Downtown Disney update

[alissafalco]

I know many are upset about PI closing, but if the crime rate was getting out of control, and the "element" it was attracting was beginning to make it unsafe for guests I think that Disney made the right decision by closing it down. As far as why they have not replaced it with anything new and unique is most likely because the rent is just way too high for any new vendors to come.

 

[xdan0920]

I know many are upset about PI closing, but if the crime rate was getting out of control, and the "element" it was attracting was beginning to make it unsafe for guests I think that Disney made the right decision by closing it down. As far as why they have not replaced it with anything new and unique is most likely because the rent is just way too high for any new vendors to come.

False. The crime rate and the "element" were not factors in shuttering PI.

 

[IlikeDW]

Which of the two opinions are you deeming "False"

 

[jt04]

I agree with you until the last two lines. If you want to disagree with the concept of PI, that's fine, but not on these grounds. You make the point that DTD should offer unique experiences. How is T-Rex unique but something like the Adventurer's Club is not? Yes, T-Rex is "different" but it is still a restaurant and restaurants exist all over the place. I happen to agree with you that it IS unique but just as T-Rex is unique among restaurants, Adventurer's Club was unique among bars/clubs.

Again, I'm not super gung ho about the PI concept in general (never actually experienced it) but I think this particular argument is misguided.

Why do I always have to repeat myself? I have said a hundred times I think the AC was perfect for DTD sans the PI concept. It is the large dance clubs that alienate too many guests and cause security issues. That is why PI and the large clubs will likely not return. Plus two are gone now.

 

[jt04]

I understand your "theory" perfectly well. I think you are completely and totally wrong, just changing your vague words to fit whatever happens so that you can consistently claim to be right. Even if Disney was aiming for what you claim, there would be evidence after four years. It would require looking at specific properties and concepts and then pursuing them.

It is also not too different than what is happening at every half decently managed retail development, be it a strip mall or a lifestyle center like Downtown Disney. They all want a collection that is unique for the location, because otherwise there is no attraction to the development. Landlords will even contractually limit the offerings of tenants so that they do no overlap and create inter-development competition and product/experience saturation. You once again try to twist basic sense into something grander that only your so-called wisdom can deduce.

The evidence I am right is all around you. You are in denial. Just look at all the changes over the last 4 years. They might not be changes you care about but then you do not represent the opinion of what most guests want. Disney does the surveys and seeks to serve the guest. It is pretty obvious they know how to do this judging by the success of WDW.

HW was real. Nobody refutes that. Iger pulled the plug because IMO he does not understand the potential of these complexes in the same way Eisner did not understand Future World!

I am very serious when I say that DTD can sell AP's and DVC's in a big way. And it can't have venues that drive as many guests away as it attracts. Common sense. That is all that is required.

And when I say "sell" DVC's and AP's I don't mean booths set up to do so at DTD. What I mean is that a fully developed DTD will be a MAJOR selling point when marketing them.

 

[jt04]

I know many are upset about PI closing, but if the crime rate was getting out of control, and the "element" it was attracting was beginning to make it unsafe for guests I think that Disney made the right decision by closing it down. As far as why they have not replaced it with anything new and unique is most likely because the rent is just way too high for any new vendors to come.

I think you have to include underage teens that were loitering around because parents foolishly thought since it is "Disney" it must be safe and they could drop them off for a few hours to hang with their friends. Add to that mix more and more of the drugs that frequently surround the dance club environment (I said frequently not always) and you had a recipe for trouble.

Disney saw DTD slipping downhill which is why they closed PI and made HoB clean up their act. Period. And if anyone can refute my take on the matter with facts please do soooooo..................now.

 

[xdan0920]

Which of the two opinions are you deeming "False"

Meant to bold, fixed it now.

 

[xdan0920]

[quote="jt04, post: 5018027, member: 13037"]The evidence I am right is all around you. You are in denial. Just look at all the changes over the last 4 years. They might not be changes you care about but then you do not represent the opinion of what most guests want. Disney does the surveys and seeks to serve the guest. It is pretty obvious they know how to do this judging by the success of WDW.

HW was real. Nobody refutes that. Iger pulled the plug because IMO he does not understand the potential of these complexes in the same way Eisner did not understand Future World!

I am very serious when I say that DTD can sell AP's and DVC's in a big way. And it can't have venues that drive as many guests away as it attracts. Common sense. That is all that is required.

And when I say "sell" DVC's and AP's I don't mean booths set up to do so at DTD. What I mean is that a fully developed DTD will be a MAJOR selling point when marketing them.[/quote]

What changes are you referring to? Aside from the closing of the clubs?

 

[jt04]

[quote="jt04, post: 5018027, member: 13037"]The evidence I am right is all around you. You are in denial. Just look at all the changes over the last 4 years. They might not be changes you care about but then you do not represent the opinion of what most guests want. Disney does the surveys and seeks to serve the guest. It is pretty obvious they know how to do this judging by the success of WDW.

HW was real. Nobody refutes that. Iger pulled the plug because IMO he does not understand the potential of these complexes in the same way Eisner did not understand Future World!

I am very serious when I say that DTD can sell AP's and DVC's in a big way. And it can't have venues that drive as many guests away as it attracts. Common sense. That is all that is required.

And when I say "sell" DVC's and AP's I don't mean booths set up to do so at DTD. What I mean is that a fully developed DTD will be a MAJOR selling point when marketing them.

What changes are you referring to? Aside from the closing of the clubs?[/quote]

If I have to explain then you are in too much denial for it to penetrate anyway. So I won't bother. Perhaps Steve will formulate a list at some point. He has posted every single change in great detail. I am not wasting my time answering you when your question has been so throughly answered by this site for anyone paying attention.

 

[jt04]

False. The crime rate and the "element" were not factors in shuttering PI.

BS

 

[dreamscometrue]

False. The crime rate and the "element" were not factors in shuttering PI.

Yeah...I'm quite sure they were in fact factors in the decision to close PI.

 

[xdan0920]

BS

Still holding onto the idea that there were roaming thugs, and massive DUI problems, despite not having an ounce of proof?

 

[xdan0920]

Yeah...I'm quite sure they were in fact factors in the decision to close PI.

Where is the documentation that these were actual issues? I went to PI a lot, anecdotally, I never saw any of this nonsense.

 

[marni1971]

Why do I always have to repeat myself? I have said a hundred times I think the AC was perfect for DTD sans the PI concept. It is the large dance clubs that alienate too many guests and cause security issues. That is why PI and the large clubs will likely not return. Plus two are gone now.

Possibly because people don't agree with your view of things? You're not asked to repeat yourself. It's just people don't believe you. Maybe.

Anyway, the Mannequins building is being prepped for something as we speak. No idea what though.

 

[jt04]

Still holding onto the idea that there were roaming thugs, and massive DUI problems, despite not having an ounce of proof?

I have never said anything of the sort. Others have said this but not me. The HoB issues are well documented. There was some sort of problem there. Everyone knows Disney had to add security booths in the parking lots around PI.

There were DUI issues in the early days. I wouldn't be suprised if someone involved at the time chimes in someday to set the record straight.

 

[jt04]

Possibly because people don't agree with your view of things? You're not asked to repeat yourself. It's just people don't believe you. Maybe.

Anyway, the Mannequins building is being prepped for something as we speak. No idea what though.

They don't believe me perhaps because they disagree with me? No doubt. And they do fall back into the same assumptions repeatedly. They assume a lot about what I say and forget the rest because they are not thinking but reacting emotionally. I find it quite interesting though that the AC crowd has gone mostly silent. Perhaps they know something and have figured out that carping on-line will only have negative results.

If Mannequins reopens nobody can blame me for not clearly stating the impacts. But think of all the overtime for the OC sheriffs and police departments. There's some economic stimulus for ya.

 

[Beholder]

As I've said earlier, I never experienced PI in it's prime, but seeing that space sit idle for so long seems symptomatic of larger, internal problems. Leadership, lack of vision, indecision, I don't know, but something needs to happen. As has been stated by someone else, money has been left in the table. I don't pretend to know the how's and why's of TDO, but real-estate this valuable sitting idle this long seems like a waste. Whatever happens, I sincerely hope it's worth the wait.

 

[wm49rs]

I wouldn't be suprised if someone involved at the time chimes in someday to set the record straight.

Well, considering all of the times you harped on reports of DUIs stemming from PI (proof of which is still outstanding),I'm fairly certain that person won't be you.....

 

[71jason]

I have said a hundred times I think the AC was perfect for DTD sans the PI concept. It is the large dance clubs that alienate too many guests and cause security issues.

But exponentially more quests frequented the dance clubs than ever visited the AC. The AC was popular among fanbois who post in online Disney boards and that tiny subset of greater Orlando residents who moved here "to be close to the magic." Average tourists loved the dance clubs--that's why they were so profitable.

And if dance clubs alienate guests and cause security issues, why are third party clubs allowed in the West Side, while a WDW-owned club remains open along the Boardwalk?

And if that threat is gone, why are there always at least half a dozen deputies stationed at PI 4 years after the dance clubs closed?

Do you really belive anything alienates guests more than two rows of vacant buildings?

 

[jt04]

Well, considering all of the times you harped on reports of DUIs stemming from PI (proof of which is still outstanding),I'm fairly certain that person won't be you.....

Oh, silly man, you still underestimate me. In the words of Mick Jagger, "Time is on my side, yes it is". And I have the patience of Job.