face and pretend to be asking for food or money and they reach for your stuff while a menu or flowers are blocking your view. Amazingly loud and quick. We were yelling back to go away and they still managed to jump to the center of our table. Like a Rugrat tornado. Ironically they burst in just as I put my wallet on the table to pay, and they got it.

Jumped up and gave chase on foot with another victim for two blocks and they had not looked back and paused. We cornered them and made them give the wallets back (I was Batman, not Robin BTW). My cash was gone, was down about 40-50 bucks. Figured making them give the cash would not be successful as there are ten of them and who can search kids in the street?They bolted when I looked down to inspect the wallet. I was content with just having the credit cards and ID intact so that was it.

Lots of warning about pickpockets too. Subways have signs and most events are picking grounds. This is far more acute than 20 years ago. The police try and catch them but it's pretty hard to do. They are professionals.
Wow. Great job giving chase and getting the wallet back. Losings cards and ID overseas is a situation you really don't want.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
That's a great picture! I love the DLP castle for its unique silhouette.

Did you see Dreams and if yes, what did you think about it?

No we did not. Maybe if we return this week. I've seen it on video and it looks really great.

That raises an interesting issue. Since it is still daylight until about 10pm, the show needs darkness and does not begin till 11pm. This makes it tough for families with small kids, unless they go to the room and then return. It is expensive to run the park that late when the attendance is low during the week, but the big event is not until 11pm so there eis this awkward time when theres not alot to do. When it is a slow rainy weekday like yesterday, they close most of the Restaurants and many of the rides early, some cannot run in the rain anyway. The Steam Train, Nautilus, Autopia, MS Street Cars and more were closed early or not open at all. Space Mountain was already down till the 15th.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Are you going to leave them with notes on what to fix? A friend of mine (also an architect) was telling me about a renovation he is working on. The architect who designed the building in the 60s evidentially still sends the owners notes on what to fix, or aspects which were designed but never completed. The guy must think he is FLW.

They pretty much know what needs repair, my purpose in walking the street with them was to answer questions about the past regarding what was originally intended for a particular attraction or shop, etc. they did ask my opinion on things they had changed and some advice and I was happy to support their efforts.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I have heard those claims again and again about the French regulations. But when I try to find out about what they are I can't find anything on it. So I am NOT sure it is truly French regulations. I think the structure might be chosen because of the deal that was struck with the French government which ensured Disney enormous subsidies from the French state. And because from the start that park was being built on debt.
I may have some specifics from research buried somewhere, but based on other research I have done I find it very plausible. Institutionalized protectionism and xenophobia is an issue I think that contemporary France still has yet to seriously tackle.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
First, sorry to hear about your little brush with crime. I haven't been in a situation like that, but I did have an interesting experience on my last visit (before last month) in fall 2009. We were leaving the Eiffel Tower on our first night and the subway was packed. Suddenly, I saw this girl of all about 14 slip her hand into my friend's front shorts pocket (where his wallet was). This is one big all-American dude and he grabbed her arm and twisted it so hard I thought he'd broken it. She yelped and ran away. ... Fast forward three days later and we're at DLP walking down MSUSA and guess what? There she is. She saw us and took off very quickly in the other direction.

I guess it's just another example of needing to be careful. I never took my wallet out with me if I could help it, just ID, 1-2 credit cards and all the cash I'd need for the day and it was not in any position anyone could get to without knocking me out!

Anyway ... back to your visit, I must admit I'm surprised by a lot ... like not opting to see DSP (it may not be a very good park, but one would think you might be curious enough to check it out and it does certainly have some wonderful and unique attractions). Also surprised you didn't dine at Walt's or see Dreams. Hell, I'm surprised the team there didn't provide you with a signed copy of the wonderful 20th book. For a once in two decades visit, it seems like you didn't get to see/do very much at all.

Oh, and very bluntly (that IS my style, after all) I think it was a bit classless that Philippe Gas didn't bother to meet you, even for five minutes. After all, you were one of the lead designers of the park and all ...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I'm sure it was a big treat for them to hear from one of the original designers of DLP.

Just as much as it is a treat to see you around, oldtimer!

You are missed ... now why don't you send me an email that I'll take a month to answer?!?!:D
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Screen Shot 2012-06-12 at 11.55.02 AM.png
First, sorry to hear about your little brush with crime. I haven't been in a situation like that, but I did have an interesting experience on my last visit (before last month) in fall 2009. We were leaving the Eiffel Tower on our first night and the subway was packed. Suddenly, I saw this girl of all about 14 slip her hand into my friend's front shorts pocket (where his wallet was). This is one big all-American dude and he grabbed her arm and twisted it so hard I thought he'd broken it. She yelped and ran away. ... Fast forward three days later and we're at DLP walking down MSUSA and guess what? There she is. She saw us and took off very quickly in the other direction.

I guess it's just another example of needing to be careful. I never took my wallet out with me if I could help it, just ID, 1-2 credit cards and all the cash I'd need for the day and it was not in any position anyone could get to without knocking me out!

Anyway ... back to your visit, I must admit I'm surprised by a lot ... like not opting to see DSP (it may not be a very good park, but one would think you might be curious enough to check it out and it does certainly have some wonderful and unique attractions). Also surprised you didn't dine at Walt's or see Dreams. Hell, I'm surprised the team there didn't provide you with a signed copy of the wonderful 20th book. For a once in two decades visit, it seems like you didn't get to see/do very much at all.

Oh, and very bluntly (that IS my style, after all) I think it was a bit classless that Philippe Gas didn't bother to meet you, even for five minutes. After all, you were one of the lead designers of the park and all ...

I cannot believe you saw the same girl. They must make enough to subsidize admission too.

Our choices of what to visit was not about lack of interest, it was about intermittent downpours, and not a lot of time. We did not get to do that much, but that's ok. Maybe we will get back out there before we leave. I did not get done doing speaking, in park walk-thru, office tours, lunch with WDI till 5pm, so getting back with my family and riding the few rides that were open did not leave enough time to experience DLP (Walt's and Blue Lagoon, Auberge were closing) let alone hop parks or anything like that (the DSP closed at 6). I wanted to walk Main Street with the kids and show them the insider stuff, etc. It had been a long day, so my wife was not into hanging out till 11pm as we had museums scheduled in Paris the following day, so we headed back. They offered for us to return anytime, and we will try. I received more death grip hugs there than since I visited my grandmother! I have given the same talk before but the reaction here was amazing. I don't care about not meeting Mr. Gas, although my talk was well attended by many divisions, not just Imagineering. Some CM's overheard me doing the train announcer voice as the train arrived and freaked out, that was funny. The team that has to keep the place going was my concern and they expressed their sincere appreciation for my encouragement.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
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I'm sure it was a big treat for them to hear from one of the original designers of DLP.
They certainly appreciated the talk. I focused not only on the "how" of building the park, but "why" we care and why the details are important. Why it takes a personal passion to keep pressing on for what should be, not just what is easy to do. the day to day grind can cause you to lose the bigger picture perspective. I think sometimes you get so close to what you are doing you need fresh eyes to remind you of why things are important and provide some support. They got that. It was less about straight history and more about how those things happened and why it's important that they are there.
 

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
View attachment 27896

Some CM's overheard me doing the train announcer voice as the train arrived and freaked out, that was funny. The team that has to keep the place going was my concern and they expressed their sincere appreciation for my encouragement.

I would have enjoyed seeing the reactions of the CMs. Is that picture in front of the famous twisted dentist that you voiced? Were you tempted to quote any of your lines or go in and get some work done?o_O
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I would have enjoyed seeing the reactions of the CMs. Is that picture in front of the famous twisted dentist that you voiced? Were you tempted to quote any of your lines or go in and get some work done?o_O

Yes, it is my alter ego, Dr. E S Bitz. "Nine out of ten patients go to Bitz". It was fun to hear the soundtrack of laughter and agony again. The CM's were asked to take our team picture in front of the station and the announcer voice did not trigger, so one of the Imagineers asked me to do it live as the train came in. The CM's behind the camera were pretty shocked as they hear it all day long but not from a person. So they asked to take phone pics with me after. Cute!
 

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