DTD: The hits just keep on coming...

[lazyboy97o]

Didn't a store similar to this in Disneyland's DTD clsoe recently too?? I never did understand how a store sych as Starbillas stayed in business. I enjoyed walkng through there but the prices for things, IMO, was way too expensive. With these closings, I'd like to think there is a plan, but, we all know Disney doesn't have one.

Yes, the store at Disneyland's Downtown Disney is closed. I think the entire company may be bust. The only locations, according to their website, were at the the Downtown Disneys. The Anaheim location is even listed as still being open.

How is that going to solve the macro problem of DTD as a whole?

While it would definately garner the good will of the fan base, it won't replace the revenue lost by Virgin and the potential revenue lost by Starbilla's.

I fully support the reopening of the Adventure's Club, but to assume what is, in essence, a dinner show that people have annual passes for is not the silver bullet to cure DTD woe's.

Downtown Disney has to be looked at for what it is, a mall. Empty space is like a cancer to a mall, especially when you're missing anchors. The Virgin Megastore was an anchor, it was big and brought people to it. Even Starabilias was a bit of an anchor in that it drew people to it, and thus the shops around it.

Disney has pretty much written a death sentence for most of Downtown Disney. In order to fill the spaces in the new voids Disney is going to have to make generous offers to potential tenants, or come up with its own draws. Reopening parts of Pleasure Island would help to bring people west, and at least there would be something besides empty buildings. Downtown Disney's visitors not being frequently recurring and mostly captive will probably exacerbate the problem. These are people who only know Downtown Disney by maps or memory. If by maps, they are seeing the area beyond the Disney store dominated Marketplace become more sparse. If by memory they are only being disappointed and may decide not to bother with a potentially fruitless trek the next time around.

 

[jt04]

Yes, the store at Disneyland's Downtown Disney is closed. I think the entire company may be bust. The only locations, according to their website, were at the the Downtown Disneys. The Anaheim location is even listed as still being open.


Downtown Disney has to be looked at for what it is, a mall. Empty space is like a cancer to a mall, especially when you're missing anchors. The Virgin Megastore was an anchor, it was big and brought people to it. Even Starabilias was a bit of an anchor in that it drew people to it, and thus the shops around it.

Disney has pretty much written a death sentence for most of Downtown Disney. In order to fill the spaces in the new voids Disney is going to have to make generous offers to potential tenants, or come up with its own draws. Reopening parts of Pleasure Island would help to bring people west, and at least there would be something besides empty buildings. Downtown Disney's visitors not being frequently recurring and mostly captive will probably exacerbate the problem. These are people who only know Downtown Disney by maps or memory. If by maps, they are seeing the area beyond the Disney store dominated Marketplace become more sparse. If by memory they are only being disappointed and may decide not to bother with a potentially fruitless trek the next time around.

I don't think you could be more wrong. If anything DTD is an anti-mall. And the last thing it needs is "anchor" stores. It needs to be and will be a place where people (visitors and locals) can experience a collection of venues in one location they can't anywhere else.


4000 Posts! Whew!

 

[hokielutz]

I agree with you about third party vendors to an extent.......

As for McD's, let's just hope the rumor is true. Nothing against them but it just doesn't "fit" with where DTD is heading.

3rd party vendors can be a great thing to have when the Economy is rockin and rollin..... but when in the tank, and businesses close locations, it can cause a serious revenue problems and a curse to the property owners... and DTD may be slipping into that not so happy hole.

As for McDs, I think its location in the DTD Marketplace is a correct fit with its theming, but the addition of more restaurant choices could spell the end of the higher profits from each of those locations.

Despite what DTD mgmt says, I think the restaurant business in Disney is approaching saturation, and the visiting guests are not looking for additional sit-down restaurants to dine at. It may be getting into overkill now.

 

[NMBC1993]

guests are not looking for additional sit-down restaurants to dine at.

What are you talking about? I mean so many people said they wanted more dining in those surveys, so it must be true:lol:

 

[jakeman]

Despite what DTD mgmt says, I think the restaurant business in Disney is approaching saturation, and the visiting guests are not looking for additional sit-down restaurants to dine at. It may be getting into overkill now.

I think the obvious locations are getting saturated. Some of the best restaurants on property are tucked away in resorts. I won't even begin to claim to know how to promote these, but if there was a way to distribute the dining crowds to there it would do the whole system some good.

They need some more high quality QSR locations like they had from 1998-2002ish.

 

[jonnyc]

Why replace Cirque with a broadway show, when you could have both? There is so much freespace now with the PI Closure, surely they would have room for it, and i'm sure it would constantly draw.

 

[jt04]

3rd party vendors can be a great thing to have when the Economy is rockin and rollin..... but when in the tank, and businesses close locations, it can cause a serious revenue problems and a curse to the property owners... and DTD may be slipping into that not so happy hole.

As for McDs, I think its location in the DTD Marketplace is a correct fit with its theming, but the addition of more restaurant choices could spell the end of the higher profits from each of those locations.

Despite what DTD mgmt says, I think the restaurant business in Disney is approaching saturation, and the visiting guests are not looking for additional sit-down restaurants to dine at. It may be getting into overkill now.

Don't fall for the spin. While I personally wouldn't mind seeing the AC and CW stay it isn't necessary for the ultimate success of DTD. Disney will always have enough of a mix to survive the slow times and when the economy recovers a lot of vendors will be kicking themselves for leaving. I think it is also quite possible that Disney is the one not renewing contracts because they have long range plans for those spaces, not the other way around. That people are seriously predicting the demise of DTD is laughable. I mean think about it.

 

[jt04]

Why replace Cirque with a broadway show, when you could have both? There is so much freespace now with the PI Closure, surely they would have room for it, and i'm sure it would constantly draw.

I would imagine it is one or the other as neither would want to compete against the other. It is quite possible it is in the Cirque contract too. Who knows?

 

[scotth1224]

My wife and I were commenting on the state of DTD last week when we were there. We both love the marketplace side but we dont even go to the westside anymore, no reason too. We did walk over to see Characters in flight, but as it was closed due to weather, we turned back around and never looked back.
Someone earlier mentioned Citywalk, despite what the Universal haters say, Citywalk is vibrant, exciting, entertaining, and makes you want to linger. DTD Westside is a long corridor full of not very good, some even down right pathetic, restaurants. Shops I dont care about...Magic tricks and magnets???? Cmon...and where does it lead but to Cirque....Which is a good show but after seeing it once 5 years ago, i have no interest in repeating. Even Disney Quest is old and tired, not to mention way overpriced.
I don't claim to have the answers to DTD's woes....but I have been coming to Disney every year for a while now, and drop lots of $$$ in Marketplace and never spend a dime in Westside. I dont think I am the only one!

 

[NMBC1993]

Don't fall for the spin. While I personally wouldn't mind seeing the AC and CW stay it isn't necessary for the ultimate success of DTD. Disney will always have enough of a mix to survive the slow times and when the economy recovers a lot of vendors will be kicking themselves for leaving. I think it is also quite possible that Disney is the one not renewing contracts because they have long range plans for those spaces, not the other way around. That people are seriously predicting the demise of DTD is laughable. I mean think about it.

Right because it's been 8 months and all they have done is remove everything from the inside of the clubs and put up the amazing "celebrate tonight" kiddy party. I'm sure they are just biding their time and are going to pull out something to impress us....I mean they told us so when Kevin Lansberry gave that interview when they told everyone they are closing PI. Basically it's all here, the balloon, the South America restaurant, and the previous restaurant updates. Face it, they are out of ideas and would gladly put an Outback Steakhouse in Rock and Roll Beach Club if they could.

 

[GothMickey]

I don't think we can blame EVERYTHING on the current economic conditions hitting third party vendors. True, a lot are experiencing tough times, but, City Walk is full of third party vendors. How many empty buildings are sitting there?

I think this is all part of some sort of plan for DTD. But what that plan is, who the heck knows. Something tells me this will be WDW's version of Paradise Pier in the next few years. So, expect a ferris wheel to be announced.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't think you could be more wrong. If anything DTD is an anti-mall. And the last thing it needs is "anchor" stores. It needs to be and will be a place where people (visitors and locals) can experience a collection of venues in one location they can't anywhere else.

I am not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you suggesting that the offerings at Downtown Disney are themselves unique or that one cannot find such offerings together, so therefore it is unique?

 

[jt04]

My wife and I were commenting on the state of DTD last week when we were there. We both love the marketplace side but we dont even go to the westside anymore, no reason too. We did walk over to see Characters in flight, but as it was closed due to weather, we turned back around and never looked back.
Someone earlier mentioned Citywalk, despite what the Universal haters say, Citywalk is vibrant, exciting, entertaining, and makes you want to linger. DTD Westside is a long corridor full of not very good, some even down right pathetic, restaurants. Shops I dont care about...Magic tricks and magnets???? Cmon...and where does it lead but to Cirque....Which is a good show but after seeing it once 5 years ago, i have no interest in repeating. Even Disney Quest is old and tired, not to mention way overpriced.
I don't claim to have the answers to DTD's woes....but I have been coming to Disney every year for a while now, and drop lots of $$$ in Marketplace and never spend a dime in Westside. I dont think I am the only one!

That is weird, when i'm there I spend almost all my time on the West end. I guess that is do to Disney trying to offer some kind of entertainment to fill every market. And it will only get better.

Especially if they build an ESPNZone. Can't wait for the new Imax!

 

[jt04]

I am not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you suggesting that the offerings at Downtown Disney are themselves unique or that one cannot find such offerings together, so therefore it is unique?

No, I'm suggesting that when this transition is complete, there will be nowhere else you can experience such a diverse and unique selection of dinining, entertainment and shopping venues and all in an amazingly beautiful location.

 

[jt04]

I don't think we can blame EVERYTHING on the current economic conditions hitting third party vendors. True, a lot are experiencing tough times, but, City Walk is full of third party vendors. How many empty buildings are sitting there?

I think this is all part of some sort of plan for DTD. But what that plan is, who the heck knows. Something tells me this will be WDW's version of Paradise Pier in the next few years. So, expect a ferris wheel to be announced.

Hmmmm, Paradise Pier? Intresting!

 

[Hummer1676]

If they were smart they would open up a couple more famous named restaurants. If they brought in Grand Lux Cafe (Cheesecake Factory sisterA), plus some good retail they would have more traffic. TDO needs to remember that if DTD is to survive it will need the support of the locals. Find a way to get locals to come out and support it, and you will have a successful retail area.

 

[GothMickey]

If they were smart they would open up a couple more famous named restaurants. If they brought in Grand Lux Cafe (Cheesecake Factory sisterA), plus some good retail they would have more traffic. TDO needs to remember that if DTD is to survive it will need the support of the locals. Find a way to get locals to come out and support it, and you will have a successful retail area.

True, but I think they are going to be gearing the other development as their new retail area. I am starting to feel more and more like DTD will soon become a Paradise Pier type of location.

 

[jt04]

If they were smart they would open up a couple more famous named restaurants. If they brought in Grand Lux Cafe (Cheesecake Factory sisterA), plus some good retail they would have more traffic. TDO needs to remember that if DTD is to survive it will need the support of the locals. Find a way to get locals to come out and support it, and you will have a successful retail area.

They really are not having problems drawing crowds considering the economy and number of buildings closed for repurposing. The place is still doing quite well. Just imagine what it will be like after the transition. I think they will eventually have to add parking garages.

And it is not a question of "if DTD is to survive". Again, it is and will do fine. Now when the AC closes for good there are some who will think it is the end and will never return but that will not cause DTD to go out of business. :lol:

 

[jt04]

True, but I think they are going to be gearing the other development as their new retail area. I am starting to feel more and more like DTD will soon become a Paradise Pier type of location.

Me to.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, I'm suggesting that when this transition is complete, there will be nowhere else you can experience such a diverse and unique selection of dinining, entertainment and shopping venues and all in an amazingly beautiful location.

That aim is really no different than that of any other mall. Every mall wishes to have "a diverse and unique selection of dinining, entertainment and shopping venues and all in an amazingly beautiful location." If a mall (or any type of shopping center, leisure center, lifestyle center, or one of the other made up names that are supposed to be more psychologically appealing) does not offer what you described it does not draw people away from other malls and does not typically fair well. Disney has big ticket items and expensive names, but many of them are still apart of chain operations. Just because it is better than what you have in your neighborhood does not change that is a mall. It fits the very definition. Mall does not need to be a crass term nor does it need to limit the appeal, quality and uniqueness of Disney's operations.

IF this is all really part of a big planned transition then somebody has some serious guts or a serious case of stupidity. This kind of emptying out is typically very detrimental. It kills off traffic flow, which hurts existing smaller shops and that scares potential new tenants.