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Downtown Disney update
- Thread starter Tim_4
- Start date
lebeau
Well-Known Member
True, but at different points you only had to be 18 to get on the island I believe. It wasn't the under 21 crowd that caused issues necessarily, it was the idea that they took away the party atmosphere and due to lack of viable transportation around the island, caused strollers to be pushed through with drunks in the street.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
jt04
Well-Known Member
The issues of safety has nothing to do with any "gang" activity as far as I know. That is a mischaracterization some folks here use to cloud the true problems Disney was experiencing. The first time I saw those telescoping security booths was at DTD. Those were not installed on a whim. My guess is they were installed for seveal reasons. Those would include prevention of vehicle break-ins, deterring loitering and other illegal activities AND acting as a deterrent to drivers who might otherwise be tempted to drive impaired.
Other issues at DTD were underage drinking by those with fake ID's, legal adults buying drinks for minors, loitering by unsupervised minors where adults were drinking, drug use and drugs being peddled in the clubs.
Then there was the issue of some of the clubs booking acts with decidedly un-Disney content which spilled out into the common walkways such as those near the family attraction called Disney Quest.
Then add the random fights, muggings, robberies, and now pipe bombs if the blog linked above is correct. I also believe there may have been an attempted kidnapping of a young couple if I remember right.
Yeah right, there were no issues with the entire PI/DTD idea. Nothing at all.
What is tragic is that all this activity took out harmless attractions such as the AC and CW. This is why we can't have nice things.
Other issues at DTD were underage drinking by those with fake ID's, legal adults buying drinks for minors, loitering by unsupervised minors where adults were drinking, drug use and drugs being peddled in the clubs.
Then there was the issue of some of the clubs booking acts with decidedly un-Disney content which spilled out into the common walkways such as those near the family attraction called Disney Quest.
Then add the random fights, muggings, robberies, and now pipe bombs if the blog linked above is correct. I also believe there may have been an attempted kidnapping of a young couple if I remember right.
Yeah right, there were no issues with the entire PI/DTD idea. Nothing at all.
What is tragic is that all this activity took out harmless attractions such as the AC and CW. This is why we can't have nice things.
The issues of safety has nothing to do with any "gang" activity as far as I know. That is a mischaracterization some folks here use to cloud the true problems Disney was experiencing. The first time I saw those telescoping security booths was at DTD. Those were not installed on a whim. My guess is they were installed for seveal reasons. Those would include prevention of vehicle break-ins, deterring loitering and other illegal activities AND acting as a deterrent to drivers who might otherwise be tempted to drive impaired.
Other issues at DTD were underage drinking by those with fake ID's, legal adults buying drinks for minors, loitering by unsupervised minors where adults were drinking, drug use and drugs being peddled in the clubs.
Then there was the issue of some of the clubs booking acts with decidedly un-Disney content which spilled out into the common walkways such as those near the family attraction called Disney Quest.
Then add the random fights, muggings, robberies, and now pipe bombs if the blog linked above is correct. I also believe there may have been an attempted kidnapping of a young couple if I remember right.
Yeah right, there were no issues with the entire PI/DTD idea. Nothing at all.
What is tragic is that all this activity took out harmless attractions such as the AC and CW. This is why we can't have nice things.
I disagree, my article states it clearly, so there is no need to repeat. Things my article didn't address
1. you have no proof of exactly why the telescoping security booths were used at DTD, nor do you know if they were used there first.
2. I'm sorry, that doesn't happen at EPCOT? at ADH? at Jellyrolls? cmon, closing the clubs certainly didn't solve underage drinking. Regarding drug use, there were no issues with that before things were un-gated. I'm happy to check with my sources to see exactly what, if any issues there were regarding drugs and at what point in the PI timeline
3. Sorry are you talking about HoB? They are the ones booking non Disney acts. The acts Disney booked were mostly before DQ was built.
Regarding fights, muggings, robberies, and pipe bombs, my article explained all of that. PI had NOTHING to do with the pipe bomb. PERIOD. And last I checked, since PI was closed, I can confirm car break ins, an armed robbery at McDonald's, and a guy being caught with a loaded gun in the bathroom so...again how did PI cause those problems?
What's tragic is TDO's complete lack of vision and GREED has lead to a bunch of vacant buildings, some grass, and half a gravel sidewalk being built.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Get rid of the emotional connection and look at the history objectively. The truth of the matter is unmistakeable. There is a reason DL's DTD has avoided all of the mistakes Disney made at DTD/PI. They learned and decided not to repeat the same mistakes. This is all just common sense.
PI was not flawed, the traffic pattern created by the West Side was. PI was a wild success until they built the West Side and created a traffic issue.
My sources are not like minded propagandists. You forget I work at MK and take breaks with OCS. I can ask them straight up and they will give me an answer if there were drug problems and if so, when. My friend is also a current Disney EMT so I get all kinds of accurate information about DTD from him. Just another example of trying to come to a middle ground, by offering to ask people who would know rather than just throwing answers and ideas out there, but you won't accept that.
Stop drinking the kool-aid and realize the problems surrounding the closure of the clubs were problems Disney created. DTD might no longer be the place for a PI type environment because of the decisions Disney made in the late 90s, but that doesn't mean there isn't demand and that means they should build an equivalent district elsewhere on property.
My sources are not like minded propagandists. You forget I work at MK and take breaks with OCS. I can ask them straight up and they will give me an answer if there were drug problems and if so, when. My friend is also a current Disney EMT so I get all kinds of accurate information about DTD from him. Just another example of trying to come to a middle ground, by offering to ask people who would know rather than just throwing answers and ideas out there, but you won't accept that.
Stop drinking the kool-aid and realize the problems surrounding the closure of the clubs were problems Disney created. DTD might no longer be the place for a PI type environment because of the decisions Disney made in the late 90s, but that doesn't mean there isn't demand and that means they should build an equivalent district elsewhere on property.
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
Jt, there were never telescoping security booths in the PI parking lot, Lots E-F-G. They were in the other lots away from PI where PI clubbers would rarely park. And those booths are still there, 4 years after the clubs closed. So your entire theory about PI attracting crime, like most everything else you write, is b.s.
Fake ID issues exist anywhere alcohol is sold and it was no more of an issue at PI than anywhere else. For many years PI was 21+ so adults buying drinks for minors was difficult at best. And what is your source for saying there was drug use and drug peddling in the clubs? More b.s. you're just throwing out there.
You're referring to House of Blues. It's still there and they still book heavy metal and goth bands. And it still attracts the same crowd. And it's still next to DQ. HOB was not on Pleasure Island then and it still isn't. Had absolutely nothing to do with PI clubs being closed.
Random fights. Sure. The young couple kidnapping was proven to be a hoax. The pipe bomb did happen but it was on the West Side, which they did not close because of it.
Only in your mind, Jt. The clubs were closed simply because they thought they could make more money renting to 3rd parties. That's it, Jt.
John
Well-Known Member
Not to mention, mommies pushing strollers would have never been on PI if they didnt take down the turnstyles...JT....over and over we go thru this....No one was allowed in PI under 21. Fake ID's been around since the beginning of time. Puhhhlease. You keep saying all the ill's DTD has was do to PI. You know that isnt the truth. You honestly think there isnt any drugs at HOB or Bongo's?...seriously.....do you? Think someone in those two clubs with fake ID's?
71jason
Well-Known Member
There was an occasional fight--happens in EPCOT and Magic Kingdom, too. Never heard anything about muggings or robberies--can you link to some police reports? There was one pipe bomb--not in PI, and a disgruntled employee, not sure what that has to do with nightlife. The "kidnapped" couple recanted their story a day or two later--police theorized they were going off property to buy drugs, apparently unaware of the open air drug market in PI's bathrooms.
71jason
Well-Known Member
For the record, PI was always open to people under 21. Mannequins was the only exception while the gates were up. However if you were under 18, you had to be with a parent.
That said, WDW is hands-down the strictest place I've seen on underage drinking. When PI was open, you had to be 21 to get a wristband. If you handed someone without a wristband a drink, security would be on you in seconds. Saw it many times. Bartenders would routinely refuse cracked or expired licenses, and occasionally I would see them turn down an ID when the picture didn't look like the person. Underage drinking was less of a problem at PI than anywhere else in the country...including EPCOT and Atlantic Dance, which remain open.
Even today, they are very strict, routinely running "stings" on bartenders. A friend of mine, a long-time 8-Traxx bartender, was fired for serving a 20-year-old secret shopper...2 years after the clubs closed.
As for drugs...again, show me the arrest records.
I think it was hopelessly naive to name a nighttime entertainment district Pleasure Island and not expect that underage kids would smoke, drink, and engage in destructive activities.
What's truly sad is that, with the closure of much of Pleasure Island, the productivity of central Florida's salt mines has suffered tremendously owing to the precipitous drop in the availability of donkeys.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
In concept, this was deliberate. While the West Side ended up being viewed by many as an extension of the Marketplace, that was not its goal. It was supposed to be more of a retail and dining extension of Pleasure Island. The lack of transportation was deliberate because the West Side and Marketplace were supposed to attract different audiences.
I know this is off topic, but refusing an expired license is something I really just do not understand. Your license to operate a motor vehicle has expired, your age has not magically changed. Though, I also do not understand why my birthdate has to be checked on my new license, since all new licenses here are portrait for under 21 and landscape for over 21. Do the people checking really think I would go through all of the effort to create a near perfect fake, but put the wrong birthdate?
Thats one hell of a spill from PI to DQ don't you think?
TDO wanted PI dead to do it cheaper and it back fired.
jt04
Well-Known Member
I think the PI concept works isolated from mixed use areas that cater to all age demographics. I have no problem with that idea. There is a thought by some that Disney created the problems to undermine PI. But whether they did it on purpose or it was just flawed from the start only indicates that there was a serious problem all along. Funny that after the clubs closed the security issues suddenly decreased dramatically while the crowds have steadily increased despite a faltering economy. Skies the limit for DTD now.
jt04
Well-Known Member
The problem was HoB as I remember it and it was just a result of the spiriling down of DTD overall. That trend has been dramatically reversed and the positive results will be even more evident when the economy turns around someday.