DVC Member needs more !

[DVCOwner]

I have a friend that became a member the first year of DVC. Most of the great benifits that he got the first few years (like park tickets) where purchased by DVC to encourage sales and not a benift granted by the Parks. I continue to say that DVC continues to provide what I have been promissed. I would just like to see Disney Parks do something to say "thank you" for my continue suport. I am sure that in return I would send even more at the Parks and recommend to others to purchase DVC.

 

[chwilson88]

That's still a lot of tickets. 2500 two bedroom equivalents X 9 guests = 22,500 FPs per day.

I'm not convinced that your numbers are even remotely realistic for DVC attendance at parks each day. Very far fetched IMHO. You are acting like a DVC employee or something to have such defensive, conservative, high estimates of the impacts of such fast passes. I'm not convincned that they would have such dramatic, acute impacts in the parks, considering not all guests in each villa would actually use all of the FPs, etc etc. We agree that there would be some impact, but not at the high-end of your estimates.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm not convinced that your numbers are even remotely realistic for DVC attendance at parks each day. Very far fetched IMHO. You are acting like a DVC employee or something to have such defensive, conservative, high estimates of the impacts of such fast passes. I'm not convincned that they would have such dramatic, acute impacts in the parks, considering not all guests in each villa would actually use all of the FPs, etc etc. We agree that there would be some impact, but not at the high-end of your estimates.

Many days, no the impact would not be so profound. But when you're looking at a situation like this, planners ABSOLUTELY must consider the worst case scenario. It doesn't matter if DVC villas only have registered guests equal to about 50% of their max occupancy on a Tuesday in September. What matters is how the parks would be impacted when the villas are at 90% occupancy on a Monday during Spring Break week.

I did some quick math to determine the max occupancy of all DVC villas at WDW. Among all resorts at WDW there are:

628 Dedicated Studio Villas
885 Dedicated 1B
2417 Dedicated and Lockoff 2B
106 Grand Villas

With max occupancy of 4, 5, 9 and 12 respectively, there could be as many as 24,538 DVC members staying in those villas at any time. So my initial number was actually low.

If I had to guess, I'd say that on a typical day DVC villas are around 75% of max occupancy* and that at least 90% of the guests staying in those villas visit at least one theme park. That's still over 16,500 Fast Passes redeemed in a day.

During peak periods (spring break, Christmas week, New Year's Thanksgiving, 4th of July, Jersey Week, Marathon weekends, special event weekends like ESPN, Star Wars, and any other time of the year when the parks happen to see high attendance) the DVC villas could be at 85% of max occupancy and upward of 95% of those people are visiting the parks. That's nearly 20,000 Fast Passes.

And that's not even addressing the issue of unbalanced distribution of the passes among each of the 4 parks. What if it's a Star Wars Weekend and 10,000 DVC members converge on Hollywood Studios to use their FPs for Toy Story Mania? What if it's the Food and Wine fest and 8000 people head to Epcot to ride Soarin?

Of course these scenarios won't play out every day. But you better believe that Disney will consider all worst case scenarios before they would ever consider offering a benefit like this.

You can claim that a perk like this "wouldn't cost Disney anything", but tell that to the day guest who faces longer Standby times, later FP return times and a more rapid exhaustion of the daily supply of FPs at the premier attractions. When these people grow disgusted with their Disney experiences and start spending their dollars elsewhere, the perk absolutely has a cost associated with it.

[*Rooms will rarely fall below 50% of max because guests would then simply book a smaller villa (i.e. there aren't many people booking a Grand Villa for fewer than 6 occupants or a Two Bedroom for less than 4.) So if we assume that some of the villas will be 50% of max, some will be 100% of max and some will be in between, I think 75% is as good as figure as we will get for an average. ]

 

[Cubs Brian]

Many days, no the impact would not be so profound. But when you're looking at a situation like this, planners ABSOLUTELY must consider the worst case scenario. It doesn't matter if DVC villas only have registered guests equal to about 50% of their max occupancy on a Tuesday in September. What matters is how the parks would be impacted when the villas are at 90% occupancy on a Monday during Spring Break week.

I did some quick math to determine the max occupancy of all DVC villas at WDW. Among all resorts at WDW there are:

628 Dedicated Studio Villas
885 Dedicated 1B
2417 Dedicated and Lockoff 2B
106 Grand Villas

With max occupancy of 4, 5, 9 and 12 respectively, there could be as many as 24,538 DVC members staying in those villas at any time. So my initial number was actually low.

If I had to guess, I'd say that on a typical day DVC villas are around 75% of max occupancy* and that at least 90% of the guests staying in those villas visit at least one theme park. That's still over 16,500 Fast Passes redeemed in a day.

During peak periods (spring break, Christmas week, New Year's Thanksgiving, 4th of July, Jersey Week, Marathon weekends, special event weekends like ESPN, Star Wars, and any other time of the year when the parks happen to see high attendance) the DVC villas could be at 85% of max occupancy and upward of 95% of those people are visiting the parks. That's nearly 20,000 Fast Passes.

And that's not even addressing the issue of unbalanced distribution of the passes among each of the 4 parks. What if it's a Star Wars Weekend and 10,000 DVC members converge on Hollywood Studios to use their FPs for Toy Story Mania? What if it's the Food and Wine fest and 8000 people head to Epcot to ride Soarin?

Of course these scenarios won't play out every day. But you better believe that Disney will consider all worst case scenarios before they would ever consider offering a benefit like this.

You can claim that a perk like this "wouldn't cost Disney anything", but tell that to the day guest who faces longer Standby times, later FP return times and a more rapid exhaustion of the daily supply of FPs at the premier attractions. When these people grow disgusted with their Disney experiences and start spending their dollars elsewhere, the perk absolutely has a cost associated with it.

[*Rooms will rarely fall below 50% of max because guests would then simply book a smaller villa (i.e. there aren't many people booking a Grand Villa for fewer than 6 occupants or a Two Bedroom for less than 4.) So if we assume that some of the villas will be 50% of max, some will be 100% of max and some will be in between, I think 75% is as good as figure as we will get for an average. ]

You forgot to deduct the app.15% of the rooms are available to non DVC members for nightly rates to the gen. public so that brings occ. down to 20,857 potential fp's. At a 75% occ. for DVC members is 15643. Avg attendance is about 200,00 guest per day so an increase of about 7.5% is still high enough to make an impact.

 

[slappy magoo]

In in the interest of discussion board harmony, let's all agree, you're all equally huge. Now zip back up.

 

[Cubs Brian]

Sorry I just get upset when people feel they are "entitled" to things.

 

[DVCOwner]

Sorry I just get upset when people feel they are "entitled" to things.

My point is that while everyone seems to be getting some type of discount, the Disney Parks just seem to think they are "entitled" to have me visit every year and spend my money because I am a DVC member.

 

[slappy magoo]

My point is that while everyone seems to be getting some type of discount, the Disney Parks just seem to think they are "entitled" to have me visit every year and spend my money because I am a DVC member.

Technically, that's not a "point" so much as your perception. While it might not feel like you're saving money now, you will in the long run. If you feel like, in the short run, you're getting the short end of the stick, my recommendation would be to:
a: Take a long vacation, using points until you're out and then taking advantage of a promotion, or
b: Bank points this year, take advantage of a promotion, and then take a ginormous vacation next year OR
c: Use your points for a trip somewhere other than WDW.
There's no law that says you can't take advantage of promotions.

 

[Cubs Brian]

Technically, that's not a "point" so much as your perception. While it might not feel like you're saving money now, you will in the long run. If you feel like, in the short run, you're getting the short end of the stick, my recommendation would be to:
a: Take a long vacation, using points until you're out and then taking advantage of a promotion, or
b: Bank points this year, take advantage of a promotion, and then take a ginormous vacation next year OR
c: Use your points for a trip somewhere other than WDW.
There's no law that says you can't take advantage of promotions.

As usual, very well said.

 

[tjkraz]

You could also go back and remind yourself what DVC is truly costing. Work up a spreadsheet detailing the value of those points over the next 50 years (or whatever your term may be.)

The most simplistic approach is to take your initial purchase price and divide by the number of years you will own. Add that to the annual dues paid and you'll get a per point, per year dollar figure. For example:

If you bought Bay Lake Tower today at $110 per point, those points would cost you about $2.20 per year ($110 / 50 years.)

2010 dues at BLT are $3.78 per point. So your 2010 "cost" is $5.98 per point ($2.20 purchase plus $3.78 dues.)

To spend tomorrow night (4/14) in a Magic Kingdom View Studio at BLT would be 23 points. At $5.98 per point, the DVC member cost is $137 per night.

Now compare that to what a non-member is paying. The Rack Rate for a BLT MK View Studio on that date is $510 per night plus 12.5% resort tax for a total of $573 per night.

Current offers for cash guests are 30% off rack at Deluxe resorts. According to the figures above, DVC members are saving 76% off of rack.

That's a quick calculation and you'll certainly get more defensible numbers by accounting for interest paid on any loans, interest lost if you took the money out of an investment to purchase, etc. But even those factors aren't going to substantially close the gap between DVC prices and cash guest rates.

Also bear in mind that while Disney will eventually begin to reel-in the discounts to cash guests, we've locked in our DVC prices for years to come. When that happens DVC will prove to be an even better value.

However you slice it, non-members are paying FAR more to Disney on a per-trip basis. It's hard for me to feel slighted by DVC when that $137 per-night Studio rate is clearly less than $400 per night under a 30% discount.

 

[DVCOwner]

However you slice it, non-members are paying FAR more to Disney on a per-trip basis. It's hard for me to feel slighted by DVC when that $137 per-night Studio rate is clearly less than $400 per night under a 30% discount.

I have never felt slighted by DVC. I still feel that DVC members account for a great precentage of the daily gate and other sales at the Disney Parks. I will continue to go to Disney Parks year after year and DVC provides me a great opertunity to do that. Still all that said my view is that if I was running the Disney Park I would find some simple way to award DVC members for thier return bussiness. If Park management would investing a little now while times are tight; it would be repayed by DVC members in return visits and recommending Dsiney vacations and DVC pruchases to friends and family. The airlines have frequent flyer programs, grocery stores have loyalty cards, and hotels give free stays just for that resaon. Pay back those that come year after year and they will keep coming back and spending more money that the discounts offered would cost park management.

 

[Master Yoda]

I have never felt slighted by DVC. I still feel that DVC members account for a great precentage of the daily gate and other sales at the Disney Parks. I will continue to go to Disney Parks year after year and DVC provides me a great opertunity to do that. Still all that said my view is that if I was running the Disney Park I would find some simple way to award DVC members for thier return bussiness. If Park management would investing a little now while times are tight; it would be repayed by DVC members in return visits and recommending Dsiney vacations and DVC pruchases to friends and family. The airlines have frequent flyer programs, grocery stores have loyalty cards, and hotels give free stays just for that resaon. Pay back those that come year after year and they will keep coming back and spending more money that the discounts offered would cost park management.

Again all those things that you have mentioned will guide a persons financial purchases in the future and increase revenue. The airlines have frequent flyer programs to keep you flying on their particular airline when you could simply go with the lowest bidder. Grocery store cards and free hotel stays work in the same way. The key point is you as a consumer have a choice where to spend your money. With the DVC you have already spent your money by pre-purchasing resort stays for a half century. Extra incentives past what is in your contract will not generate enough extra money to justify offering them.

 

[tjkraz]

The airlines have frequent flyer programs, grocery stores have loyalty cards, and hotels give free stays just for that resaon. Pay back those that come year after year and they will keep coming back and spending more money that the discounts offered would cost park management.

The difference being that in all of the situations you mentioned, there are multiple vendors to choose from who provide the EXACT SAME PRODUCT. You could choose from a dozen different airlines to get from your home to Orlando. You could buy Budweiser and frozen peas from a dozen different grocery stores. And you can get pretty much the same hotel experience from Marriott, Hilton, Holiday Inn, etc. Loyalty programs are designed to sway those buying decisions to one vendor over another.

Disney offers a totally unique product and loyalty programs would have minimal impact on the bottom line. Until Disney starts losing significant business to the likes of Universal, Sea World, Busch Gardens or Legoland, they don't need rewards or loyalty programs to sway those buying decisions.

The problem with discounts and rewards is that it costs the company money right from the get-go. If Disney were to give DVC members a 10% dining discount at all locations, you've instantly cut into their profitability. Dining business would likely have to grow by 15-20% just to make up for the dollars sacrificed, and even more in order to turn a greater profit. You can claim that discounts would inspire people to spend more and Disney would win in the end, but I doubt the numbers bear that out. If lowering prices lead to higher sales and increased profitability, Disney would simply lower prices across the board.

It's also worth mentioning (again!) that DVC members DO get discounts. You seem to be downplaying this as if to say "I just want a little discount to make me feel appreciated by Disney", when in fact DVC members already HAVE a pretty nice roster of discounts which touch on all areas of the vacation experience (park tickets, dining, shopping, boating, golf, etc.)

 

[DisneyJoe]

IMHO, DVC IS Disney's loyalty program !!! They have allowed you to pre-purchase your vacations over the next few decades at a price that is locked in at a unbelievable rate.

 

[slappy magoo]

I have never felt slighted by DVC. I still feel that DVC members account for a great precentage of the daily gate and other sales at the Disney Parks.

Sure, but what they don't account for as much as a increase in the revenue of LODGING. Because they're DVC MEMBERS. Sure, some people pay cash to extend their vacation a few extra days, but if there were no DVC, those people would either spend more money for lodging, OR go to WDW less. The incentive for DVC is: Spend less money on "deluxe" accommodations."

We all understand what you're saying: DVC represents a value. But I want more. It's OK to want. I'm sure if WDW offered DVC members more perks we wouldn't refuse them. But we all bought into DVC feeling it was a good value as it stood in the first place. To be blunt, the way I figure it, knowing just HOW MANY BEAN COUNTERS Disney employs, they number-crunch every conceivable scenario to death, and if they thought offering DVC members more perks would result in either more DVC sales or DVC members spending more money in the long run, they'd do it.

And as I said before, there's no law that says you can't take advantage of a promotional offer...AND THEN use your DVC membership, provided your calendar and wallet can accommodate your needs. By all means, spend 5 nights at a moderate or deluxe using a free dining offer, and then move to the DVC leg of your vacation. Or bank points one year, borrow the next, and every 3 years, use 3 years of points for one mother of a blowout, and then use promotions the other 2 years. You'll still be taking advantage of the offers, and every 3 years you'll be living like such a king people who are staying in Values will hate you for your luxury.

 

[Daddyoh]

Thanks for the FEEDBACK

Thanks for all the feedback, didn't think I was going to generate any response. Obviously, some of us think alike. I even like better the idea of a new Mustang, my next rant will be directed to Ford.:ROFLOL::ROFLOL:But seriously We LOVE our Vacation Club and every thing that goes with it. The idea of additional perks is where I was attempting to direct my RANT. Some of the ideas that have been brought up seem very appealing especially a parks perk!
It amazez me how passionate we all feel about Disney regardless of our different feelings. All the ideas about banking points, huge vacations, taking advantage of deals when you can are all great ideas and we have considered those very ideas. But, you know what, I wouldn't give up my Beach Club Villa for anything. Maybe, I'm just feeling the crunch that we probably all are at this time. We work hard and work for our vacation, we aren't lucky enough to be "BAILED OUT" as the big guys have. I don't mean that MICKEY has to bail me out, but just sweeten the pot once and while rather then subtract perks which has happened, though when we signed up we had so I guess what I'm saying is BALANCE the scales. Once again thanks for all the feedback and reading this RANT:wave:

 

[buffyscrubs]

we all know people would largely gravitate to the same attractions--Toy Story Mania, Soarin, Everest, MK mountains. Try explaining to locals, passholders, and every single day guest that it's fair to give DVC members this privilege while they face longer standby lines and later FP return times.

 

[Computer Magic]

My point is that while everyone seems to be getting some type of discount, the Disney Parks just seem to think they are "entitled" to have me visit every year and spend my money because I am a DVC member.

You are under Disney contract you are "entitled" to pay the yearly dues...

Remember: Disney already have you every year. They need to keep other coming into the park.

 

[chwilson88]

Sorry I just get upset when people feel they are "entitled" to things.

None of us feel entitled...I think you're wrong there. Just expressing some thoughts that it'd be nice to have some more perks that's all. Simple as that. If I never get another perk, so be it, I'll still go to Disney and still love DVC. No big deal.

 

[chwilson88]

In in the interest of discussion board harmony, let's all agree, you're all equally huge. Now zip back up.

Very well played.