DVC Member needs more !

WDWLOVER1957

Active Member
Didn't someone show that DVC members end up with 76% off rack rates?

42% plus free food may work out to be close to 76% off rack rates, the choice is yours.

So your choice is have DVC and pay dues at 76% off, or pay for 42% and free dining and save 76%, but we still have to pay dues, so its not so much of a choice is it, thats why I say its not really worth owning in the UK anymore.
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
I do not think that all discounts "cost" Disney money. Last December when checking out of the Boardwalk Villas I was given a coupon for 20% off at the large Disney store in Downtown Disney. I was not planning on stopping there before heading home. I had visited earlier and there where some items I wanted to purchase, but the price was a little to high. Due to the coupon I made the trip to the store and ended up buying about $200 worth of stuff. I got $40.00 off and felt great about the deal I got. I do not think that this cost Disney any money at all and I do think that it adds to the bottom line. I am sure they still made money on my purchase. The key to Disney Parks offering DVC members a "discount" (again not DVC playing for them) is that it has to be something that brings in additional revenue that they would not get without offering the discount. So using the example that someone suggested of offering free park hopping option to DVC members and guest, if this increase the total number of park passes people purchase, than it will not cost Disney anything and will increase the bottom line.
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
I have said serveral times that I think DVC is a great deal and it is not that I am not happy. Still with all the discounts that Disney is offering everyone to get them to come to WDW, I think they should award those that are return year after year. I think that Disney Parks look at DVC members as cash cows and think that no matter how we a treated we will continue to come back. If you remember when Disney first started offering meal packages for those that stayed on park, DVC where not included. It took a lot of DVC members calling Disney to get them to change the rules.
 

Lynne M

Active Member
I think they should award those that are return year after year.

And they do. AP discounts, restaurant discounts, pool-hopping privileges, free internet, golf discounts, tour discounts, etc. Not to mention the fact that we save hundreds of dollars a night on our lodging. All the time. For the next several decades. Whether or not the general public is getting any discounts at all.

Discounts for the general public are cyclical. When tourism is down, you see more discounts (like we see now). When it's up, there are a lot fewer discounts. I've owned DVC since 2001. When FL tourism dried up after 9/11, there were all kinds of discounts, and DVC members went "waaa, Disney loves them more than us."

Then, when people started traveling again, the discounts were few and far between. There was a period where there weren't any AP discounts - for months. People were in shock. The DVCers patted themselves on the back at how smart they were to buy in, and the AP holders went "waaa, Disney doesn't love us anymore."

People are traveling more again. Disney has already publicly stated that they're going to be cutting back on the discounts. And we'll still be saving all that money.

I think that Disney Parks look at DVC members as cash cows and think that no matter how we a treated we will continue to come back.

This is where I'm baffled. "No matter how we are treated?" How are we being treated badly? We signed a contract that says we give Disney X dollars, and we get X things in return. Are they not abiding by the contract? Are we not getting things that are promised in the contract? If so, I haven't noticed.

There's an emotional component to this whole discussion that I simply don't get. It's a business relationship, pure and simple. It's like leasing a car. Do people who lease cars get upset when the dealership offers a 0% interest deal for customers who are buying instead of leasing? Do they want the dealership to give them free gas so they feel appreciated? Why is DVC held to a different standard?
 

tjkraz

Active Member
While I see your point, it truly "cost Disney nothing" it would cut down some on the revenue bottom line. However, it adds zero to cost! Free dining cost Disney b/c it raises how much money they have to spend in food and man hours. That is my elementary explanation of what I meant. All promos or perks change the bottom line for Disney, and I think we all understand that on this board.

The park hopper feature definitely fills a role. It's purpose is to make people pay a premium rate for visiting more than one park in a single day.

Without the park hopper feature, you need 4 separate tickets in order to ride Space Mountain, Soarin, Toy Story Mania and Everest in a single day. With the park hopper feature, you could do it all with just one ticket but Disney makes guests pay extra for that privilege.

So yeah, it really can cost them money if people change their travel habits (days in the theme parks) based upon what they can do with their ticket.

Your next point of "Disney Vacation Development" reimbursing Disney Parks for the AP discount ... well, they could do the same for the free park hopper upgrade.

Yes, they could. But there is little ancillary benefit to DVD (i.e. less incentive to make more trips and add more points.)

Also, how many DVC owners actually buy a regular ticket and pay to add the park hopper option?

Your guess is as good as mine, but I'm not sure how relevant that is to the discussion.

I bet people that use a park hopper actually spend more time in the parks. For example, after starting the day in AK I bet a lot of people take the evening off away from a park, but if the park hopper option was included DVC members might go into Epcot for supper, or the MK for Wishes and a sweet snack. Disney might actually break even or increase the bottom line by making this a free option for DVC owners. Wost case, it would not decreasing revenue by the full $52/ticket.

That's the easy argument to make. "Well, people would spend more on ____ if you gave them a discount on ___."

Reality is that Disney knows exactly what drives buying decisions. If they thought giving away free park hopper features would lead to more dinners at Nine Dragons, they would have done it years ago. And not just for DVC members.

As for your Primary Goal point 2 (To give prospective members a bit of an added discount to perhaps sway a purchase decision.), this perk should not sway anyone's decision about DVC. It is not a guaranteed benefit. It can be taken away at anytime. The promos they run like a free Disney Cruise and double points this year, are things that sway purchase decisions.

I agree that it SHOULDN'T be part of the purchase decision, but you better believe people view it as a perk of membership and sales Guides reinforce that viewpoint.

I can see how the AP discount could encourage more visits or more creative trip planning. But free hopper upgrade could do the same. If you just went to Disney last year, and you only needed 25 more points to go again this year for 4 nights. Knowing that you could do two parks in one day for "free" might be just the thing to convince you to buy 25 more points per year or to pay Disney the new $15/point for this year. I will agree that it might not be as strong of an argument because less people will probably be in this situation, but it could happen.

No, not a very strong argument.

When you have that AP in hand, it's pretty easy to convince yourself to borrow a few points and take just one extra trip before the AP expires. After all, the trip is virtually free--no cost for room, no cost for tickets.

A couple years worth of borrowing and suddenly that 100-pt add-on sounds pretty good.

You don't get that benefit with MYW tickets. People buy what they need, when they need it. Or they think long-term and get non-expiring tickets, and then get very stingy with how those park days are used.

Giving folks complimentary ability to enter multiple parks in a single day means that they load up on rides one day--perhaps ignoring the restaurants and shops altogether--and hit the pool the next day rather than burning another admission day.

I do not think that all discounts "cost" Disney money. Last December when checking out of the Boardwalk Villas I was given a coupon for 20% off at the large Disney store in Downtown Disney. I was not planning on stopping there before heading home. I had visited earlier and there where some items I wanted to purchase, but the price was a little to high. Due to the coupon I made the trip to the store and ended up buying about $200 worth of stuff. I got $40.00 off and felt great about the deal I got. I do not think that this cost Disney any money at all and I do think that it adds to the bottom line. I am sure they still made money on my purchase. The key to Disney Parks offering DVC members a "discount" (again not DVC playing for them) is that it has to be something that brings in additional revenue that they would not get without offering the discount. So using the example that someone suggested of offering free park hopping option to DVC members and guest, if this increase the total number of park passes people purchase, than it will not cost Disney anything and will increase the bottom line.

You need to think outside of your own experiences.

If Disney were to give DVC members a standard discount of 20% off, suddenly they are discounting thousands and thousands of dollars worth of merchandise which people would have otherwise bought at full price.

Consider this:

Disney sells 100 t-shirts per day at $25 each. Those shirts actually cost $10 each to manufacture and sell, so their profit margin is $15 apiece. On 100 shirts sold they make $1500.

When you discount the item by 20%, the price drops to $20. Disney still has to spend $10 each to produce the item, so now their profit is only $10 per unit. Instead of selling 100 shirts to earn $1500 in profit, now they need to sell 150 shirts at the lower profit margin.

Sure there are a lot of people (just like yourself) thinking "nice job, Disney...I never would have bought that shirt if you hadn't lowered the price." But is that group of consumers enough to make up for the lower profit margin? In this example, Disney needs to sell 50% more shirts just to make the SAME profit. Is a 20% discount really enough to grow the business by 50%? I doubt it.

Having little one-off sales and coupons like the one you received does have its place. In your case, it was enough of a surprise to convince you to make a $200 impulse purchase.

But when you put a permanent discount program in place, it changes spending habits--usually for the worse.
 

WDWLOVER1957

Active Member
You need to think outside of your own experiences.

If Disney were to give DVC members a standard discount of 20% off, suddenly they are discounting thousands and thousands of dollars worth of merchandise which people would have otherwise bought at full price.

Consider this:

Disney sells 100 t-shirts per day at $25 each. Those shirts actually cost $10 each to manufacture and sell, so their profit margin is $15 apiece. On 100 shirts sold they make $1500.

When you discount the item by 20%, the price drops to $20. Disney still has to spend $10 each to produce the item, so now their profit is only $10 per unit. Instead of selling 100 shirts to earn $1500 in profit, now they need to sell 150 shirts at the lower profit margin.

So 100% profit is not enough, no wonder everthing is so expensive in Disney. you dont work for the mouse by any chance?
 

tjkraz

Active Member
So 100% profit is not enough, no wonder everthing is so expensive in Disney. you dont work for the mouse by any chance?

My numbers are for illustration only but I doubt they are very far off.

And let's not be naive, here. When consumers pay $6 for a box of popcorn at the movie theater, $200 for a pair of designer jeans or $250 for an "authentic" NFL jersey, there is substantial profit built into the prices. Prices are based upon factors like the "what" and "where" of the purchase and brand names associated with the item.

Disney isn't the only retailer charging $25 for a t-shirt or $50 for a sweatshirt or $4 for a refrigerator magnet.
 

Lynne M

Active Member
So 100% profit is not enough, no wonder everthing is so expensive in Disney. you dont work for the mouse by any chance?

Good heavens, someone states a basic economic principle, and they must be "working for the mouse?"

No, 100% profit isn't always enough. In our economic system, any publicly held company's goal is to make the maximum profit they can. Not 'enough' profit, but the maximum possible. Ever heard the term "charging what the market will bear?" That means that you set your prices at the highest possible amount that people are willing to pay. Disney charges $25 for a t-shirt and $4 for a refrigerator magnet because people buy them at those prices. Why on earth would they charge less than $25 for a t-shirt, if they're selling like hotcakes at $25?

They want to make money. A lot of it. All successful businesses do.
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
Good heavens, someone states a basic economic principle, and they must be "working for the mouse?"

No, 100% profit isn't always enough. In our economic system, any publicly held company's goal is to make the maximum profit they can. Not 'enough' profit, but the maximum possible. Ever heard the term "charging what the market will bear?" That means that you set your prices at the highest possible amount that people are willing to pay. Disney charges $25 for a t-shirt and $4 for a refrigerator magnet because people buy them at those prices. Why on earth would they charge less than $25 for a t-shirt, if they're selling like hotcakes at $25?

They want to make money. A lot of it. All successful businesses do.

Here is where your example goes wrong. Right now people going to WDW are not willing to pay full price for a lot of things that Disney wants to sell (tickets, meals, hotel rooms, and in your example T-Shirts). So Disney is offering discounts above the normal to almost everyone and anyone willing to visit and stay at WDW. The main goal at this time is just to keep poeple coming to the parks. I think that everyone that is visiting WDW this year is on some type of Discount except for those of us that are members of DVC.

It is not that I am unhappy with DVC. It is not that I think that Disney owes me something. It is not that I will not come if they do not offer some type of discount. I just think that Disney Park management feels that the DVC members are going to come anyway so they do not have to do anything above what is already offered.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
It is not that I am unhappy with DVC. It is not that I think that Disney owes me something. It is not that I will not come if they do not offer some type of discount. I just think that Disney Park management feels that the DVC members are going to come anyway so they do not have to do anything above what is already offered.

You are correct that they think that. And they are not wrong.

What are you getting at?

:shrug:
 

WDWLOVER1957

Active Member
Good heavens, someone states a basic economic principle, and they must be "working for the mouse?"

No, 100% profit isn't always enough. In our economic system, any publicly held company's goal is to make the maximum profit they can. Not 'enough' profit, but the maximum possible. Ever heard the term "charging what the market will bear?" That means that you set your prices at the highest possible amount that people are willing to pay. Disney charges $25 for a t-shirt and $4 for a refrigerator magnet because people buy them at those prices. Why on earth would they charge less than $25 for a t-shirt, if they're selling like hotcakes at $25?

They want to make money. A lot of it. All successful businesses do.
Interesting you say they are selling like hotcakes, yet Disney itself says mechandise spending is down. the working for the mouse was tongue in cheek.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
Interesting you say they are selling like hotcakes, yet Disney itself says mechandise spending is down. the working for the mouse was tongue in cheek.

"Merchandise spending is down" = They USED to sell like hotcakes stuffed with hundred dollar bills. Now, they just sell like hotcakes.
 

tjkraz

Active Member
Interesting you say they are selling like hotcakes, yet Disney itself says mechandise spending is down.

I don't know that Disney has specifically said that merchandise spending is down. The measure they typically report is average guest spending per day which includes merchandise, dining, recreation and even hotel rates.

The discounting to hotel rates is what's primarily blamed for lower guest spending figures.

Nevertheless, based upon coupons given out and other discounts Disney has tried, we can probably assume that merchandise sales is down a bit. And the "surprised discount" approach they are using typically does a better job of increasing spending rather than implementing blanket discount programs.
 

DisneyBunny

Active Member
Future discounts, perks and the like aside, I'd just be happy if they KEEP the perks they currently have. Like how Valet Parking went bye-bye. Really? Was that really worth it? Yeah, I won't miss it much, but I hate how they slowly take things away.. so slowly that you don't realize just how many cutbacks there are. :shrug:
 

tjkraz

Active Member
...I hate how they slowly take things away.. so slowly that you don't realize just how many cutbacks there are. :shrug:

This is probably the mindset that most restricts any growth in member perks.

I've been a member for about 8 years now and there is no question in my mind that the perks are better than they were when we joined. No the list of perks hasn't grown by leaps and bounds but the current list is still an improvement.

Here are a few additions off the top of my head:

* Free Internet
* AP Discount (much more useful than the 10% LOS discount, IMO)
* Discounts for MNSSHP and MVMCP tickets
* Members included in new/refurbished attraction previews
* No peak season pricing on Dining Plans
* Downtown Disney shopping events
* Broadway ticket discounts

Plus other things like discounts on the Family Fun magazine, free admission to the PGA tour event at WDW, discounts for sporting events like the Braves' spring training, etc.

We lost the discount at The Disney Store when they first sold the chain a few years back, but we gained a discount at the web store DisneyShopping.com. That one is pretty much a wash.

So, I really don't get the perception that they "slowly take things away."
 

chwilson88

Member
I don't know about other DVC members, but those discounts you listed are crap. To me, for my family in particular, they are not useful at all. This is part of the reason some folks on here are tossing around ideas about adding other types of perks, that may be more useful or desirable to them.
 

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