Do we lose track of the fact that WDW is really (in essence) for kids?

[EnergyKing]

I don't think anyone who devotes any time at all to this forum goes to wdw with the intention of having a bad time. I just went after christmas and had a great time. That said, I wasn't the only one in my family noticing a decline in creative quality. It has been a pattern for some time now, and it will only get worse if everyone continues to worry more about the bottom line than long-term cultural impact.

 

[Goofyernmost]

What I see is a lot of faithful fans intentionally ignoring obvious problems so that nothing rains on the multi thousand $$$$ vacation.

I fail to see what is wrong with that. If I spend multi thousand $$$$ on my vacation, I sure as hell am not going to be spending all my time looking for something to be wrong. I will concentrate on what I enjoy now or have enjoyed in the past because that is what Disney is all about. Two things actually suspension of disbelief and abandonment of negative. If I wanted to spend my whole day looking for problems I would have stayed at work and had massive amounts to find.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing to accentuate the positive and downplay the negative. That is what people spend multi thousand $$$$ to do. Why would anyone just look for problems when any problem that they might find in a place like WDW is really just an alteration of fantasy anyway.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, now that you mention it...

Pirates has become a Johnny Depp fangirl fiasco, The Haunted Mansion has lost some of its edge due to interactive madness, the Diamond Horseshoe isn't showing any performances (probably bc it hasn't produced a stuffed animal), the penny arcade is a great place to experience waiting in line for a whinnie the pooh doll, the jungle cruise is now slightly irritating with its tourguides' by-rote deliveries, the main street cinema...

I never considered myself to be a fangirl, but, I must be because I find that the plusing the PoTC with the addition of a highly lifelike AA of Capt. Jack, to be a very nice addition which did no harm to the story at all... it just re-enforced the story and made it more interesting.

Haunted Mansion interactive is outside the show building. It is just something that one can participate in or walk past. Once you get to the doors the experience is exactly the same. It seems to me that we, as mostly adults, should be able to compartmentalize our minds sufficiently to be nothing but a full sized smartphone screen to concentrate on while you wait to get to the actual show.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

WDW wasn't for kids. WDW was build by middle aged men for middle aged men.

I was about to say WDW was designed and built by middle aged men in cardigans who thought the best things for a resort destination were golf, high-rise restaurants, camping, fishing, boating and shows which is why "the vacation kingdom" focused on that outside of MK. This tradition continued well into the 90s with things like Pleasure Island and the Boardwalk.

How many guests visit without children? I dare say a huge chunk.

There was an episode of 60 minutes or some other news highlight show in the 80s that mentioned more people travel to WDW without kids than with. The figures may have changed, but the success of WDW was never defined by what was best for a 3 year old.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I definitely think we're all jaded, and that as adults we don't appreciate what young children find fascinating. My son and daughter both seemed to love Figment, Carousel of Progress, Small World, etc . . . We yawn as adults, and perhaps rightly so, but our yawning is probably beside the point.

We've also got to remember that indeed there may have been a perceive golden age of the parks that perhaps could not be sustained forever. Disneyland actually used to close one day a week, and many people who went to WDW in the 70s and 80s never went back because they saw all that they needed to see in a couple of days. And felt no compulsion to keep coming back. Now, we seem to complain if we're not dazzled for an entire week, and after consecutive annual weeklong trips we start to feel a little less excited by it all. And don't forget the whiners who go down searching for chipped paint and burnt out lightbulbs.

Honestly, would any of us want to return to a time when there were only a park or 2, when Nemo submarines were closed more than they were open, when the vacation planning video listed a bunch of offsite hotels as Disney partners, when there was no fastpass of any kind, and when tickets were needed for everything? I don't think so. Let's be honest, the world has changed. We've all been Walmarted down to expect fewer employees per customer, and scuffed floors, and less than pristine amenities. I assume Disney could double it's maintenance staff, but prices would probably go up, and rides would still shut down and litter would still gather.

I also think these boards are so full of jaded employees that the true guest experience is sometimes lost. As a guest, I rarely complain, but CMs see the lack of polish everyday. It's big to them, just like anyone who works for any employer sees more flaws than casual customers will see. My sister, a notorious grouch in her younger years, couldn't hold down a job, yet constantly predicted how her former employers were so messed up that they would go under. None of them did, and most did just fine (and grew) after she left.

 

[Disneydreamer23]

Its a park for families , for every one. I like all the rides though

 

[EnergyKing]

I fail to see what is wrong with that. If I spend multi thousand $$$$ on my vacation, I sure as hell am not going to be spending all my time looking for something to be wrong. I will concentrate on what I enjoy now or have enjoyed in the past because that is what Disney is all about. Two things actually suspension of disbelief and abandonment of negative. If I wanted to spend my whole day looking for problems I would have stayed at work and had massive amounts to find.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing to accentuate the positive and downplay the negative. That is what people spend multi thousand $$$$ to do. Why would anyone just look for problems when any problem that they might find in a place like WDW is really just an alteration of fantasy anyway.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with accentuating the positive...hell, that's what I did last time I went, and still had a zippadeedoodah good time, despite the occasional conversation about what I felt was lacking in the parks.

I don't think having grievances is the same as being jaded. A jaded person probably couldn't care less about Disney. I think people who are passionately going into depth about the experience are anything but jaded. Just look to the recent Epcot manifesto for proof of that.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with accentuating the positive...hell, that's what I did last time I went, and still had a zippadeedoodah good time, despite the occasional conversation about what I felt was lacking in the parks.

I don't think having grievances is the same as being jaded. A jaded person probably couldn't care less about Disney. I think people who are passionately going into depth about the experience are anything but jaded. Just look to the recent Epcot manifesto for proof of that.

I'm not arguing that point at all. What I'm saying is for many that is the first thing they say and then feel it necessary to sarcastically accuse those that do not search out problems as being suckers and "rubes" or worse. That is just totally uncalled for and beyond just incorrect. It shows their a lack of ability to see a glass as half full and to just follow a pessimistic outlook that not only dampens their enjoyment, but, they don't seem to be happy unless they can convince others of how awful things are. Is Disney different then 20 years ago. Yes, it certainly is. Some of it is worse and much of it is better. It depends on what area one chooses to focus on.

 

[EnergyKing]

I never considered myself to be a fangirl, but, I must be because I find that the plusing the PoTC with the addition of a highly lifelike AA of Capt. Jack, to be a very nice addition which did no harm to the story at all... it just re-enforced the story and made it more interesting.

Haunted Mansion interactive is outside the show building. It is just something that one can participate in or walk past. Once you get to the doors the experience is exactly the same. It seems to me that we, as mostly adults, should be able to compartmentalize our minds sufficiently to be nothing but a full sized smartphone screen to concentrate on while you wait to get to the actual show.

POTC has lost a lot of its mystery and eeriness due to the movie tie-ins. The original intro to the ride was one of the best mood-setters in my opinion, on par almost with the Haunted Mansion. The disembodied, echoing "dead men tell no tales" was unsettling, you literally had no idea what to expect. Now it's "hey, look, there's Geoffrey Rush from the movie!" And there are one too many Depp-bots for me. I wouldn't have been opposed to having one scene with him, a single callback to the film. Now it's kind of like a 3 dimensional trailer for the movie. Still fun to ride? Sure. As effective? Nope.

Thank God the HM interior hasn't been tainted yet, but there is something lost already going into the ride, a mounting dread. Maybe it matters to some and not to others. To me, yes it matters.

 

[EnergyKing]

I'm not arguing that point at all. What I'm saying is for many that is the first thing they say and then feel it necessary to sarcastically accuse those that do not search out problems as being suckers and "rubes" or worse. That is just totally uncalled for and beyond just incorrect. It shows their a lack of ability to see a glass as half full and to just follow a pessimistic outlook that not only dampens their enjoyment, but, they don't seem to be happy unless they can convince others of how awful things are. Is Disney different then 20 years ago. Yes, it certainly is. Some of it is worse and much of it is better. It depends on what area one chooses to focus on.

Oh, well no one should be insulted. I agree. I also think it goes both ways. A certain "just try to enjoy it and shut up" mentality. I don't think having constructive criticism makes you an ingrate.

 

[Goofyernmost]

POTC has lost a lot of its mystery and eeriness due to the movie tie-ins. The original intro to the ride was one of the best mood-setters in my opinion, on par almost with the Haunted Mansion. The disembodied, echoing "dead men tell no tales" was unsettling, you literally had no idea what to expect. Now it's "hey, look, there's Geoffrey Rush from the movie!" And there is one too many Depp-bots for me. I wouldn't have been opposed to having one scene with him, a single callback to the film. Now it's kind of like a 3 dimensional trailer for the movie. Still fun to ride? Sure. As effective? Nope.

Thank God the HM interior hasn't been tainted yet, but there is something lost already going into the ride, a mounting dread. Maybe it matters to some and not to others. To me, yes it matters.

Oh, come on... really... mounting dread? It's a theme park attraction. Nothing in either one should be scary to anyone above the age of 8.

 

[EnergyKing]

Oh, come on... really... mounting dread? It's a theme park attraction. Nothing in either one should be scary to anyone above the age of 8.

Sounds like you're the one who's jaded.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Oh, well no one should be insulted. I agree. I also think it goes both ways. A certain "just try to enjoy it and shut up" mentality. I don't think having constructive criticism makes you an ingrate.

Why not? Is being all upset about it changing anything? NO! Will it? NO! Is there anything there that is real, in the sense of affecting ones life after they leave the park? NO! So, no one has to shut up unless they can't get over themselves enough to realize that while watching for what is wrong, means missing a lot that is right. So, take your pick. It matters not to me.

Besides, constructive criticism is exactly what the "other" people are saying. You can't change it so the advice is find what there is to enjoy and enjoy that. Criticism is not reserved just for one point of view.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Sounds like you're the one who's jaded.

Not jaded at all. Everything there was put there for our enjoyment. Changing things or altering them away from our memories should not alter anyone's ability to enjoy what is offered. Unless we consciously force the issue.

 

[EnergyKing]

Why not? Is being all upset about it changing anything? NO! Will it? NO! Is there anything there that is real, in the sense of affecting ones life after they leave the park? NO! So, no one has to shut up unless they can't get over themselves enough to realize that while watching for what is wrong, means missing a lot that is right. So, take your pick. It matters not to me.

Besides, constructive criticism is exactly what the "other" people are saying. You can't change it so the advice is find what there is to enjoy and enjoy that. Criticism is not reserved just for one point of view.

You're under the impression that this is somehow ruining my life. I'm fine. On the other hand, you seem to be the one who is taking everything to heart. I'm just trying to have a conversation about creative matters within the parks.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You're under the impression that this is somehow ruining my life. I'm fine. On the other hand, you seem to be the one who is taking everything to heart. I'm just trying to have a conversation about creative matters within the parks.

Again, let's not carry things to extremes. I am stating general observations about a lot of posters, not just you. You are, however, continuing this conversation as if I am personally attacking you. It all started by saying that if I, or someone like myself, liked the addition to PoTC that I, or they, were Fangirls. I appreciate the addition of Capt. Jack because it made the great attraction a little more relevant to today's consciousness. You said it ruined the mood. I do not understand how. The new additions were still pirates and other then the fact that they look human and not cartoonish, to me just added to the theme. You do not see it that way, I understand that. However, to me it hasn't been a negative anymore then the stuff in the queue had one iota of an affect on Haunted Mansion, in my opinion. It's still the same mood inside. Those little gadgets on the outside are quickly forgotten when actually in the attraction.

To me that is creating a problem that just doesn't exist and thus the looking for a negative aspect to be part of this discussion. My return discussion is that to me it doesn't and why it doesn't. That is still a discussion, it just isn't an agreement. It's point/counterpoint!

 

[EnergyKing]

Again, let's not carry things to extremes. I am stating general observations about a lot of posters, not just you. You are, however, continuing this conversation as if I am personally attacking you. It all started by saying that if I, or someone like myself, liked the addition to PoTC that I, or they, were Fangirls. I appreciate the addition of Capt. Jack because it made the great attraction a little more relevant to today's consciousness. You said it ruined the mood. I do not understand how. The new additions were still pirates and other then the fact that they look human and not cartoonish, to me just added to the theme. You do not see it that way, I understand that. However, to me it hasn't been a negative anymore then the stuff in the queue had one iota of an affect on Haunted Mansion, in my opinion. It's still the same mood inside. Those little gadgets on the outside are quickly forgotten when actually in the attraction.

To me that is creating a problem that just doesn't exist and thus the looking for a negative aspect to be part of this discussion. My return discussion is that to me it doesn't and why it doesn't. That is still a discussion, it just isn't an agreement. It's point/counterpoint!

I don't feel attacked; it did seem like you were getting pretty angry there for a moment. Whatever. Friends?

Back to the rides...

I'm not looking for things that don't exist...they do exist. The interactive queue isn't some mass hallucination. It exists. It doesn't exactly spoil the entire ride for me, but it's emblematic of a certain problem that I perceive (which you don't, and that's totally okay) of having to make everything cuddly and cute and accessible for the children, lest they get bored or too scared. I think the queue is unnecessary and a bit too goofy considering the first half of the ride is meant to be a dark experience. Now, maybe if the interactive stuff was somewhere else in the post-ride (frankly still a bad idea) it would at least make more sense thematically because it follows the reveal of the friendly ghosts. Having it before the ride begins interrupts the mood and feels unnecessary. The new busts and statues don't even match the look of the original ride, it's too cartoony.

While on paper the new POTC makes narrative sense, it loses some of the creepiness and feelings of immersion for me. And it has dated the attraction. POTC without Depp and the other characters could play out for the next 50 years and not feel aged at all. But once you add those celebrities, the clock starts ticking.

 

[sxeensweet]

I'm not a kid and I can't wait to go back. People saying that MK has lost its way, I don't really see it. If its way was the boring Tom Sawyer Island and Hall of Presidents, well, fine, keep losing its way. I do understand how it's annoying for Frozen to be everywhere, and I do not agree with Hollywood Studios and EPCOT overly embracing Frozen, but I can't fault them for doing it, if I were in charge I'd likely try to do something similar (though, I wouldn't get rid of the backlot tour).

I think it's pretty easy to have fun there at any age. One thing I do miss, and just found out on this thread what they were called, are the seacabs. They were definitely better than the Nemo modification they did down there.

Agree! Me and DH even joined DVC with no plans to have children because we enjoy going that much. We love going just as "adults". Walt Disney wanted it to be enjoyed by all ages. I even ride lots of the "kiddie" rides every trip and will never tire of them!! So much for adults to do as well as young children.

 

[Matt_Black]

Indeed. As I told a co-worker, "If Walt Disney World is just for kids, then why do they serve liquor at Epcot?"

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Indeed. As I told a co-worker, "If Walt Disney World is just for kids, then why do they serve liquor at Epcot?"

Because toddlers can't bring themselves to WDW.

I think we all agree the today's WDW is catering to a more juvenile market than they did back in the '70s and '80s.