Economy does in Fantasyland

[MousDad]

As to Space Mountain, while I don't know the specifics, any issues with the scope of its redo likely were more on an ops/TDO end than a major budget issue with Burbank as the money was decided quite a bit ago. So, if they're going for a seven-month redo I don't even want to think about what will be or won't be done. But it will likely be more cosmetic than anything and on that sorry old ride that simply won't cut it.

I thought you've said a couple of times on LP that the cutbacks in the SM refurb were budget related?

 

[SpongeScott]

Heres my take. I think there are more pressing refurbs than space mountain. The fact is the average guest still loves space mountain, most guests don't come off it and say "I think this ride needs to be gutted", most are happy and run back into line. Truthfully I kinda like the version we have now, even though it probably needs fixing up. So it really doesn't burn me to bad to see the refurb getting cut back at bit. I have never been to DL but I am assuming most WDW guests have not been to DL either(could be wrong). And if they have, they probably haven't rode the new Space Mountain. So those of us who haven't experienced the new version have nothing to compare it too. Thus we have no comparison and we don't feel like were missing anything. Lastly, whenever a classic attraction gets a refurb I always get a little nervous, just because I fear change. Although the HM turned out quite well. Let the lambasting begin :lol:

Once you've ridden DL's, you understand why WDW's need a major rehab. There is no comparison between the two. If they make WDW's as good as DL's, it will be worth all the down-time in the world.

 

[lwalker8]

Jim Hill is full of it. He loves to just make stuff up and parade around the internet pretending he's important.

 

[Mick G.]

DLP's Space Mountain is also a revelation, much better than the WDW version.

I get the feeling that WDW is being reactive -- Bookings are down, so let's cut costs -- rather than being proactive -- Bookings are down, so let's get some new attractions in the pipeline, to draw in more return guests.

Mick

 

[RiversideBunny]

The DRC is dead. Dead, dead, dead. Hardly any bookings at all for '09.

What's a DRC?

Tks.

 

[Lee]

What's a DRC?

Tks.

The reservation center.

 

[MousDad]

The reservation center.

"Simultaneous Reporting" of this today at JHM. (I'm using my terminology carefully these days.)

 

[OFTeric]

Well with all the empty rooms it means that you will be able to score some really GREAT deals down here in Orlando! Especially when you are enjoying your free park ticket or 75.00 merchandise credit in the parks!

Basically 09 might be they year to really enjoy an inexpensive Orlando Holiday!

 

[RiversideBunny]

When we went in November of 2001, when tourism almost came to a halt, WDW was offering the Moderate rooms at $85 a night. Normal price for that season was $139.
I think Value rooms were going for $59. Normal price was $99.
They cut the price on the Deluxe rooms also but not to the same degree.

 

[Master Yoda]

When we went in November of 2001, when tourism almost came to a halt, WDW was offering the Moderate rooms at $85 a night. Normal price for that season was $139.
I think Value rooms were going for $59. Normal price was $99.
They cut the price on the Deluxe rooms also but not to the same degree.

During that time we were getting Savannah Rooms at AKL for around $150-$180. God I miss those days. We could plan trips complete with dining and room reservations on the ride from Jacksonville to WDW.

 

[JWG]

The DRC is dead. Dead, dead, dead. Hardly any bookings at all for '09.

I was looking at a HR Manager/Director job for the DRC earlier this year... then quickly realized I'd be crazy to want to manage a call center on the HR side.

Hopefully folks will get some good deals to come in 2009. My parents are DVC members, so we're going in 2009 because well... you have to use your points, they're already paid for. DVC is what will (help) carry Disney through this as they did in 2001-2002. It's too bad they don't offer deals or thank you's to members for preventing a complete bottom out of attendance.

The only discount DVC members get is on an annual pass and many of us do not live close enough to make it a valuable investment. I'm not complaining personally, I get free lodging as my parents are tickled to get to spend a week with my wife, me and their granddaughter. Ok, really probably just their granddaughter...

But anyway, it'd be nice of the DVC members who continue to come and pump money into WDW would get some additional discounts or recognition instead of having discounts taken away or reduced.

--OFF soap box---

 

[RiversideBunny]

Is there visibility on direct on-line bookings for 2009?

We always book on-line.

Tks.

 

[Brian Noble]

DVC is what will (help) carry Disney through this as they did in 2001-2002.

This has been a very conscious strategy in the post-9/11 world.

Disney has not started construction on a single new hotel room since 9/11, and they halted construction on the half-finshed "other side" of Pop Century, writing off the entire capital invested.

At the same time, they've opened or announced BCV, SSR, AKV, and BLT---adding plenty of DVC inventory while removing some hotel inventory in the top two floors of AKL and the north tower of CR.

In short, the past 5-7 years have seen a complete change in the philosophy behind developing the resort, to act as a buffer for bad times. This is the first real test of that strategy.

 

[RiversideBunny]

That strategy is not so much for acting as a buffer against temporary economic swings as it is a trend toward upper level accomodations which bring in more return on investment.
In the case of the DVC it also brings in the return earlier, up front.

 

[mcjaco]

I heard in another thread that some small work had begun on Imagination. So that makes me think that everything will be going as planned with that. I could be wrong about that though.

They're removing Fast Pass machines from HISTA, which is what they're doing for most of the shows. Once again, I think the "insiders" are grapsing at straws to make their predictions fit.

I'm not a fan of Jim Hill. As I read the article, I took it as I told you this Fantasyland make over "might" happen. Now I'm telling you it "might" not because of this. Which means, that once again, Jim Hill has told us nothing, and has both of his ends covered, so he's "right" either way it goes.

DLP's Space Mountain is also a revelation, much better than the WDW version.

I can find a large quantity of people that would disagree with that statement. As well as thinking DL's is better than WDW's.

 

[jt04]

Ummm...perhaps you haven't been following the financial crisis...'cause if you had been you'd know how false that statement is. Part of the reason the economy is collapsing is because the banks have STOPPED lending, even to each other. Part of the emergency of the bailout package was because the banks were going to freeze ALL credit ...meaning that most businesses (most businesses operate on short-term loans to meet payroll and other operational expenses, using cash on hand and other assets as collateral) would have to lay-off millions of workers, not to mention the freeze on consumer credit. Disney's cash on hand probably wouldn't cover ALL its operational expenses at any one time. And even if it did, it wouldn't last very long. If Disney can't even afford to keep all its entertainment options running, how are they going to afford these major construction projects?

Disney would be absolutely irresponsible to begin ambitious construction projects in this economy. Unlike Six Flags or Cedar Fair parks, Disney doesn't wholly rely on new attractions or improvements to keep people coming through their gates (long term, yes, but short-term, no). It may motivate locals to visit more frequently, but the long-distance travelor won't be any more likely to come with a shiny new attraction.



It's unlikely that anything in the SM rehab has been prepaid. And the rehab is most likely still happening more for safety concerns than cosmetic (just speculation on my part, of course). Businesses, at least on the scale of Disney, would never pay money upfront...if the company they hire goes bankrupt then they would lose that money.

I was being sarcastic about Disney going to the bank. They have (had) plenty of cash on hand to do anything they like in relation to fixing SM.

Just the work the Imagineers did on the design of the refurb is "money upfront" and there is no way a company starts designing and building hardware (track, sets) without a contract and some sort of capital. If Disney can't get a bank loan (as you argue ) where the heck would a track designer/builder get the money to start the project without the contractor providing funds through a "down payment". Now maybe Disney has that kind of clout but I doubt it. That is my thinking anyway.

Like someone mentioned, during the severe economic crisis of the mid to late seventies Disney built SM, TTA and Pirates and was designing Epcot (not an inexpensive process). It would be irresponsible not to go forward now. Announced projects (and evident progress) is the best advertising to bring visitors back in droves as the economy recovers and the attractions come on-line. The strategy worked once so I don't see why it would not work again.

Sorry I am an optimist and when the "zeitgeist" is doom and gloom I always see opportunity. I never drink the kool-aid offered by the pop culture but thanks for offering. :lol:

 

[Lee]

I can find a large quantity of people that would disagree with that statement. As well as thinking DL's is better than WDW's.

No accounting for taste....

But, objectively...DL's is superior in almost every way.
Ride quality. Theming. Upkeep. Visuals. Trains. Handicap acessability.

WDW's wins on....um....well....it's bigger. Inline seating is kinda cool, I guess. Couple nice drops. That's pretty much it.

 

[OFTeric]

I was being sarcastic about Disney going to the bank. They have (had) plenty of cash on hand to do anything they like in relation to fixing SM.

Just the work the Imagineers did on the design of the refurb is "money upfront" and there is no way a company starts designing and building hardware (track, sets) without a contract and some sort of capital. If Disney can't get a bank loan (as you argue ) where the heck would a track designer/builder get the money to start the project without the contractor providing funds through a "down payment". Now maybe Disney has that kind of clout but I doubt it. That is my thinking anyway.

Like someone mentioned, during the severe economic crisis of the mid to late seventies Disney built SM, TTA and Pirates and was designing Epcot (not an inexpensive process). It would be irresponsible not to go forward now. Announced projects (and evident progress) is the best advertising to bring visitors back in droves as the economy recovers and the attractions come on-line. The strategy worked once so I don't see why it would not work again.

Sorry I am an optimist and when the "zeitgeist" is doom and gloom I always see opportunity. I never drink the kool-aid offered by the pop culture but thanks for offering. :lol:

Let us also remember that it was the building of EPCOT and a string of box office bombs that led the company in financial peril, that required the expertise and strength of Micheal Eisner to come in and rescue the company from corporate raiders who wanted to sell off the company piece by piece.

 

[mcjaco]

But, objectively...DL's is superior in almost every way.
Ride quality. Theming. Upkeep. Visuals. Trains. Handicap acessability.

WDW's wins on....um....well....it's bigger. Inline seating is kinda cool, I guess. Couple nice drops. That's pretty much it.

If you're going to base the two off of ride quality, you're comparing apples to oranges. A coaster that around 30 years old to one that's barely ten. That's not a fair comparison. Let's see how DL's rides in thirty years, then compare. Vekoma's don't hold up very well, and are not known for their smooth ride. Granted maintenance will help, but even the best Vekoma's are still rough.

As for theming? Perhaps. I like the queue at DL better, but I've always loved MK's loading area better. Watching the ride while in line is much more exciting to me.

Having rode more that 100 coasters (which isn't a great number by any means), I still rate MK's higher than DL's. I like the drops, and the multiple tracks over DL's. Perhaps after my visit next week, I'll agree with you, but it's still subjective to each of us.

 

[jt04]

Let us also remember that it was the building of EPCOT and a string of box office bombs that led the company in financial peril, that required the expertise and strength of Micheal Eisner to come in and rescue the company from corporate raiders who wanted to sell off the company piece by piece.

I absolutely give Eisner credit for what he did even with the mistakes. WDW has built-out twice when some would have questioned the logic of it.

Now some flame me when I say WDW could be sold off in chunks to different entities but I honestly believe that could happen if they lose the vision management had in the 1970's and Eisner had in his heyday.

The conceptual artwork of the Imagineers combined with construction walls of an exciting new attraction/land/park is far more effective than a marketing campaign IMO. Especially at a place like WDW.