Do we lose track of the fact that WDW is really (in essence) for kids?

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
For the record, 2014 attendance in Orlando area was as follows:

1. Magic Kingdom 19,332,000
2. Epcot 11,454,000
3. Animal Kingdom 10,402,000
4. Hollywood Studios 10,312,000
5. Universal Orlando 8,263,000
6. Islands of Adv. 8,141,000
7. SeaWorld--Orlando 4,683,000
8. Busch Gards-Tampa 4,128,000

Doesn't sound like the Disney panic button needs to be pressed quite yet. And the old nostalgia of MK singlehandedly beat both Universals. MK and Epcot beat the other 4 combined.

Well..in all honesty our vacation dollar will be headed to Universal I think when we decide to pull the pin again on a theme park trip to Orlando. Maybe not panic button worthy but for a family that was going every other year religiously since 2006 and sadly we will not even be a blip on the radar but there you have it from a previous pixie dust addict. We may return someday to the house of mouse but not for quite some time.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
The thread's question is a good example of how people today commonly confuse "family entertainment" with "children's entertainment". It's why some parents are complaining about how their 3/4/5-year old wasn't engaged by Inside Out. Dora the Explorer and Snow White may both be appropriate for 5 year-olds, but one is not intended to be enjoyed by anyone beyond a certain demographic.

The hallmark and success of the Disney brand is entertainment with cross generational appeal. Producing something that is largely intended for young children and/or toddlers is very much going against the standard set by the company (not that I'm against toys and Disney Junior programming, I just don't want it to be the core, underlining "essence" of the brand).
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
The thread's question is a good example of how people today commonly confuse "family entertainment" with "children's entertainment". It's why some parents are complaining about how their 3/4/5-year old wasn't engaged by Inside Out. Dora the Explorer and Snow White may both be appropriate for 5 year-olds, but one is not intended to be enjoyed by anyone beyond a certain demographic.

The hallmark and success of the Disney brand is entertainment with cross generational appeal. Producing something that is largely intended for young children and/or toddlers is very much going against the standard set by the company (not that I'm against toys and Disney Junior programming, I just don't want it to be the core, underlining "essence" of the brand).
We must make a list sometime of the original attractions at Disneyland. Then we should separate all the rides/attractions that an adult would have gone to completely on their own, without kids in tow. I think we will find that if Disney hadn't pushed the thought that adults can ride with the kids (family friendly) then Disneyland would currently be a ghost town. Certain things were pretty well defined in the 50's. One of them was proper social behavioral differences between children and adults. The kids had to be convinced that what was there was going to be fun for them. The parents had to be convinced that they wouldn't lose face and social standing enjoying themselves while in the company of the kids. The way to do that is to encourage parents to ride along with their kids. Exposure like that is what allowed later generations to be freer to enjoy something, on their own, that previously would have caused ridicule.

WDW is for everyone. Not just kids. Everyone. It should and can appeal to everyone.
When you locate the pathway to that particular parallel universe where everyone likes the same things, please publish the road map. I'd kind of like to visit there. The only goal that they can possibly aim for is to provide enough different things that people can pick from to provide them with something interesting to do for everyone during the course of a day. However, the other goal is to stay as close as possible to not excluding either the child or the adult. When that stops happening then you will have lost what made the place special.
 

mikenatcity1

Well-Known Member
A lot of my friends say the same thing- it's for kids...but in reality it's for everyone. Look at Disney Cruise Line- tons of areas of adults (i've been on a couple cruises with almost no kids, just adults enjoying Disney). I don't have kids and love to go to the parks and enjoy it. Does it mean I push kids out of the way for everything? Nope! I keep in mind the magic that Disney has created that almost every kid that goes loves and remembers for a life time :)
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
For the record, 2014 attendance in Orlando area was as follows:

1. Magic Kingdom 19,332,000
2. Epcot 11,454,000
3. Animal Kingdom 10,402,000
4. Hollywood Studios 10,312,000
5. Universal Orlando 8,263,000
6. Islands of Adv. 8,141,000
7. SeaWorld--Orlando 4,683,000
8. Busch Gards-Tampa 4,128,000

Doesn't sound like the Disney panic button needs to be pressed quite yet. And the old nostalgia of MK singlehandedly beat both Universals. MK and Epcot beat the other 4 combined.

I don't track Universal's attendance. (That's other people's wheelhouse) However.... in the past 10 years, MK & the resort as a whole have grown 20%. Epcot at 16%, DAK at 26%. Out of those 10 years, the previous 3 are showing a troubling trend in how the Disney parks are growing; MK's growth rate is double that of the other parks. Since 2011, MK grew 13% while the other parks are right around 6%, resort as a whole is around 8.5%.

Its a troublesome trend.
 

EnergyKing

Well-Known Member
One problem on these forums, is that there are a lot of hyper critical "experts" who seem to believe it is their job to catalog every flaw they can find in WDW.
Some seem to have lost the kid in themselves, or perhaps should go to the parks with kids - in order to get a different perspective.

There are other threads, you know?

Scroll down, problem solved!
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I don't track Universal's attendance. (That's other people's wheelhouse) However.... in the past 10 years, MK & the resort as a whole have grown 20%. Epcot at 16%, DAK at 26%. Out of those 10 years, the previous 3 are showing a troubling trend in how the Disney parks are growing; MK's growth rate is double that of the other parks. Since 2011, MK grew 13% while the other parks are right around 6%, resort as a whole is around 8.5%.

Its a troublesome trend.
It is troublesome to some degree, but, everything has got to be factored in. I have said before and I will repeat... percentages mean absolutely nothing. It depends on where it started. For example, revenue wise what would be better 13% of 19,000,000 or 20 percent of 10,000,000? Everything has a ceiling someplace. If Mk is crowded now, what would happen if it continued at 13%? Just the numbers will automatically reduce the percentage if everything remained the same actual, count wise. The comparison (Uni) was much smaller to begin with and had a lot more room for growth. Percentages do not pay the bills, head counts do. It only represents a decline in percentage not in business. There has to be a place where it is not only unreasonable to expect the same percentage of growth and even where it becomes unwise to even try due to the inability to take care of the additional.

Take the 19 mil. and add another 13% increase. That would be a head count of 2.5 million. At this stage in the game would that even be doable. In my opinion MK does not have a enough room to continue even on the pace it is at, much less increase it. That is why it is wise to concentrate on the other 3 parks to disperse whatever additional growth and spread them out a bit. Also, I believe, the main motivation for MM+... control of crowd locations.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
It is troublesome to some degree, but, everything has got to be factored in. I have said before and I will repeat... percentages mean absolutely nothing. It depends on where it started. For example, revenue wise what would be better 13% of 19,000,000 or 20 percent of 10,000,000? Everything has a ceiling someplace. If Mk is crowded now, what would happen if it continued at 13%? Just the numbers will automatically reduce the percentage if everything remained the same actual, count wise. The comparison (Uni) was much smaller to begin with and had a lot more room for growth. Percentages do not pay the bills, head counts do. It only represents a decline in percentage not in business. There has to be a place where it is not only unreasonable to expect the same percentage of growth and even where it becomes unwise to even try due to the inability to take care of the additional.

Take the 19 mil. and add another 13% increase. That would be a head count of 2.5 million. At this stage in the game would that even be doable. In my opinion MK does not have a enough room to continue even on the pace it is at, much less increase it. That is why it is wise to concentrate on the other 3 parks to disperse whatever additional growth and spread them out a bit. Also, I believe, the main motivation for MM+... control of crowd locations.

Couple thoughts:

1 - I'm always clear with the timeframe I'm discussing. I'm not going to cherrypick my data one way or the other. Yes its important to know where we start in that all percentages are not equal. What I'm trying to show is growth over a long-term and working with what little data I can.

2 - I firmly believe that MK is under-reported and is over 20M guests a year... I just cant prove it. (And there's no way anyone is going to give me the actual numbers from inside the company.) We very well may be at that additional 1-2M guests threshold.... and so far this summer, MK is pretty packed.
 

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
Also, Mk added the new Fantasyland, which explains how it increased more than the others. Epcot and AK haven't really added much, and Studios is perceived to be losing ground in some ways. Avatarland should shoot up AK.

The surprising point is that Harry Potter still has not pushed either Universal park beyond WDW's weakest park. And MK, the old nostalgic what've-you-done-for-me-lately stuck in the past also ran, single-handedly outdrew them both. Plus, factor in the idea that Disney owns marvel, and probably gets a huge licensing fee for much of the money that goes into Universal. It's much like the east end shows of London and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Webber owned Cats, Evita, Phantom of the Opera and Sunset Blvd, raking in millions every year. The only huge show he didn't own was Les Miserables, but he actually owned the theatre where Les Mis played, thus profiting from his only true competition. Disney's doing the same thing with Universal, with a percentage of every Universal dollar going to Disney. Not bad.

Hotelwise, I also assume WDW hugely outdraws Universal in rooms rented, price per room, occupancy rates, and every other meaningful factor. This doesn't give permission for Disney to get lax, but it does reinforce the notion that Disney is doing something very right.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Couple thoughts:

1 - I'm always clear with the timeframe I'm discussing. I'm not going to cherrypick my data one way or the other. Yes its important to know where we start in that all percentages are not equal. What I'm trying to show is growth over a long-term and working with what little data I can.

2 - I firmly believe that MK is under-reported and is over 20M guests a year... I just cant prove it. (And there's no way anyone is going to give me the actual numbers from inside the company.) We very well may be at that additional 1-2M guests threshold.... and so far this summer, MK is pretty packed.
I agree, but, I wasn't talking about any particular time frame, the same statistics apply to any time frame you might want to come up with. It was not arguing the numbers, it was arguing the significance of the numbers in relation to what it actually tells us. I used your numbers as a base point, not to cherry pick them. I could have used any number and the same basic thought would have applied.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I agree, but, I wasn't talking about any particular time frame, the same statistics apply to any time frame you might want to come up with. It was not arguing the numbers, it was arguing the significance of the numbers in relation to what it actually tells us. I used your numbers as a base point, not to cherry pick them. I could have used any number and the same basic thought would have applied.

Yeah, I prefer actual numbers as well. That does get lost on some people and they are just interested in growth. I'll take a 2-3% growth of 20M people than a 10% growth of 10M any day of the week.

Still is fun to look at....
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
Also, Mk added the new Fantasyland, which explains how it increased more than the others. Epcot and AK haven't really added much, and Studios is perceived to be losing ground in some ways. Avatarland should shoot up AK.

The surprising point is that Harry Potter still has not pushed either Universal park beyond WDW's weakest park. And MK, the old nostalgic what've-you-done-for-me-lately stuck in the past also ran, single-handedly outdrew them both. Plus, factor in the idea that Disney owns marvel, and probably gets a huge licensing fee for much of the money that goes into Universal. It's much like the east end shows of London and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Webber owned Cats, Evita, Phantom of the Opera and Sunset Blvd, raking in millions every year. The only huge show he didn't own was Les Miserables, but he actually owned the theatre where Les Mis played, thus profiting from his only true competition. Disney's doing the same thing with Universal, with a percentage of every Universal dollar going to Disney. Not bad.

Hotelwise, I also assume WDW hugely outdraws Universal in rooms rented, price per room, occupancy rates, and every other meaningful factor. This doesn't give permission for Disney to get lax, but it does reinforce the notion that Disney is doing something very right.
In a way, I wish that Uni would draw higher numbers, for this simple reason-if the leader in a certain market, whatever it may be, has a large percentage of the market, with no real competition, there is really nothing driving the market leader to continually improve. If the leader starts to lose market share, they realize that improvements must be made to widen the gap again. So, if the numbers at Uni started to increase at a steady rate, even if WDW numbers weren't going down, it would force the bean counters to realize that entertainment $ are being spent more and more at places other than WDW, and one would hope that this would lead to the conclusion that more time, effort and money must be spent in maintaining and growing all aspects of the parks & resorts. If you offer basically the same thing all the time, and you charge more for it every year, and people are still coming in droves, where is the incentive to improve?
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
In a way, I wish that Uni would draw higher numbers, for this simple reason-if the leader in a certain market, whatever it may be, has a large percentage of the market, with no real competition, there is really nothing driving the market leader to continually improve. If the leader starts to lose market share, they realize that improvements must be made to widen the gap again. So, if the numbers at Uni started to increase at a steady rate, even if WDW numbers weren't going down, it would force the bean counters to realize that entertainment $ are being spent more and more at places other than WDW, and one would hope that this would lead to the conclusion that more time, effort and money must be spent in maintaining and growing all aspects of the parks & resorts. If you offer basically the same thing all the time, and you charge more for it every year, and people are still coming in droves, where is the incentive to improve?
Universal has gone from 14% market share in 2007 to 22.4% market share now. They are aiming at 40%-45%.

There is absolutely no reason for Disney to even notice what Un i is doing up the road.
 

LauraRose

Well-Known Member
Am I the only one who rides a ride and simply enjoys it? I don't spend time thinking "Well, they cut the story line short, they should have continued on and soonandsoonandsoon. That doesn't sound like any fun to me.

I was thinking this the other day when I look at how my parents just enjoy it and don't care about little stupid things. When I first joined this board I was shocked on such small things people complain about...
 

TubaGeek

God bless the "Ignore" button.
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