For a castle park that would be acceptable. Not for the park formerly known as Epcot.
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Distinction between "theme park enthusiast" and "Disney Adult"
- Thread starter Tom Morrow
- Start date
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
The Disney adult thing is interesting. Partly, less adults are starting families. Disney fans would typically become Disney families taking kids and then grandchildren to Disney. Now there are people like me, Middle Aged with no kids but never completely “outgrew” Disney - it’s a social thing for sure.
At the same time, Disney is morphing from the Eisner era where you had deluxe hotels, AAA Diamond rated restaurants, and amazing architecture and details into the Iger era of plastic Disney IP everywhere.
Illuminations vs. Harmonious is the ultimate example.
At the same time, Disney is morphing from the Eisner era where you had deluxe hotels, AAA Diamond rated restaurants, and amazing architecture and details into the Iger era of plastic Disney IP everywhere.
Illuminations vs. Harmonious is the ultimate example.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I think it would even be okay at EPCOT if the IP was used in an educational manner. Nemo could have easily been added to the Living Seas without taking away from the educational aspect, but instead they just built a standard ride (and a very bad one at that) that is solely about the IP. Ratatouille is set in Paris, but that's about it -- it's just an attraction about Remy rather than Paris or France as a whole, but it could have been worse. Frozen Ever After is worse in that it's set in a fantasy kingdom and doesn't even attempt to tie itself to real Norway or Scandinavia in general, nor does it do anything to educate or showcase real world culture.
Cosmic Rewind does at least attempt to tie itself to EPCOT and be educational in the queue, but it's not a very good effort -- and the ride itself is completely divorced from that.
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I think I blinked and missed it.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
I’d bet Frozen already has or eventually will inspire more people to go to Norway than Maelstrom did.It is still a fanasy story made up for entertainment and no other message other then personal things. Therefore, use whatever name anybody wants it is still the same thing. A creation of imagination, with maybe a resemblance of another I.P. years ago but can be anywhere that it's cold and it fits. Probably wouldn't work if the name of the town were Orlandale.
Look at New Zealand via LOTR.
…which then takes you to an actual aquarium. That’ll do.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I think you are glossing over the difference between Disney IP used for an appropriately topic attraction.. and Disney IP used for an attraction that just is forced with some lame connection.
For instance... original epcot tried to be devoid of Disney characters... that's the extreme. But what if Donald was your host or sidekick on something like Universe of Energy? Or whomever was the host in Imagination, etc. That is where you can have Disney IP and still have an attraction that is trying to fit with EPCOT. When you just drop a ride in and say "Oh, Mary Poppins is british.. so it works for England" -- that is the other end of the extreme that conflicts so much with EPCOT.
EPCOT's themes and purposes were more than just nationalities or physical geographies. Which is why no amount of 'Frozen is norway!' makes the frozen ride fit in Norway's pavilion in the classic EPCOT sense.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
World Showcase is working on two tracks now: you’ll eventually have more countries with not just the dining and shopping, but also an attraction where at least the IP is derived from the given country.
First, let’s not pretend these are accurate contemporary representations of countries. Neither is any pavilion a great teacher. You’ll learn as much about Italy visiting Epcot as you will from a postcard.
We’re not there to learn about countries; we’re there to experience a tiny taste, which may inspire us to visit the real place.
Theme parks in other countries (that have them) have pointless, fun rides, I’m sure.
If riding ratatouille and enjoying some French food sticks in some kid’s memory and makes them want to visit, great. If not, good times are good times. WDW isn’t Wikipedia.
If you want to teach your kids about Germany, go ahead.
First, let’s not pretend these are accurate contemporary representations of countries. Neither is any pavilion a great teacher. You’ll learn as much about Italy visiting Epcot as you will from a postcard.
We’re not there to learn about countries; we’re there to experience a tiny taste, which may inspire us to visit the real place.
Theme parks in other countries (that have them) have pointless, fun rides, I’m sure.
If riding ratatouille and enjoying some French food sticks in some kid’s memory and makes them want to visit, great. If not, good times are good times. WDW isn’t Wikipedia.
If you want to teach your kids about Germany, go ahead.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
The part that everyone is missing is that they were trying to find some way to breath life into a dead Pavilion. It wasn't about matching anything. What it was, however is what saved the pavilion and brought people into the general park. It was the thing that closest fit the general vibe of Norway that guaranteed would get families with children to come to the park. It is far better than a closed or razed pavilion and one more notch on the death bed of what we knew as Epcot. As noble as the original intent of Epcot was, it didn't fly. It lost its luster quickly and needed a new direction that had no emphasis on edutainment but still left a little just less in your face. When I line up all the hair brained things that Disney has done in the last few years, in my mind, that was one of the things that they did right and may have saved Epcot in the long run.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
I'm a Walt Disney fan. As long as the parks with his name on them live up to his standards of quality, innovation, and plussing, then I like those parks. If they fall short, then there are other, better places to go.
LeighM
Well-Known Member
Genuinely curious - how do you feel about the addition of Norse mythology in the Stave Church to promote Marvel? I can't remember which exhibits were there first but I remember being happier with the mythology addition than what was there during an earlier trip (which I think was Frozen - can't remember bc I didn't really like it).
Especially when you consider Disney adding Norway to their Adventure By Disney lineup
I grew up going to BGW yearly and I truly can't say that they do a better job with the European theming than Epcot in World Showcase. Especially now with their focus on bigger and faster roller coasters - not very family/ADA friendly anymore. What they did to the Irish village near the drawbridge is ridiculously ugly. It was so much nicer 20+ years ago than it is today. The last time I was at BGW for Christmastown, I was extremely disappointed with the narrow, congested walkways that hadn't been widened in decades and the smell of spilled beer caused by drunk people acting the fool. Much like the 20 somethings that were gyrating against each other, the "men" lifting the "women" above their heads with their hands gripping the females crotches while both were yelling a bunch of vulgarities while the employees ignored it all. BGW changed after that company purchased it from Anheuser Busch. I was hoping when SeaWorld bought it back, that things would start to improve and go back to how it was. But it's not. It doesn't seem like their focus is really on preserving that European themed park.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Busch Gardens has always been a coaster heavy park. I know it's not everyone's thing but at least they try to make new coasters fit the theming of the area. Most regional parks don't do a lot of family rides.Genuinely curious - how do you feel about the addition of Norse mythology in the Stave Church to promote Marvel? I can't remember which exhibits were there first but I remember being happier with the mythology addition than what was there during an earlier trip (which I think was Frozen - can't remember bc I didn't really like it).
Especially when you consider Disney adding Norway to their Adventure By Disney lineup
I grew up going to BGW yearly and I truly can't say that they do a better job with the European theming than Epcot in World Showcase. Especially now with their focus on bigger and faster roller coasters - not very family/ADA friendly anymore. What they did to the Irish village near the drawbridge is ridiculously ugly. It was so much nicer 20+ years ago than it is today. The last time I was at BGW for Christmastown, I was extremely disappointed with the narrow, congested walkways that hadn't been widened in decades and the smell of spilled beer caused by drunk people acting the fool. Much like the 20 somethings that were gyrating against each other, the "men" lifting the "women" above their heads with their hands gripping the females crotches while both were yelling a bunch of vulgarities while the employees ignored it all. BGW changed after that company purchased it from Anheuser Busch. I was hoping when SeaWorld bought it back, that things would start to improve and go back to how it was. But it's not. It doesn't seem like their focus is really on preserving that European themed park.
As far as Epcot goes, Remy fits as the IP is based in France. As much as I dislike IP in Epcot at least Remy fits the area its in. That's my issue with almost everything they do now. They don't seem to have a plan for IP, they plop where they can.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
And that's the plan! You found it! They are trying to make Epcot the same but different than MK. That is what draws people in and MK needs some relief right now. What you seem to see as negative, I see as trying to compromise and make it something for everyone with fun fantasy things to see or do. So far I haven't seen anything that is not easily mentally connected to whatever pavilion they decided to fix. Imagination should be the next major target. Either expand the concept back to the Imagination it once was or find a new IP like Inside Out, massive numbers of ideas that they could work with, bright colors, adult and kid type of displays, positive endings and lots of visual stimulation and still a hidden edutainment.
Figment is really different and out of place in the current showings. If they changed Figment back to the cute, inquisitive and excitable character that he originally was would make it much better. They have him as a brat now and only there because people demanded that he come back into the attraction. Instead they got his nasty little brother. Still better then what immediately proceeded it (2.0), but at least it is still open and those extremely creative and financial advisors cannot think of anything to do with two thirds of the building. And they wonder why so many of us have been critical of what has been happening to the most scenic and relaxing visual experience of any park I have ever visited.
JMcMahonEsq
Well-Known Member
Roller coasters are not draws, to the general marketplace. There is a reason vacation destinations like WDW or even Universal are not FEATURED roller coaster parks. There is a reason that if you compare attendance figures for WDW and say Cedar Point (the leader in roller costers) one is way ahead of the other. Families with tighter than ever budgets are NOT spending thousands of dollars to fly and stay down in Orlando...just for a single coaster. Sure you might get a couple or roller coaster enthusiasts that potentially do it. But those are niche people. They aren't the customer base or the driving market. It's a feature, its a cherry on top of the sunday that maybe gets someone who was already in the mindset of visiting the Orlando area book a trip this year, or make sure your vacation includes a day in Universal to get on the ride.
As to Nintendo IP, I loved SMB, and the sequels.... but MB is OLD (so am I ,lol). Top sales of games in the US market haven't including a MB title in decades. First person shooters and Madden have dominated the market for the past 2 decades. Other than the upcoming movie (which to be fair I saw the preview to during Avatar and its looks ok) where is the current relevant SMB/Nintendo IP? Where are the movies/TV shows/books/online presence that is driving interest in Nintendo. That isn't to say that there isn't some value in it as an IP base (although i think more popular and relevant in Japan than in US market) but it is steps below any argument as being the draw either Disney IP or Harry Potter is. That leaves aside the fact that the rides themselves are just not that great.
OrlandoRising
Well-Known Member
And we're back to Epcot purism. Yawn.
Not really. Just an understanding of theme parks. And standards.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
It's not about purism at all. At one time each park felt different and had a different theme. The problem is the GP of today. They care less about themes of the park and more about seeing IP every where.
OrlandoRising
Well-Known Member
Two Mario Kart games are among the top 20 best-selling games of the 2010s, with nearly 40 million in sales up to the end of 2019. Three more games that feature Mario are in the 21-30 slots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_in_video_games
No, it's dogmatic purism, Martin. You and your ilk seem to believe Epcot has to adhere to its original form and refuse to accept or even consider change.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
It's not about accepting change. There is ways to add IP to Epcot without changing the theme of the park. My question to you is why do we need to have all the parks feel similar? Why do most people care more about the IP and less about the ride being good? IMO FOP was the last impressive attraction Disney created.