Don't wanna be angry, but I am...[Rant]

[_caleb]

A lot of the recent changes (changes to customer service, the corporate restructuring, proposed changes to rides/attractions) is Disney (finally) adjusting to the fact that they don't have "an audience," but rather "multiple audiences."

No changes are going to please all of these audiences. At some point, there has so be some level of "strategic offense." While Disney can't afford to take any audience for granted, the audiences they used to cater to are no longer the focus. These audiences may express outrage about changes, but continue buying anything and everything Disney is selling. Other audiences, (such as young adults, minority groups, and the extremely wealthy) have a much more tentative relationship with the Mouse, and need more accommodation in order to build trust. I think Disney is changing to be less like what many of us want it to be in order to be more like what other audiences want it to be.

There is a bit of risk in the approach. Every audience–even the most loyal–surely has its breaking point. Frustrate them too much, and you risk losing them to Universal or Dollywood or whatever. There's also the risk of trying to attract and please a group that will never be won over, no matter how far you go to accommodate them (though I think this is more rare than many members here–who are part of the frustrated loyal audience–seem to think).

All the changes over the last several years–the IP invasion, the changes in customer service, the Splash retheme announcement, the colors of Cinderella Castle and Tomorrowland–are examples of Disney gambling on changes that may help with newer/different audiences even if they don't go over well with the frustrated loyalists.

 

[erasure fan1]

I think Disney is changing to be less like what many of us want it to be in order to be more like what other audiences want it to be.

There is a bit of risk in the approach.

I'd say it's more than a bit of a risk. I think it's a huge risk. Nostalgia is a powerful thing. If you miss, and lose a generation of fans, that can have a big impact on the future.

There's also the risk of trying to attract and please a group that will never be won over, no matter how far you go to accommodate them (though I think this is more rare than many members here–who are part of the frustrated loyal audience–seem to think).

Going after one demographic and not focusing on what and who got you to where you are, generally ends in failure. More often than not, that strategy doesn't work. It is blatantly apparent that Disney firmly believes that us diehard fans are absolute sheep. And we will just buy up whatever they are throwing out. And so far that seems to be the case. You have to be very careful though, once that line is crossed, it's a very hard road back.

 

[disney_dave62]

what just pushed me over the edge ...im at boulder ridge went down to gisserpoint, took 15 mins just to walk up to bar to order 2 drinks and then i got the bill allmost $32 bucks for a plastic cup ..there screwed in there head if im buying another...im headed out to walgreens

 

[_caleb]

I'd say it's more than a bit of a risk. I think it's a huge risk. Nostalgia is a powerful thing. If you miss, and lose a generation of fans, that can have a big impact on the future.

Going after one demographic and not focusing on what and who got you to where you are, generally ends in failure. More often than not, that strategy doesn't work. It is blatantly apparent that Disney firmly believes that us diehard fans are absolute sheep. And we will just buy up whatever they are throwing out. And so far that seems to be the case. You have to be very careful though, once that line is crossed, it's a very hard road back.

Yeah. I agree.

But I don't think Disney is going to lose their base precisely because of the nostalgia factor. So many of the changes lamented about in this thread are Disney pushing to find out how much they can cut (and what prices they can raise!) before it actually has an effect on the base. They've cut fireworks, operating hours, free parking, walk around characters. You can always tell when they're afraid they may have gone too far, they just announce the return of the MSEP, push the Dining Plan, or announce a new churro flavor, and everything is fine.

And the biggest thing is that Disney is thinking into the future. The don't see the traditional base as the future, but rather niche fandoms and subgroups. By the way, those of us on these boards are NOT the base- we're a niche fandom. They play to us a lot, too–the Epcot redesign icons, the Imagineering Story, D23–these are the things they do to keep us tuned in (and spending!).

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yeah. I agree.

But I don't think Disney is going to lose their base precisely because of the nostalgia factor. So many of the changes lamented about in this thread are Disney pushing to find out how much they can cut (and what prices they can raise!) before it actually has an effect on the base. They've cut fireworks, operating hours, free parking, walk around characters. You can always tell when they're afraid they may have gone too far, they just announce the return of the MSEP, push the Dining Plan, or announce a new churro flavor, and everything is fine.

And the biggest thing is that Disney is thinking into the future. The don't see the traditional base as the future, but rather niche fandoms and subgroups. By the way, those of us on these boards are NOT the base- we're a niche fandom. They play to us a lot, too–the Epcot redesign icons, the Imagineering Story, D23–these are the things they do to keep us tuned in (and spending!).

So Right! Nostalgia is directly connected to the era you lived in. Those of us that remember Disneyland from 1955 or even WDW from 1971 are either getting pretty long in the tooth or close to dead. We are not whom they should be catering to. Kids born within the last 10 years are now going to eventually to be the base. How impressed they are is what is going to fuel it through another generation. Many in my generation and even the one after, are fans of animatronics and Omni-movers. Todays screen oriented youth are bored with that and want the excitement and reality that screens can simulate.

What will hurt Disney more is the competition. Future Theme Park enthusiast will not be loyal to Walt Disney. Heck, many have never even heard of him as a man, and only know him as a company name. If the competition continues to advance in imagination and technology, they will be the eventual winners. I don't think that Disney will disappear, but it will become less influential in the world of Theme Parks. Yes, I know we don't like to think about that, but Disney, even though they will never admit it, spent the last decades dragging their feet when it came to creating new and different things. Accountants are not willing to take chances, just like Roy only did when forced to after Walt's passing. He usually fought Walt tooth and nail over so many of Walt's ideas. But since it was Walt's name on the company stationary, Walt would just do it anyway and let Roy figure out how to pay for it. That kind of adventuresome atmosphere no longer exists. That is partially because the decision makers make to much money that they are petrified of losing if some idea tanks. Walt could make mistakes with no personal consequences except a bruised ego. There is a revolving door connected to all leadership now where no major screwups are tolerated. That's our world now and we have to live in it.

 

[LastoneOn]

Some good thoughts here on new vs old. For my group its not so much being attached to particular attractions, its the nature of the attraction. We like many newer movies and attractions based on them would be just fine. But as an example, we're not big Marvel - live action super hero- sorts of people. While we enjoy a bit of that, attractions based on Marvel likely wouldn't draw us in just because "its Marvel". So it's not a rejection of "new" vs "old" it's how the whole thing is done.

 

[NelleBelle]

I'll say this...I am definitely not a fan of all this IP stuff. I grew up in the late '70s/'80s of Disneyland. However, my kids, who are teen boys, do like things like Star Wars and Marvel (as well as my geek of a DH)--one of my kids' favorite rides at DLR is the GotG ride that seems to get so much hate (I actually like it now that I've ridden it). I think that there has to be a mix of some IP to attract new generations. I can appreciate that there are things now for my boys at disney--growing up as very young kids, you'd see all these tiny girls dressed up and literally nothing (except pirate garb) for boys. It seemed everything was very heavily skewed towards girls when they were young and I'm glad to see some things a little more masculine and gender-neutral. It definitely makes me appreciate the "classics" I grew up with that are still around. But I'm also of the group that does appreciate the "new" things as well when done right!

 

[erasure fan1]

Many in my generation and even the one after, are fans of animatronics and Omni-movers. Todays screen oriented youth are bored with that and want the excitement and reality that screens can simulate.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think this statement isn't very accurate. Just because kids, or adults for that matter, spend ungodly amounts of time on smartphones, doesn't mean they're bored of AAs and omnimovers. If you converted haunted mansion to all screens, my 2 kids would hate it guaranteed. Plain and simple, Disney has done a very poor job of updating, making rides feel outdated and boring. The reason Mermaid isn't drawing crowds is not because it is an omnimover with AAs. It's because it was poorly done. Kids like good rides just like everyone else, no matter the tech behind them. Maybe my kids are anomalies because the majority of their favorite rides are AA based with physical sets. But I don't think so.

 

[LastoneOn]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think this statement isn't very accurate. Just because kids, or adults for that matter, spend ungodly amounts of time on smartphones, doesn't mean they're bored of AAs and omnimovers. If you converted haunted mansion to all screens, my 2 kids would hate it guaranteed. Plain and simple, Disney has done a very poor job of updating, making rides feel outdated and boring. The reason Mermaid isn't drawing crowds is not because it is an omnimover with AAs. It's because it was poorly done. Kids like good rides just like everyone else, no matter the tech behind them. Maybe my kids are anomalies because the majority of their favorite rides are AA based with physical sets. But I don't think so.

Yeah I think the thing Goofy is they're consuming what they're given, not what they might desire. You can't write off whole generation or two because they're using the world that was created and given to them by adults. the problem is with the adults creating in a way what THEY want, and foisting it onto the kids. Its kind of a chicken egg loop

 

[larryz]

... but you need a creative person, not a money person, in charge. Someone who's motivation is to build something timeless, not to make money short term for their own quarterly earning and executive bonuses

Iger was a weatherman.

I can't think of another job where you get to make up so much stuff that later turns out to be untrue than that!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Iger was a weatherman.

I can't think of another job where you get to make up so much stuff that later turns out to be untrue than that!

...at least Dave letterman is funny

 

[larryz]

...at least Dave letterman is funny

He used to be, anyway...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

He used to be, anyway...

...yeah...but he developed a severe case of “honesty” in retirement

 

[Shouldigo12]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think this statement isn't very accurate. Just because kids, or adults for that matter, spend ungodly amounts of time on smartphones, doesn't mean they're bored of AAs and omnimovers. If you converted haunted mansion to all screens, my 2 kids would hate it guaranteed. Plain and simple, Disney has done a very poor job of updating, making rides feel outdated and boring. The reason Mermaid isn't drawing crowds is not because it is an omnimover with AAs. It's because it was poorly done. Kids like good rides just like everyone else, no matter the tech behind them. Maybe my kids are anomalies because the majority of their favorite rides are AA based with physical sets. But I don't think so.

Agreed. I'm in my early 20's. Hands down my favorite ride was Haunted Mansion because of the tech and effects. A screen would ruin it. And the the animotronics were the only enjoyable part of Hall of Presidents.

Edit: or maybe I'm last the point of being considered "the youth" haha.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think this statement isn't very accurate. Just because kids, or adults for that matter, spend ungodly amounts of time on smartphones, doesn't mean they're bored of AAs and omnimovers. If you converted haunted mansion to all screens, my 2 kids would hate it guaranteed. Plain and simple, Disney has done a very poor job of updating, making rides feel outdated and boring. The reason Mermaid isn't drawing crowds is not because it is an omnimover with AAs. It's because it was poorly done. Kids like good rides just like everyone else, no matter the tech behind them. Maybe my kids are anomalies because the majority of their favorite rides are AA based with physical sets. But I don't think so.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I stand by mine. AA's are amusing the first time you see them, but screens almost automatically immerse them in the story and create a far more exciting and complete immersion. We are currently sitting on the technological fence when it comes to Theme Park attractions. Of course some young kids enjoy them when they are younger which is why they should never get rid of them completely, but as they age their attention turns to other things.

 

[Shouldigo12]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I stand by mine. AA's are amusing the first time you see them, but screens almost automatically immerse them in the story and create a far more exciting and complete immersion. We are currently sitting on the technological fence when it comes to Theme Park attractions. Of course some young kids enjoy them when they are younger which is why they should never get rid of them completely, but as they age their attention turns to other things.

It sounds less like you think the younger generations like screens more, and more like you prefer them.

 

[erasure fan1]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I stand by mine. AA's are amusing the first time you see them, but screens almost automatically immerse them in the story and create a far more exciting and complete immersion. We are currently sitting on the technological fence when it comes to Theme Park attractions. Of course some young kids enjoy them when they are younger which is why they should never get rid of them completely, but as they age their attention turns to other things.

I know we've gone back and forth on this a few times. What I don't get is the all or nothing mentality. Screens do not automatically create a more immersive and exciting experience. What does create an immersive and exciting experience? How well the ride is executed. Unfortunately my trip this year was canceled because of covid. But I have seen enough and talked to enough people to know rise of the resistance, is a top tier attraction, not just at Disney, but in the world. By your logic, no one should care because it isn't all screens. As far as I can tell, it does exactly what it needs to do to be great. Big physical sets, with AAs and screens working together. They used all the tricks they had. Screens have their place and are a great tool to have. But this notion that no one under 40 or whatever cares about AAs is a bit strange. Everyone one I know who has been on Navi river says the same thing. The ride is kind of meh but that blue guy at the end was awesome.

 

[_caleb]

I agree it’s not quite as well-defined as “old people like AAs, young people like screens.” (And I don’t think this is what @Goofyernmost was saying.) But over the generations, a lot has changed in terms of what we find entertaining.

We can complain about shortened attention spans and the dependence on technology, but it seems clear to me that the things crowds used to find delightful and entertaining simply aren’t going to be enough to keep people‘s attention in the future. Disney knows this, and it’s why they keep “messing” with classic attractions (Disney characters in IaSW, interactive features in queues, IP everywhere). They’re trying to figure out how to keep people engaged.

Of course, we know the secret to this- build creative, fun, thoughtful, quality attractions!

 

[Goofyernmost]

It sounds less like you think the younger generations like screens more, and more like you prefer them.

Any good reason why it can't be both?

 

[Goofyernmost]

I know we've gone back and forth on this a few times. What I don't get is the all or nothing mentality. Screens do not automatically create a more immersive and exciting experience. What does create an immersive and exciting experience? How well the ride is executed. Unfortunately my trip this year was canceled because of covid. But I have seen enough and talked to enough people to know rise of the resistance, is a top tier attraction, not just at Disney, but in the world. By your logic, no one should care because it isn't all screens. As far as I can tell, it does exactly what it needs to do to be great. Big physical sets, with AAs and screens working together. They used all the tricks they had. Screens have their place and are a great tool to have. But this notion that no one under 40 or whatever cares about AAs is a bit strange. Everyone one I know who has been on Navi river says the same thing. The ride is kind of meh but that blue guy at the end was awesome.

How are you getting that out of what I said? In fact, I mentioned that there should be both. I just flat out reject the reasoning that screens are an affront to nature. I still enjoy both and always will. I just hate to hear people advocating against not only a reasonable way of entertaining, but one that has been used in theme parks since Mission to the Moon in Disneyland in 1955.