Do you think GM will stay at Test Track?

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Well, first of all, we're talking about Orange County here. I wouldn't dare go to South LA. Ever. It's just not my scene, mainly because I value my life. If I do go to downtown LA, I often take the train up there. So I have no idea how it works in South LA. ("South Central" has been deemed Politically Incorrect by African-American activists, and if you use that old label you may be racist. It's "South Los Angeles" now. Just an FYI, so be careful.)

As for OC, the freeway merging thing works like this...

The following automobiles do not need to signal or wait for appropriate space to merge or change lanes. They simply change the direction and space their vehicle inhabits, and everyone else defers to their superiority. They may make these maneuvers at any time, regardless of traffic, time of day, or weather conditions. They rule the freeway, and they know it. In alphabetical order;

Aston Martin
Bentley
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Maybach
Mercedes SLR
Rolls Royce


The next tier are cars that enjoy basically the same courtesies as the list above, but during inclement weather or particulary heavy road congestion they need to at least make some sort of movement within their lane that signals they need to move. However, under no circumstances do they need to actually use their turn signals, and they still deserve to take over your space as quickly as possible:

Audi R8 or Q7
BMW 7 Series, M6, or X6
Lotus
Mercedes S, SL, CL, or any late model AMG offering
Morgan
Porsche, except Boxster
Spyker


Then comes a big swath of the OC and SoCal roadway, mainly comprised of the Real Housewives of OC going to Nordstrom or the Botox Clinic, and the real struggle for supremacy on SoCal roads. Do not get in their way, and do not impede their route. These cars don't signal and can get fast attention from a valet attendant, but may occasionally agree to yield to fire trucks or ambulances on rainy nights;

Audi, full line
BMW, full line
Infiniti, full line
Jaguar, full line
Land Rover, full line
Lexus, full line
Mercedes-Benz, full line
Volvo, except C30


Next come the niche vehicles and less impressive luxury brands. They can usually get away without signaling, and are often great at posing as cool cars 80% of the time. But when push comes to shove, or during unusual circumstances, they quickly bow their headlights and defer to the superior vehicles around them.

Acura, full line
Cadillac Escalade or XLR only
Chevrolet Corvette, classic restored or late model only
Ford Mustang, classic restored or late model GT convertible
Porsche Boxster
HUMMER, except H2
Volvo C30


Then we have the basic nice family cars, chick cars, or college kid cars. They sometimes use signals, and they sometimes might wave quickly at you when you extend a roadway courtesy to them. But they are often driven by young people whose parents have a car belonging to the upper ranks, and as such they don't neccesarily need to give you the time of day. And if they have good hair or are noticeably attractive, they often get away with murder even though they aren't driving a Maybach. It's all about the attitude and bravado with these ones;

Cadillac, full line
Dodge, Challenger or Magnum Hemi only with at least 20 inch wheels
Chrysler, 300C only
Honda, full line
Ford, late model trucks or SUV's only
GM, late model trucks or SUV's only
Mazda, full line
HUMMER, H2
Jeep, Wrangler or Grand Cherokee only
Lincoln, Navigator only
Mazda, full line
Mini Cooper, full line
Scion, full line
Subaru, WRX only
Toyota, full line
Volkswagen, full line
Hyundai, Genesis sedan only


And finally comes the bottom feeders, and the folks who should know their place. They have no real status, and they deserve little recognition or courtesy on the freeway or major thoroughfares. These are The Untouchables, and they are made up of people who have made bad life decisions, or are wide-eyed tourists who didn't know Hertz offers a Luxury Collection at major airports;

Buick, full line
Chevrolet, full line
Chrysler,full line
Dodge, full line
Ford, full line
Pontiac, full line
Saturn, full line
Subaru, full line
Kia, full line
Hyundai, full line
Mercury, full line
Lincoln, sedans


Got it?

I'm surprised you people didn't know this already! :D

Given the rarity of Spyker, I'm surprised they fell so low... and with how common Aston, Bentley, and Lambo are in comparison, how high they are. Especially now that the Aston V8 Vantage is out, which competes directly against the Porsche 911, and when one can purchase a second-hand Lambo Gallardo in excellent condition and put a new license plate on it to disguise its age for less than a Porsche 911.

Where does Bugatti go on the list?

And what happens for oddball cars that aren't on it, like Panoz, TVR, etc. There should be a rule... if the steering wheel is on the right, and you're neither a postal worker or a ricer (R32/33/34 Nissan Skyline GT-R excluded, since those are not rice, but rather, a Japanese connoisseur car), you get X privilege too. For when the gumballers come to town ;) And lastly... you forgot Smart. And why is Caddy so high up? You should differentiate models, I mean a beat Caddy Cimarron should get no perks... EVER.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Where does Bugatti go on the list?

And what happens for oddball cars that aren't on it, like Panoz, TVR, etc. There should be a rule... if the steering wheel is on the right, and you're neither a postal worker or a ricer (R32/33/34 Nissan Skyline GT-R excluded, since those are not rice, but rather, a Japanese connoisseur car), you get X privilege too. For when the gumballers come to town ;) And lastly... you forgot Smart. And why is Caddy so high up? You should differentiate models, I mean a beat Caddy Cimarron should get no perks... EVER.

My Gawd! I forgot Bugatti! I saw a gorgeous one parked in front of Starbucks in Laguna Beach recently, and I literally drooled. I edited my original post and slotted Bugatti in at the top.

As for Smart, there's a new one. To try and keep On Topic, I actually did see a Smart ForTwo on the fifth floor of the Disneyland parking structure this past weekend. You are seeing more of these Smart cars in SoCal suddenly. I think they would go in the niche vehicles, so long as gas stays above 4 Dollars per gallon. If gas prices decline substantially, I'm afraid Smart would be downgraded to a Kia type status. Maybe Mini Cooper, but we'll have to give it at least a year or two to see.

As for Caddy, I assumed that these were all late model vehicles. Anything from the Cimarron era, or even the Catera era, just doesn't exist in all the right parking lots.

I mean really, with Cadillac you have to draw the line somewhere.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
My Gawd! I forgot Bugatti! I saw a gorgeous one parked in front of Starbucks in Laguna Beach recently, and I literally drooled. I slotted Bugatti in at the top.

As for Smart, there's a new one. To try and keep On Topic, I actually did see a Smart ForTwo in the Disneyland parking structure this past weekend. You are seeing more of these in SoCal. I think they would go in the niche vehicles, so long as gas stays above 4 Dollars per gallon. If gas prices decline substantially, I'm afraid Smart would be downgraded to a Kia type status. Maybe Mini Cooper, but we'll have to give it at least a year or two to see.

As for Caddy, I assumed that these were all late model vehicles. Anything from the Cimarron era, or even the Catera era, just doesn't exist in all the right parking lots. I mean really, you have to draw the line somewhere.

Oh, the Bugatti is "intercourse" on wheels with a cherry on top.

As for the smart, bear in mind it's made in France, like the Bugatti... but by Mercedes. So it has to have more caché than a Kia.

As for the Cimarron or Catera, I know about the parking lot issue, but bear in mind... people from Fresno do venture to Disneyland on occasion... and when they do, if they don't fly, they will have to do some freeway miles in Southern California. What then?

Another what if... what if Jay Leno decides to drive one of his oddities, where to they get slotted in?
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
As for the Cimarron or Catera, I know about the parking lot issue, but bear in mind... people from Fresno do venture to Disneyland on occasion... and when they do, if they don't fly, they will have to do some freeway miles in Southern California. What then?

Another what if... what if Jay Leno decides to drive one of his oddities, where to they get slotted in?

It really helps the people from Fresno, or Oregonians or Utahns or Arizonans, if they do that thing on the back window of their lesser vehicle where the kids write in white chalk "We're Going To Disneyland!". I love it when tourists in Orange County do that as it's just adorable, and honestly they get better treatment from the locals on the freeway that way in their Chrysler or Buick. It's heartwarming really, and who could cut them off with such innocent sentiment like that?

The Kia rating gets a boost only because they just opened that fancy new North American design center in Irvine just off the Santa Ana Freeway. It's a beautiful facility, and with Ford retreating and selling off the Premiere Auto Group brands farther down the freeway at their Irvine Spectrum design center, the Koreans are the new bigwigs in SoCal. Supposedly Kia is about to become the Alfa Romeo of Asian brands. We'll have to see what really develops. But it doesn't help that Alfa Romeo returns to the SoCal market for model year 2010.

As for the Jay Leno type custom hot rods or restored vehicles; they generally slot in that third tier with the average BMW or Lexus. But the car has to be meticulously detailed and restored to warrant that treatment, and a pretty blonde in the passenger seat helps. If the older car has even a whiff of Pomona swap meet persona about it, or the blonde's roots are showing, the vehicle and its driver is instantly dropped to the bottom of the list next to the Hyundai Elantra in the slow lane. The blonde then becomes up for grabs.

Seriously people, this stuff is for real. Now do you understand why Disney World would be wise to finally give up on the 20th century General Motors sponsorship deal?

Disneyland got with it and hooked up with Honda several years ago. It's time Walt Disney World rethinks the GM sponsorship at Epcot when it comes up for renewal at the end of this decade.

Again I say, I'd bet two churros the GM logo is no longer on the Test Track building a few years from now.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Supposedly Kia is about to become the Alfa Romeo of Asian brands. We'll have to see what really develops. But it doesn't help that Alfa Romeo returns to the SoCal market for model year 2010.

Hmmm... here is the text of an Euro-Asian comparo I did a while back, thanks for adding Kia/Alfa to the mix though, that adds a new level for me to think about (albeit Kias have no soul,aside from the name of their new model)

Luxury:
Acura = Audi
Infiniti = BMW
Lexus = Mercedes

Mainstream:
Honda = Peugeot
Isuzu = Rover/Land Rover
Mazda = VW
Mitsubishi = Renault
Nissan = Citroën
Subaru = Saab
Toyota = Opel/Vauxhall

Value:
Scion/Daihatsu = Seat/Mini/Smart
Suzuki = MG/Austin

Korean:
Daewoo = Generic British Leyland
Hyundai = Skoda
Kia = Fiat
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Mini is made and supplied by BMW. And certainly not aimed at the Daihatsu market in the UK.:drevil:

Which is preferable a Merc from Mexico or a BMW from Germany? Does it even matter.

GM have lost the plot, old tired models and are likely to head the way of Rover.
 

MousDad

New Member
("South Central" has been deemed Politically Incorrect by African-American activists, and if you use that old label you may be racist. It's "South Los Angeles" now. Just an FYI, so be careful.)

The education continues. Honestly, TP2000, I have learned more from you in this thread than I could have ever asked for. Your insight and gentle cajolement have benefited me in countless ways. It is with humble admiration that I nominate you for poster of the year.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Don't look now, but today Honda posted record profits for this last fiscal quarter, to the tune of 1.7 Billion dollars!

And at Disneyland they are going to display the new Hydrogen powered Honda FCX later this year at the Honda exhibit in Tomorrowland, once it begins leasing to SoCal families.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Honestly, TP2000, I have learned more from you in this thread than I could have ever asked for. Your insight and gentle cajolement have benefited me in countless ways. It is with humble admiration that I nominate you for poster of the year.

You are very welcome. Come visit me in SoCal, and I may even let you merge into my lane! :wave:
 

bdinger

Member
Today, Ford Motor Company announced a quarterly loss of 8.7 Billion dollars. And that includes the money they got from selling Jaguar off to an Indian businessman a few months ago. Volvo is still trying to be sold to someone, but no one is buying. Mercury has no new product coming to dealerships in the next five years and will likely be phased out a la' Oldsmobile and Plymouth.

Ford is in deep, deep financial trouble, and they won't be sponsoring anything anywhere.

While I agree that Ford is some serious financial troubles, you're wrong on the other points. Jaguar wasn't just sold off to some Indian businessman. They (along with Land Rover) were sold to Tata Motors, the leading auto manufacturer in India.

Also, Mercury isn't go anywhere anytime soon. Ford just announced a major revamp of their entire lineup that involves bringing many of the popular European and Asian Ford designs to the North American lineup. Mercury is an integral part of the plan.

One thing they failed to address in their press release though was how the new vehicles will help one achieve status in SoCal. Imagine having to go to the mall in one of these new vehicles and then be overlooked by the mall valet. :ROFLOL:
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
While I agree that Ford is some serious financial troubles, you're wrong on the other points. Jaguar wasn't just sold off to some Indian businessman. They (along with Land Rover) were sold to Tata Motors, the leading auto manufacturer in India.

Also, Mercury isn't go anywhere anytime soon. Ford just announced a major revamp of their entire lineup that involves bringing many of the popular European and Asian Ford designs to the North American lineup. Mercury is an integral part of the plan.

One thing they failed to address in their press release though was how the new vehicles will help one achieve status in SoCal. Imagine having to go to the mall in one of these new vehicles and then be overlooked by the mall valet. :ROFLOL:

I would love to see ford bring more of their european lineup here mainly a focus RS but sadly i don't think they want to being a compact car to the states that would destroy their almighty mustang in 0-60, handling, and fuel effiency..

That has been one of my biggest pet peeves about them. They could easily sell that car here and people would buy it but they don't sell it.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Mini is made and supplied by BMW. And certainly not aimed at the Daihatsu market in the UK.:drevil:

My list was aimed at LatAm/Caribbean interests, which is why I also listed Scion, which has 2 models (2/3 of it's lineup) that are essentially rebadged & federealized Daihatsus (the other 1/3 is essentially an Avensis coupe with boy racer skin), and compete in the same field as the Cooper (not Cooper S)

:)
 

PurpleDragon

Well-Known Member
I was going to comment on the whole SoCal vehicle hierarchy but to be perfectly honest, words absolutely fail me. :dazzle::zipit:

Do you honestly believe that vehicle status gives you the right to not obey basic traffic laws? Do you think that having a pretty car makes you better than someone else? Please god tell me you are joking TP2000.:veryconfu:brick:
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
I was going to comment on the whole SoCal vehicle hierarchy but to be perfectly honest, words absolutely fail me. :dazzle::zipit:

Do you honestly believe that vehicle status gives you the right to not obey basic traffic laws? Do you think that having a pretty car makes you better than someone else? Please god tell me you are joking TP2000.:veryconfu:brick:
That's just how Southern California is :lol: Image is tops there, everything else just falls short.

I've never rented anything less than a VW on my trips there... and the VW was kinda slumming it. I usually end up with an Infiniti or an Audi rental car there.
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
That's just how Southern California is :lol: Image is tops there, everything else just falls short.

I've never rented anything less than a VW on my trips there... and the VW was kinda slumming it. I usually end up with an Infiniti or an Audi rental car there.
We had a similar thing in Queens. If you drove a black Caddy and had a pinky ring and a crooked nose you generally got the right of way.:lol:
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Do you honestly believe that vehicle status gives you the right to not obey basic traffic laws? Do you think that having a pretty car makes you better than someone else? Please god tell me you are joking TP2000.:veryconfu:brick:

You obviously haven't been to the middle class, upper middle class, and upper class suburbs of Southern California. You are in Atlanta, and I lived several years in South Carolina and remember the South fondly, but I can tell you that your neck of the woods is nothing like Southern California.

Yesterday, a very prominent local man died while willfully disobeying traffic laws. His family operated the largest mega-church in SoCal, and he was behind the hugely succesful Harvest Crusade that takes place in Anaheim Stadium each year. He had over a dozen traffic tickets in the last five years, and he died on a sunny afternoon when he crashed into the back of a Caltrans sweeper truck in the car pool lane. He was driving alone at a very high rate of speed in the car pool lane, something he'd been ticketed for before, and he was driving a souped up HEMI powered Dodge Magnum (See Magnum status ranking in my previous list).

Don't want to bum everyone out, but the point is that... Even prominent religious leaders in Orange County, California routinely flaunt traffic laws and courteous behavior and do whatever their vehicle status allows them to get away with. It's how Californians live. And how Californians die. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/laurie-lane-traffic-2104592-pool-car
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
You obviously haven't been to the middle class, upper middle class, and upper class suburbs of Southern California. You are in Atlanta, and I lived several years in South Carolina and remember the South fondly, but I can tell you that your neck of the woods is nothing like Southern California.

Yesterday, a very prominent local man died while willfully disobeying traffic laws. His family operated the largest mega-church in SoCal, and he was behind the hugely succesful Harvest Crusade that takes place in Anaheim Stadium each year. He had over a dozen traffic tickets in the last five years, and he died on a sunny afternoon when he crashed into the back of a Caltrans sweeper truck in the car pool lane. He was driving alone at a very high rate of speed in the car pool lane, something he'd been ticketed for before, and he was driving a souped up HEMI powered Dodge Magnum (See Magnum status ranking in my previous list).

Don't want to bum everyone out, but the point is that... Even prominent religious leaders in Orange County, California routinely flaunt traffic laws and courteous behavior and do whatever their vehicle status allows them to get away with. It's how Californians live. And how Californians die. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/laurie-lane-traffic-2104592-pool-car
I believe that was the point of PurpleDragon. It seems like a very odd and dangerous way to live.
 

sweetale

Member
I would love to see ford bring more of their european lineup here mainly a focus RS but sadly i don't think they want to being a compact car to the states that would destroy their almighty mustang in 0-60, handling, and fuel effiency..

That has been one of my biggest pet peeves about them. They could easily sell that car here and people would buy it but they don't sell it.


Actually, as I recall from the local news Wednesday, Ford is planning to announce that they will be bringing over some of their European line of cars including the Focus. This, along with their next round of job cuts, are supposed to be officially announced soon.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Actually, as I recall from the local news Wednesday, Ford is planning to announce that they will be bringing over some of their European line of cars including the Focus. This, along with their next round of job cuts, are supposed to be officially announced soon.
They've said they're bringing oer the Euro focus... but not which trimlines
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
They've said they're bringing oer the Euro focus... but not which trimlines

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Or the Ford ASBO as Jeremy Clarckson nicknamed it
 

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