Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

Finally rode Nemo Subs.

Being more than a bit claustrophobic, I finally forced myself onto the Subs tonight. The night version must be less vibrant than the day, but all in I was fascinated by the video aspects. I found that it was hard to follow or pay attention to the dialog at all as there are lots of things to just observe as you are quickly tracking by. I'd pick up snippets then be distracted by something I'm interested in seeing and miss there fish yelling for Nemo or something. I missed those Submarines. Very unique.

What is your take? From One to ten, ten being best?

 

[Daannzzz]

On the whole I give the Nemo subs a 6. We rode at night the last time as I thought the lighting would look really cool. The outside section is much more colorful and alive during the day.
I really like the idea of the subs but I think the Nemo theme is anemic. It is like they took an adventure for everyone and turned it into a kids ride. Some of the effects are really good though. I love the volcano room. The projections mostly don't work for me. When we rode it after first opening it looked better. Now some of the glass is dirty or corrupted and you can see more how it is all done. I think the projections work much better in the aquarium section of the Nemo ride at Epcot. I think the ride still has great potential with a different theme, something more exciting.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

On the whole I give the Nemo subs a 6. We rode at night the last time as I thought the lighting would look really cool. The outside section is much more colorful and alive during the day.
I really like the idea of the subs but I think the Nemo theme is anemic. It is like they took an adventure for everyone and turned it into a kids ride. Some of the effects are really good though. I love the volcano room. The projections mostly don't work for me. When we rode it after first opening it looked better. Now some of the glass is dirty or corrupted and you can see more how it is all done. I think the projections work much better in the aquarium section of the Nemo ride at Epcot. I think the ride still has great potential with a different theme, something more exciting.

As an aside, we spent a significant amount of time years ago doing a "Search for the Titanic" version. It was pretty exciting as you ride through the wreckage and had a small monitor below the porthole that showed you "live" shots from other points of view of the sub (divecam) and from remote cameras on the Divers. To me, I'd rather have Cameron hosting that! At the end, you got off the sub in an air pocket of Atlantis!

 

[flynnibus]

Being more than a bit claustrophobic, I finally forced myself onto the Subs tonight. The night version must be less vibrant than the day, but all in I was fascinated by the video aspects. I found that it was hard to follow or pay attention to the dialog at all as there are lots of things to just observe as you are quickly tracking by. I'd pick up snippets then be distracted by something I'm interested in seeing and miss there fish yelling for Nemo or something. I missed those Submarines. Very unique.

What is your take? From One to ten, ten being best?

I was disappointed they tried to follow the movie plot again. The movie's conclusion leaves it so open ended that we could experience a new story line unique to the attraction that tries to integrate the subs/setting. I liked the new sub color schemes. I did not like they did nothing to try to update the queue and lack of preshow. The projection setup really seems 'flat' and does not integrate nearly as well as it does in the EPCOT version. I'm wondering if the limited set sizes really play a big part in that in 'selling' that the projection is in the void, instead of a flat screen itself.

I think it's cute... but I think it fails to harness the emotional pull of the movie or play off the sub's strengths. The 20k ride while having inferior sets managed to take references from the movie, without duplicating the movie. The full ensemble of the characters for the CMs, the sub's dressing, the soundtrack, the narration, the tie into the sub effects - it all integrated into the movie's world 30x better and with the soundtrack.. pulls the emotion, suspense, and energy from the film into the attraction.

The nemo subs fail to do all of that in my opinion. And given the price tag of the attraction, I think in hindsight it was a poor choice. I think this is an area where nostalgia is 9/10ths of the appeal for bringing back the sub attraction.

I would give Nemo subs maybe a 6.. and would make that # even lower if I were considering if it were a sound investment for the park. And if one looks at what could have been accomplished with the EPCOT version.. for so much cheaper to build and operate... I think the sub's looks even worse as a operational choice. Nemo in EPCOT pulls off being a cute C ticket with what feels like 'Disney only touches'.

 

[jt04]

Being more than a bit claustrophobic, I finally forced myself onto the Subs tonight. The night version must be less vibrant than the day, but all in I was fascinated by the video aspects. I found that it was hard to follow or pay attention to the dialog at all as there are lots of things to just observe as you are quickly tracking by. I'd pick up snippets then be distracted by something I'm interested in seeing and miss there fish yelling for Nemo or something. I missed those Submarines. Very unique.

I have to laugh at the irony of the creative force behind Mission:Space being claustropobic. Heh. Certainly you must not have gotten away without actually experiencing the attraction. :lookaroun:lol:


The first thing I thought after experiencing the Nemo omnimover at The Seas was how effective the video illusions were. I specifically remember being encouraged that Imagineering still had the ability to create such a magical illusion. So it is cool to hear you appreciated the effect. Kind of validates my opinion. Rare event for me around here. :lol:

I concluded at some point that the Epcot version was a test for both the Nemo subs at DL but also the new Mermaid omnimover rides. Makes me wonder if once both Mermaids go on-line if The Seas might not be in for a bit of an overhaul. Perhaps something a bit more EPCOT Center-ish.

One can only hope.

So I am not letting you off the hook here, did you actually ride M:S or were you last seen running for the exits? :lol: I have to know.

PS- I personally find it to be cutting edge and one of the best attractions at any theme park. Thanks for making it happen!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was disappointed they tried to follow the movie plot again. The movie's conclusion leaves it so open ended that we could experience a new story line unique to the attraction that tries to integrate the subs/setting. I liked the new sub color schemes. I did not like they did nothing to try to update the queue and lack of preshow. The projection setup really seems 'flat' and does not integrate nearly as well as it does in the EPCOT version. I'm wondering if the limited set sizes really play a big part in that in 'selling' that the projection is in the void, instead of a flat screen itself.

I think it's cute... but I think it fails to harness the emotional pull of the movie or play off the sub's strengths. The 20k ride while having inferior sets managed to take references from the movie, without duplicating the movie. The full ensemble of the characters for the CMs, the sub's dressing, the soundtrack, the narration, the tie into the sub effects - it all integrated into the movie's world 30x better and with the soundtrack.. pulls the emotion, suspense, and energy from the film into the attraction.

The nemo subs fail to do all of that in my opinion. And given the price tag of the attraction, I think in hindsight it was a poor choice. I think this is an area where nostalgia is 9/10ths of the appeal for bringing back the sub attraction.

I would give Nemo subs maybe a 6.. and would make that # even lower if I were considering if it were a sound investment for the park. And if one looks at what could have been accomplished with the EPCOT version.. for so much cheaper to build and operate... I think the sub's looks even worse as a operational choice. Nemo in EPCOT pulls off being a cute C ticket with what feels like 'Disney only touches'.

Well thought out critique. Thanks. It is important to understand the Submarines strengths and weaknesses as a ride system. I think the video effect works well in some lighting conditions and less so in others. The first few scenes were successful with Crush, but some with Bruce the Shark felt flat as the size of the image was big enough for you to sense the screen. It is hard to create a natural light source that is balanced to the glow of the video (as if the light from the surface is lighting the fish) and if it's off, then it's a "tell". My son mentioned that he could see through some of the fish at times. All in, it was fun, but moving past a story with dialog makes me pay attention to one or the other. I chose the scenery. Like a continuous pan with a camera in a movie to the right makes it hard to engage with the actors. Compared to static fish on strings years ago, it's a triumph. The Subs are iconic, and being a kid raised on "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea", I prefer a more "real" adventure, but will happily accept this if it keeps them going to receive yet another version in the future.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I have to laugh at the irony of the creative force behind Mission:Space being claustropobic. Heh. Certainly you must not have gotten away without actually experiencing the attraction. :lookaroun:lol:


The first thing I thought after experiencing the Nemo omnimover at The Seas was how effective the video illusions were. I specifically remember being encouraged that Imagineering still had the ability to create such a magical illusion. So it is cool to hear you appreciated the effect. Kind of validates my opinion. Rare event for me around here. :lol:

I concluded at some point that the Epcot version was a test for both the Nemo subs at DL but also the new Mermaid omnimover rides. Makes me wonder if once both Mermaids go on-line if The Seas might not be in for a bit of an overhaul. Perhaps something a bit more EPCOT Center-ish.

One can only hope.

So I am not letting you off the hook here, did you actually ride M:S or were you last seen running for the exits? :lol: I have to know.

PS- I personally find it to be cutting edge and one of the best attractions at any theme park. Thanks for making it happen!

My issues got worse over the years, but rode all of the test flights in real simulators. It was tough for me given all of the legal paranoia on the signage leading up to riding.. I was filled with dread but did ride it and about halfway through wished it was over. They did some things in it that did not help. The reference point as to where you are headed and the horizon was missing and that makes it stressy and motion sick. I would have liked something on the screen prior to launch to make it less claustrophobic. We created a new ride system that was born of the story of the real experience of launch, So I'm proud of that. I've been recently on rides that have made me uncomfortable and been able to get over it.

 

[MarkTwain]

Being more than a bit claustrophobic, I finally forced myself onto the Subs tonight. The night version must be less vibrant than the day, but all in I was fascinated by the video aspects. I found that it was hard to follow or pay attention to the dialog at all as there are lots of things to just observe as you are quickly tracking by. I'd pick up snippets then be distracted by something I'm interested in seeing and miss there fish yelling for Nemo or something. I missed those Submarines. Very unique.

What is your take? From One to ten, ten being best?

I really liked the Nemo subs; I'd give it a 7 or an 8 pretty easily. I only barely remember MK's 20,000 Leagues from my own childhood, and while the Nemo version may technically be inferior, I think the attraction's strengths still readily hold up the attraction as one of the best in the park. Just the experience of being in a submarine and looking out through a porthole into underwater scenery is a major part of the attraction experience, and something that 99% of people will never experience otherwise. In that sense, much of the magic of the original attraction really hasn't changed, and I mean that in the best possible way.

I also think that the emotional tone of the attraction has altered slightly. In the original 20K Leagues/Submarine Voyage (and bear with me, like I said I barely remember it), the tone was much more about awe and even intimidation - impressing the audience with the drama of the sea, the spookiness of the Graveyard of Lost Ships. The Nemo subs focuses much more on the emotional sensitivity of the Pixar film, and I think there's something to be said for that. I'm not sure the static sets or plasticy underwater animals are going to do much to strike awe in people anymore. In a way, I think the sort of intimate viewing environment helps with the new, more sensitive tone - you're looking through this tiny porthole at these little fish finding their way through a big ocean, and you feel like you're a part of it.

I guess what you see as claustrophobic, Eddie, I see as intimate. :lol:

 

[KevinYee]

Eddie, can you give us a list of all the voiceover work you've done in the parks?

I know about the Main Street dentist, the "We have ignition" on the ________ Dale Anaheim Space Mountain, and apparently Jungle Cruise queue radio voice (all the voices? Orlando's version?)

Is there more?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Probably in the minority here, but I think the subs are just "ok". I much prefer the other Nemo attraction in the Living Seas. I am happy to have them back in operation at Disneyland. They look great, but I wish the storyline were different.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, can you give us a list of all the voiceover work you've done in the parks?

I know about the Main Street dentist, the "We have ignition" on the ________ Dale Anaheim Space Mountain, and apparently Jungle Cruise queue radio voice (all the voices? Orlando's version?)

Is there more?

Yes. Some may have been redone but here's the list as I know it.

Attractions.

Steam Train Announcer WDW and DLP (i.e. Your attention please...Last call boooooooard!)
BTM Safety 101 Spiel DLP
Space Mountain DL "we have ignition" "clear for launch"
Space Mountain WDW/DL video voiceover as Robin Leach (Lifestyles of Rich and Alien).
WCKY Radio Toontown Announcer DL in Mickey's House. also some voice mail.
Toontown DL- some of the cartoon sounds in mailboxes, etc.
TDL Pooh- Bee Kazoo Singer.
TDL Tiki Room "Get the Fever" show various background voices.
Jungle Cruise Radio Voice (not the main announcer, supporting voices) DL. maybe WDW.
The Market House "Party Line" Telephones, Quentin Spoon- Firemaster DL/DLP/WDW

Upstairs windows Main Street.

Dentist Office (Doctor Bitz) DL, DLP
Hotel Marceline (Guy in Shower) DL, DLP
Dance Instructor DLP
Snoring Detective DLP

Adventureland Arcade machines.

Shrunken Ned- DL
Aladdin's other Lamp- "Carnak" type Genie DL

Encounter Restaurant- Sound Effects in Bar Guns and Beer Taps.

Also selected music for area BGM in New Orleans Square, Frontierland and Main Street in DL in the late 90's. TDL Tomorrowland tracks as well.

It was a childhood dream come true to be featured on the CD of the park music a few years back.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Intimate is good and becoming harder to do with the need to process large amounts of guests. M:S is intentionally intimate as that's the reality of how
Astronauts experience Space. The SB Castle Walk thru at DL is intimate with the windows that tell the story. You try to make the action seem personal and get the guest close to it. Star Tours is a good shared experience as the format is easily accepted as an airplane. So good too.

 

[Vernonpush]

Yes. Some may have been redone but here's the list as I know it.

Attractions.

Steam Train Announcer WDW and DLP (i.e. Your attention please...Last call boooooooard!)
BTM Safety 101 Spiel DLP
Space Mountain DL "we have ignition" "clear for launch"
Space Mountain WDW/DL video voiceover as Robin Leach (Lifestyles of Rich and Alien).
Radio Toontown Announcer DL Mickey's House.
Toontown cartoon voices in mailboxes, etc.
TDL Pooh- Bee Kazoo Singer.
TDL Tiki Room "Get the Fever" show various background voices.
Jungle Cruise Radio Voice (not the main announcer, supporting voices) DL.
The Market House Telephones, Quentin Spoon Firemaster

Upstairs windows Main Street.

Dentist Office (Doctor Bitz) DL, DLP
Hotel Marceline (Guy in Shower) DL, DLP
Dance Instructor DLP

Adventureland Arcade machines.

Shrunken Ned- DL
Aladdin's other Lamp- Genie DL

Impressive! Are you AFTRA? Or is that not even a part of the "Theme Park" world? I have quite a few friend who are/were 'voice talents' and for many companies around the country. I also have a friend who was an arbitrator between Equity and the Walt Disney World Theme Park for a couple of years. He and his wife are now happy bringing theatre to young audiences across the southeast on their own terms.
I also know that many of the 'voices' in the Parks is not the "original" voice talent from the original "franchise".
What are your views regarding "voice talents" in the Parks?

 

[jt04]

My issues got worse over the years, but rode all of the test flights in real simulators. It was tough for me given all of the legal paranoia on the signage leading up to riding.. I was filled with dread but did ride it and about halfway through wished it was over. They did some things in it that did not help. The reference point as to where you are headed and the horizon was missing and that makes it stressy and motion sick. I would have liked something on the screen prior to launch to make it less claustrophobic. We created a new ride system that was born of the story of the real experience of launch, So I'm proud of that. I've been recently on rides that have made me uncomfortable and been able to get over it.

Sorry, I thought it was something you might have some humorous insider stories to pass on but rather it sounds like it was a real issue for you. And I guess it is even more amazing that you could design such a ride knowing it was a very confined space. It really does work and I will never forget that first blast off. Without a doubt the best thrill ride experience I have had. I wish they would expand the pavilion and make something worthy of the subject and the attraction.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Sorry, I thought it was something you might have some humorous insider stories to pass on but rather it sounds like it was a real issue for you. And I guess it is even more amazing that you could design such a ride knowing it was a very confined space. It really does work and I will never forget that first blast off. Without a doubt the best thrill ride experience I have had. I wish they would expand the pavilion and make something worthy of the subject and the attraction.

I didn't really suffer from it in any significant way till after I quit the company, then the ride opened afterward and that was when it was difficult.

My alter ego, Shrunken Ned ironically gives advice about getting therapy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lHossHnIhY

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Impressive! Are you AFTRA? Or is that not even a part of the "Theme Park" world? I have quite a few friend who are/were 'voice talents' and for many companies around the country. I also have a friend who was an arbitrator between Equity and the Walt Disney World Theme Park for a couple of years. He and his wife are now happy bringing theatre to young audiences across the southeast on their own terms.
I also know that many of the 'voices' in the Parks is not the "original" voice talent from the original "franchise".
What are your views regarding "voice talents" in the Parks?

The SM Robin Leach voice happened because the actor did not show, that (Fedex SM queue) video was SAG union and I volunteered to knock off that voice. It got me into SAG. The other work was non-union and Disney owns your voice and anything you do on camera in your employment contract, as with anything else, so it's seen as a buyout. I can knock off or imitate many of the voices, as I recorded the attractions with cassette recorder as a kid and rehearsed them for years. Memorized in character most of the shows. Most of the work I got was because I "cast" myself !! Makes auditions easy!

My views on voice talent is not so much the talent, it's usually the over written script or the weak direction of the talent. I took Voice Over courses at UCLA, not so much to act, but to understand the craft as to better direct the talent. You learn to mark the script as to where to place emphasis, etc. I was not a good director and had difficulties directing a recording session because I could not express myself properly to the actors. The class helps you know what terms (i.e. brighter, rounder, push this soften that, etc.) to use to steer the talent. Afterward, I got the hang of it. I don't think they let the show designer direct anymore, but back then you did most everything.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Sorry, I thought it was something you might have some humorous insider stories to pass on but rather it sounds like it was a real issue for you. And I guess it is even more amazing that you could design such a ride knowing it was a very confined space. It really does work and I will never forget that first blast off. Without a doubt the best thrill ride experience I have had. I wish they would expand the pavilion and make something worthy of the subject and the attraction.

I agree it's a great opening act to an entire Pavilion that could have really expanded on the subject. I'm hoping that something like that will be added at some point and that Mr. Branson reads this thread!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

On the whole I give the Nemo subs a 6. We rode at night the last time as I thought the lighting would look really cool. The outside section is much more colorful and alive during the day.
I really like the idea of the subs but I think the Nemo theme is anemic. It is like they took an adventure for everyone and turned it into a kids ride. Some of the effects are really good though. I love the volcano room. The projections mostly don't work for me. When we rode it after first opening it looked better. Now some of the glass is dirty or corrupted and you can see more how it is all done. I think the projections work much better in the aquarium section of the Nemo ride at Epcot. I think the ride still has great potential with a different theme, something more exciting.

You make a good point. There are a huge number of projectors in that ride and from a tuning and maintenance point of view, I'd imagine you'd really have to stay on top of things to keep the magic alive. As a designer, you have to be realistic about what you are asking for in the long term as you could end up watching effects get pulled out or stray from adjustment if you make it too complex.

 

[HMF]

As a designer, you have to be realistic about what you are asking for in the long term as you could end up watching effects get pulled out or stray from adjustment if you make it too complex.

Cough, Yeti,Cough:lookaroun

 

[jasonfresta]

Cough, Yeti,Cough:lookaroun

imagine if you were his doctor?