Dumbo and Peter Pan rides set for removal?

[Californian Elitist]

The offensive content in Song of the South is not depicted in Splash Mountain either. Just sayin'.

Dumbo hasn't been blackballed by the company and isn't constantly linked to racism like Song of the South is.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

A reminder that plenty of people walk into Disneyland having no idea what IASW, Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, etc. are and still manage to enjoy them just the same.

Dumbo is a park icon and will remain a park icon whether or not anyone cares about the actual film (because these parks, when done well, have value far beyond which IPs or flavor of the decades they feature at any given moment). There's a reason it's one of only a few rides that's in every single castle park (and I would imagine it's not entirely just the "cuz it's cheap" reasons that keeps bringing copies of WDW's Pooh into the world) and it shows up in pretty much every park commercial.

I mean, let's be honest. How many people that walk into the parks that don't have children have watched any of the movies that are the basis for the dark rides in Fantasyland recently? Probably very few. Yet they still enjoy the attractions. How many have seen Roger Rabbit recently?

And really, what incentive do they have to remove it or change it? They're not going to fit something more elaborate there. It's iconic. There's no point in replacing the Dumbos with, I don't know, flying carpets. For what benefit? For whose?

Sometimes I agree with you, and then sometimes you say things like this and I wonder if you've ever actually been to the parks at all. I'm not pretending that Dumbo's high art, but when you just are so cavalier about throwing out things like Dumbo, Pirates, and Mansion because they're not flavor of the moment...maybe you should be going to some other theme park.

I know you're replying to @el_super, but my reasoning is that Dumbo is the most easily retheme able out of all the Fantasyland dark rides. It might be too sacred now, but if the current Disney is willing to replace the Pinocchio murals made for the parks in Village Haus with sloppily edited stock art of Beauty and the Beast characters and replace The Old Mill miniature that's been at Disneyland since 1956 with Arendale, what would Disney be willing to do in 2035 or 2050 with something like Dumbo. It could easily be rethemed to whatever movie with flying things that they have at the moment. I wouldn't like it at all, but I could see it easily happening the road that Disney is going down.

 

[Brer Panther]

Dumbo hasn't been blackballed by the company and isn't constantly linked to racism like Song of the South is.

And yet, Splash Mountain survived for years despite being "linked to" racism. Maybe because in the past, people actually understood that the ride and the movie were separate things.

 

[SuddenStorm]

And yet, Splash Mountain survived for years despite being "linked to" racism. Maybe because in the past, people actually understood that the ride and the movie were separate things.

I just watched a ride through of Disneyland's Splash Mountain. Such a delightful ride- it's really a darn shame it's going away.

I really think Disney should have produced animated shorts for Disney+ with the Br'er characters, adapting the folk tales to be acceptably told for a modern audience and helping to detach the characters from Song of the South.

Interestingly, the tar baby is present in Who Framed Roger Rabbit but we haven't banned that movie or ride yet.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I know you're replying to @el_super, but my reasoning is that Dumbo is the most easily retheme able out of all the Fantasyland dark rides. It might be too sacred now, but if the current Disney is willing to replace the Pinocchio murals made for the parks in Village Haus with sloppily edited stock art of Beauty and the Beast characters and replace The Old Mill miniature that's been at Disneyland since 1956 with Arendale, what would Disney be willing to do in 2035 or 2050 with something like Dumbo. It could easily be rethemed to whatever movie with flying things that they have at the moment. I wouldn't like it at all, but I could see it easily happening the road that Disney is going down.

I guess my question would be about the cost/benefit for such a retheme, even when Disney seems to be throwing money at retheming projects. I imagine even current Disney would look at that, shrug, and say it doesn't need fixing. Perhaps if we get to a point where the ride doesn't feature in nearly every commercial then they might change it. But Dumbo is about as well-appointed as such a ride could possibly be. Could Disney be Disney and out-garish it? I suppose, but, again, to whose benefit? The company may turn against Dumbo in the future, but it certainly hasn't now, despite what some internet clickbait articles might think. Dumbo is still very much a celebrated, iconic movie, and until that changes, I can't imagine the ride going anywhere.

I think the Pinocchio restaurant is a bit of a different situation. The Village Haus (or whatever the Disneyland version was called) was beautifully themed and iconic in the sense that there have been a lot of similar restaurants built in other parks, but it wasn't iconic in the way that, say, the Blue Bayou or the Plaza Inn are iconic. The food was at best passable theme park fare, and there wasn't anything notable there. The setting was *well done*, but I'd argue didn't reach icon status.

Similarly, I don't know that, for most guests, most of the settings within Storybook Land are iconic, and personally if one of the set pieces *had* to leave to fit in Frozen, I'm happy it was The Old Mill (a short that, while well done, no one except super geeks are familiar with, represented by a comparatively basic and simple miniature) and not, say, Pinocchio's Italian Village or the scene from Snow White. Tony Baxter himself has gone on record defending such changes, as small ways to evolve the park in a way that doesn't really hurt anything. For me, that particular change is a net upgrade (though perhaps they could tone down the "Let It Go" that still plays from within that set; I imagine 90% of the world is over that song by now).

Just my two cents. Granted, I'm not a local as many people here are, and invariably that skews my interpretation of what is and is not a sacred Disneyland space or artifact.

 

[Californian Elitist]

And yet, Splash Mountain survived for years despite being "linked to" racism. Maybe because in the past, people actually understood that the ride and the movie were separate things.

Yeah, and times have changed in the last 30+ years. Many things linked to racism have survived for years. It is what it is.

This thread isn’t about Splash though.

 

[D.Silentu]

I'm pretty sure that Peter Pan will eventually get changed to remove the Indian Village, if it hasn't happened already.

IF they ever change Peter Pan, it would probably be limited only to the scenes with the Indian characters, as that is the reason the film has proven controversial.

I agree, and feel it's worth remembering that the Indians occupy this tiny mesa in a blink and you miss it moment. In fact, the most notable thing about the scene for me is that when the Chief speaks his volume is far louder than anything else in the ride! All this is to say that it's a very small moment in an over cramped ride that needs to efficiently use every bit of space available. Sourcing a story like Peter Pan, they can easily find better uses for that area.

 

[TP2000]

Dumbo hasn't been blackballed by the company and isn't constantly linked to racism like Song of the South is.

Dumbo hasn't been blackballed by the company.... yet.

I just watched a ride through of Disneyland's Splash Mountain. Such a delightful ride- it's really a darn shame it's going away.

I really think Disney should have produced animated shorts for Disney+ with the Br'er characters, adapting the folk tales to be acceptably told for a modern audience and helping to detach the characters from Song of the South.

Interestingly, the tar baby is present in Who Framed Roger Rabbit but we haven't banned that movie or ride yet.

I don't remember a tar baby in Roger Rabbit, but it's been a very long time since I've seen that movie. I still think the Roger Rabbit ride is hysterical because it's gone this long without censorship on its most famous leading lady. This is a children's park!

 

[TP2000]

I agree, and feel it's worth remembering that the Indians occupy this tiny mesa in a blink and you miss it moment. In fact, the most notable thing about the scene for me is that when the Chief speaks his volume is far louder than anything else in the ride! All this is to say that it's a very small moment in an over cramped ride that needs to efficiently use every bit of space available. Sourcing a story like Peter Pan, they can easily find better uses for that area.

Agreed.

It literally takes 3 seconds to fly by the Indians on their little cliff, and there's so much going on in that frenzied ride that they are really only noticeable, much less memorable, if your ship flies past them when the Chief happens to say "Ugh!".

 

[Brer Panther]

I just watched a ride through of Disneyland's Splash Mountain. Such a delightful ride- it's really a darn shame it's going away.

I really think Disney should have produced animated shorts for Disney+ with the Br'er characters, adapting the folk tales to be acceptably told for a modern audience and helping to detach the characters from Song of the South.

Interestingly, the tar baby is present in Who Framed Roger Rabbit but we haven't banned that movie or ride yet.

I'm not defending Song of the South when I defend Splash Mountain, but I don't think it's fair to say Disney shouldn't be allowed to do ANYTHING with the Brers simply because of Song of the South. That's like saying that Disney shouldn't be allowed to do anything with Mickey and Goofy because of shorts like Mickey in Arabia, Californy 'er Bust and Mickey's Mellerdrammer.

I still think the Roger Rabbit ride is hysterical because it's gone this long without censorship on its most famous leading lady. This is a children's park!

That reminds me, didn't Robert Zemeckis say a few years ago that Disney hates Jessica Rabbit?

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Dumbo hasn't been blackballed by the company.... yet.

I don't remember a tar baby in Roger Rabbit, but it's been a very long time since I've seen that movie. I still think the Roger Rabbit ride is hysterical because it's gone this long without censorship on its most famous leading lady. This is a children's park!

Men like Jessica Rabbit, women tend to like Jessica Rabbit and I'm sure somehow she's a Gay Icon, so she's got her bases covered. The only types that would complain about something like this are joyless groups of people I'd never want to be around with nothing better to do than find things to complain about, sign petitions and protest crap. Oh, wait. Yep, I guess she's doomed!

 

[el_super]

I guess my question would be about the cost/benefit for such a retheme, even when Disney seems to be throwing money at retheming projects. I imagine even current Disney would look at that, shrug, and say it doesn't need fixing. Perhaps if we get to a point where the ride doesn't feature in nearly every commercial then they might change it. But Dumbo is about as well-appointed as such a ride could possibly be. Could Disney be Disney and out-garish it? I suppose, but, again, to whose benefit? The company may turn against Dumbo in the future, but it certainly hasn't now, despite what some internet clickbait articles might think. Dumbo is still very much a celebrated, iconic movie, and until that changes, I can't imagine the ride going anywhere.

Yeah, near term I think it's safe. But 20 to 30 years from now? The ROI might not be there to do a complete re-theme on it's own, but if at some point in the distant future, the ride vehicles and mechanics needed to be replaced, it would tip the balance in favor of re-theming it to another property.

I think the bigger point here is not to assume that anything is sacred and can't be touched. There are bigger things in this world than a spinning elephant ride.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Dumbo hasn't been blackballed by the company.... yet.

At this point, the odds of that happening are slim to none.

 

[_caleb]

Disney putting the disclaimer and delisting it for children on Disney+, means that it won't be readily available for children today to watch. That could impact relevancy in the future. In a couple generations, park guests may be largely unaware of who or what a DUMBO is.

How does changing the rating of the films make them any less “readily accessible” for children than the days of having to go to Blockbuster and pay to rent it? And don’t be confused—the film is still available on DVD, Blu-Ray, and on Disney+ under a regular (non-child-locked) account. It‘s no less accessible than it ever was.

 

[Darkbeer1]

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[el_super]

How does changing the rating of the films make them any less “readily accessible” for children than the days of having to go to Blockbuster and pay to rent it?

Because there is now a vault of content children can watch without the added hassle of asking the parents to watch it/going to Blockbuster. Why would children ask for it, if they have no idea it exists?

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I know there are no announced plans, but Disney literally has claimed these movies are offensive to cultures, and don't allow children to watch them.

They are in a children's land. Im unsure what this bodes for attractions of Dumbo and Peter Pan in the future.

I just don't get it! I tried to think of what was so upsetting and "racist" in Peter pan, and all I could even think of was when the boys dressed up like Indians while playing!????
I told my grandson this and he just shook his head in disbelief and laughed. BTW, he is a native American and he thinks it's ridiculous.
If they wanted to, disney could go back on all old movies and cartoons and find "something" upsetting about them. The cancel culture is going too far, IMO. And it is MO, so no flaming please!

 

[Communicora]

The offensive content in Song of the South is not depicted in Splash Mountain either. Just sayin'.

Yes but that film isn't behind an age gate, it's a film they have actively suppressed for many years.

 

[MikeN]

Well what are we going to do when the "Cancel Culture" finds out that Mickey Mouse used to dress in "Blackface"? As an example: Mickey's Mellerdrammer from 1933. So instead of worrying about Indians, Chinese caricatures, and some episodes of The Muppet Show, we should be concerned that Mickey will soon have to be sacrificed as well. Where is the line in the sand that denotes when enough is enough.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I just don't get it! I tried to think of what was so upsetting and "racist" in Peter pan, and all I could even think of was when the boys dressed up like Indians while playing!????
I told my grandson this and he just shook his head in disbelief and laughed. BTW, he is a native American and he thinks it's ridiculous.
If they wanted to, disney could go back on all old movies and cartoons and find "something" upsetting about them. The cancel culture is going too far, IMO. And it is MO, so no flaming please!

If you are not Native American/Indigenous/American Indian, it’s not up to you to decide what racist or problematic about Native/Indigenous/American Indian representation.