Distinction between "theme park enthusiast" and "Disney Adult"

[celluloid]

This is my biggest issue with trackless. They all have at least one major scene that looks/feels a giant warehouse with a ton of empty floor space -- Rise is probably the best at avoiding this, but that's mainly because giant open rooms fit the IP setting.

Very true. There are often not alcoves and just positioning in front of the next piece of scenery or screen. The obligatory vehicles dancing around is sometimes not organic to the story or concept. Mystic Manor and Rise seem to do this best.

Reign of Kong at Universal is interesting in the sense it uses the different trackless tech only to give you the idea that the vehicle really is a big old truck being driven by a real driver(animatronic)
I wish the vehicle system would have been somewhat better used for a few effects but the outside area is a really cool use for the trackless kinetic energy and first outdoor turn around when available.

 

[surfsupdon]

I grew up at Caribbean Beach. For us kids, it was staying at Disney, but in the theme of the Caribbean Islands. We loved it.

I remember being shocked as a 7yo seeing new pool signage featuring Sebastian and Flounder?! Why were they here???? It stood out as something that did not fit. It only got worse from there, and as we go into the ‘20s, it is worse than ever.

I appreciate themed environments. And sometimes IP really ruins that theme.

 

[surfsupdon]

This is my biggest issue with trackless. They all have at least one major scene that looks/feels a giant warehouse with a ton of empty floor space -- Rise is probably the best at avoiding this, but that's mainly because giant open rooms fit the IP setting.

The beauty of Mr Toad, Snow White, and the DL dark rides is the intamicy of the scenes. Small rooms, trap doors, tons of scenery, and tight spaces. They are still fantastic.

WDW trackless rides aren’t intimate. Warehouse style. Make the ride trackless but keep the rooms tight, narrow, and madcap.

 

[UNCgolf]

The beauty of Mr Toad, Snow White, and the DL dark rides is the intamicy of the scenes. Small rooms, trap doors, tons of scenery, and tight spaces. They are still fantastic.

WDW trackless rides aren’t intimate. Warehouse style. Make the ride trackless but keep the rooms tight, narrow, and madcap.

Thing is, if you make them small and intimate, there's less reason to use the trackless system -- I assume a tracked ride is cheaper to build and easier to run, although I could be wrong.

I'm sure there's a way to use the trackless system to its full potential that doesn't require a big warehouse for the vehicles to roam around in, but I'm not sure it's happened yet.

 

[Goofyernmost]

This is my biggest issue with trackless. They all have at least one major scene that looks/feels a giant warehouse with a ton of empty floor space -- Rise is probably the best at avoiding this, but that's mainly because giant open rooms fit the IP setting.

Does it also lack Immersion when you see or are attached to the ride vehicles of PotC, HM, Splash or Space Mountain, SSE, Seats and Feet on Soarin, Jungle Cruise, Horizon and others. I don't think any of that matters and the feeling of time and space is a very subjective item generated from within ourselves.

 

[UNCgolf]

Does it also lack Immersion when you see or are attached to the ride vehicles of PotC, HM, Splash or Space Mountain, SSE, Seats and Feet on Soarin, Jungle Cruise, Horizon and others. I don't think any of that matters and the feeling of time and space is a very subjective item generated from within ourselves.

I don't care about seeing the other ride vehicles -- that's not the problem. It's not immersive when you're in a giant, empty warehouse.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I think part of why I am not impressed with it is that I find trackless rides very meh. A lot of that has to do with them not being immersive enough. IMO it loses the immersiveness when you see the other vehicles on the ride with you.

Huh? What are you talking about? What track based ride don’t you see other ride vehicles in? Haunted Manson, Peter Pan, pirates, small world, every track ride you are in line of site of the vehicle in front and behind you

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don't care about seeing the other ride vehicles -- that's not the problem. It's not immersive when you're in a giant, empty warehouse.

No offense intended, but, just about everything in a theme park requires you to complete the immersion. Disney can't do it all. If you are looking at a giant warehouse instead of a show stage that's on you. Do you hate Small World for the same problem? How about Pirates. A lot of show scenes but still in a big "warehouse" building. I always felt that if I focus on the show and not completely on the surroundings I was able to not even notice it until about the 20th time I rode them. If the show itself doesn't completely draw you in, then that is a Disney problem not the building it is in.

 

[Lilofan]

People of all ages have always loved Disney, but in the last decade the trend of the "Disney Adult" has grown tremendously. A "Disney Adult" isn't just an adult that enjoys Disney, but rather an adult that has made Disney, the brand, their entire lifestyle and personality. We see them everywhere now. They go to the parks "Disney-bounding" and gush over every single shoe-horned character insertion. They vlog about it. They become social media "influencers" entirely around it. They largely don't know and don't care about WDW's history and legacy, and applaud at classic, beloved stuff being removed in place of new, lazy IP insertions. They see the new characters on the Epcot parking lot signs and think "wow, so cute!" because thematic integrity doesn't matter to them, and they can't even comprehend why others would be upset about it. To them, Disney Parks = a celebration of Disney IP and nothing more.

The distinction between the Disney Adult and someone who simply loves quality theme parks and themed entertainment has to be made clear. I would wager that most of us on here are the latter. Enjoying Disney media alone does not make one a "Disney Adult", but even if you fully embrace that, you're likely here on WDWMAGIC because you also loved WDW for the unique, one-of-a-kind quality immersive experience it provided.

For most of WDW's existence, it was possible to have a WDW vacation without being constantly bombarded by Disney, the brand. Sure, the characters and IP were always there, but they weren't everywhere. There was always a balance. You could spend a week at WDW and see very little "Disney" stuff if you wanted. You could love WDW for everything it had to offer without being someone who cares about Disney, the brand, and their IP. This is, unfortunately, no longer the case, and the company is rapidly moving further and further away from that version of WDW.

The irony, is that for most of WDW's existence, WDW adult fans often had to justify their enthusiasm because WDW has never been good at marketing itself as a place with something for everyone in its advertising, always instead opting for shots of characters hugging kids and teacups and Dumbo. "Why do you like Disney World so much? Isn't it just for kids?" "Well no, actually, (massive list of awesome all-ages and even some adult-oriented things to do)." At which point that person could, if they cared enough, do some research into all that WDW actually offers and see that you were right.

But today, the opposite is true, WDW IS that version of itself it has always marketed, where you are bombarded with characters and IP at every step. The current version of WDW caters almost exclusively to kids and the Disney Adults who eat the branding up. Those of us who are simply lovers of theme parks and themed entertainment now have to justify that we like it, largely because of how it used to be, and not because of the Disney-brand fest that it now is.

So yeah. A Disney Adult and a fan of WDW/Disney Parks, while not exclusive, are not the same.

Back in the day during the adults only infamous Pleasure Island nights , I met fellow guests who were locals who had no desire to go to the parks. They loved getting drunk , partying in PI nightclubs until 2am nightly and viewing the midnight fireworks . Classifying as a Disney Adult would be subjective.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Back in the day during the adults only infamous Pleasure Island nights , I met fellow guests who were locals who had no desire to go to the parks. They loved getting drunk , partying in PI nightclubs until 2am nightly and viewing the midnight fireworks . Classifying as a Disney Adult would be subjective.

Anyone that can afford to pay the prices that Disney charged per drink and then drink enough to get joyously drunk, are Disney shackled in one form or the other. I went to Pleasure Island only two times. I went to the Comedy show and listened to the outside music, watched the drunks and made one visit to Adventurers Club. That was different and quite entertaining, but it relied on people buying a lot of drinks there and I noticed that, like myself, most people bought one and nursed it through the whole program. Since they relied on alcohol sales to support it, it didn't surprise me that it ended and not likely to be resurrected. It had to be an expensive show to put on. That was during the time that they were not charging admission to the island.

 

[UNCgolf]

No offense intended, but, just about everything in a theme park requires you to complete the immersion. Disney can't do it all. If you are looking at a giant warehouse instead of a show stage that's on you. Do you hate Small World for the same problem? How about Pirates. A lot of show scenes but still in a big "warehouse" building. I always felt that if I focus on the show and not completely on the surroundings I was able to not even notice it until about the 20th time I rode them. If the show itself doesn't completely draw you in, then that is a Disney problem not the building it is in.

You're missing the point. "Empty" was the operative word.

The fact that they are in a large warehouse isn't the problem. Almost every ride is. It's that on trackless rides, they generally don't hide it in at least some scenes because they can't. They need a big, open, unthemed floor, which breaks the show. Other rides don't have that issue. It's a problem with the trackless system, or at least how it's been used.

 

[Lilofan]

Anyone that can afford to pay the prices that Disney charged per drink and then drink enough to get joyously drunk, are Disney shackled in one form or the other. I went to Pleasure Island only two times. I went to the Comedy show and listened to the outside music, watched the drunks and made one visit to Adventurers Club. That was different and quite entertaining, but it relied on people buying a lot of drinks there and I noticed that, like myself, most people bought one and nursed it through the whole program. Since they relied on alcohol sales to support it, it didn't surprise me that it ended and not likely to be resurrected. It had to be an expensive show to put on. That was during the time that they were not charging admission to the island.

Pleasure Island lasted many years and was an awesome time every time we went. Lots of drinking in the nightclubs . I recall Thursday night was huge at PI. It was weekly cast member night and the island was full of cast drinking and dancing the night away.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

You're missing the point. "Empty" was the operative word.

The fact that they are in a large warehouse isn't the problem. Almost every ride is. It's that on trackless rides, they generally don't hide it in at least some scenes because they can't. They need a big, open, unthemed floor, which breaks the show. Other rides don't have that issue. It's a problem with the trackless system, or at least how it's been used.

I am curious where do you see this being a problem? The only ride I can think this would apply to is Runaway Railway, as you do have some big "empty" warehouse feeling rooms. You certainly don't feel that in RoTR. The big setting and starship interior feel I would argue is one of the more immersive experiences I have ever had.

Rat doesn't suffer from this either. I think they do a great job of themeing and there isn't really a ton of unused open space.

Maybe you could argue the last room in Beauty and the Beast feels a little empty, but you're supposed to be in a large ballroom dancing around Belle and the Beast. Your ride vehicle is actually part of the themeing of the room in a very real sense. The rest of the ride I think is themed really well you never feel like you're in wide open "unused" spaces.

But overall I don't see any of these rides creating an overly empty/missing feeling. Certainly nothing outside the feelings from Small World or even Peter Pan.

 

[UNCgolf]

I am curious where do you see this being a problem? The only ride I can think this would apply to is Runaway Railway, as you do have some big "empty" warehouse feeling rooms. You certainly don't feel that in RoTR. The big setting and starship interior feel I would argue is one of the more immersive experiences I have ever had.

Rat doesn't suffer from this either. I think they do a great job of themeing and there isn't really a ton of unused open space.

Maybe you could argue the last room in Beauty and the Beast feels a little empty, but you're supposed to be in a large ballroom dancing around Belle and the Beast. Your ride vehicle is actually part of the themeing of the room in a very real sense. The rest of the ride I think is themed really well you never feel like you're in wide open "unused" spaces.

But overall I don't see any of these rides creating an overly empty/missing feeling. Certainly nothing outside the feelings from Small World or even Peter Pan.

Rise gets away with it, as I said above, because it fits the IP. I don't think it's an issue on that ride, and Mystic Manor does it the best other than Rise.

The snow scene is probably the biggest problem in Beauty and the Beast -- the theming is essentially all on the outskirts with the middle of the area blank so the vehicles can move around. That would be ameliorated if the scene didn't last so long, though.

MMRR has it as a general issue since the ride is mostly projections, but the Daisy dance studio scene is the worst -- it does technically fit the theme of the scene, but I don't think that scene fits well with the rest of the ride.

In Winnie the Pooh, it's the Heffalumps and Woozles part, although even some of the earlier Hundred Acre Woods areas have a bit too much open floor space. It's not that those aren't still well-themed areas in general for the most part, it's that the abundance of blank floor space is distracting from the theming.

Rat is a bit different. While it is trackless, it's different from the other trackless rides because most of the experience takes place on a screen in front of you. The actual trackless movement is a relatively small portion of the ride and avoids the problem. I wasn't really thinking about it as a trackless ride because of that, even though it technically is.

Anyways, that doesn't mean I think they're bad attractions -- I'd love to have the Winnie the Pooh and Beauty and the Beast rides at WDW. I just think it's a flaw.

 

[celluloid]

The beauty of Mr Toad, Snow White, and the DL dark rides is the intamicy of the scenes. Small rooms, trap doors, tons of scenery, and tight spaces. They are still fantastic.

WDW trackless rides aren’t intimate. Warehouse style. Make the ride trackless but keep the rooms tight, narrow, and madcap.

And the cars, although trackless, are in a train sequence, so the timing of something dramatically happening is also rarely intimate. The last car on MMRR is awful.

Great rides and lands go back and forth with tight and expansive scenes then intimidate again, and there are only a couple of spots near the beginning and the drain pipe sequence where things are close.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You're missing the point. "Empty" was the operative word.

The fact that they are in a large warehouse isn't the problem. Almost every ride is. It's that on trackless rides, they generally don't hide it in at least some scenes because they can't. They need a big, open, unthemed floor, which breaks the show. Other rides don't have that issue. It's a problem with the trackless system, or at least how it's been used.

OK, I'm sure we all see things differently, I just never have thought of it that way, but we all have our own opinions.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It had to be an expensive show to put on.

Adventurers Club? It was a handful of actors and a piano player.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Rat doesn't suffer from this either. I think they do a great job of themeing and there isn't really a ton of unused open space.

There are a few parts where the floor is notably open to accommodate all three vehicles. Especially whenever all three cars are facing the same screen. It results in not feeling immersed in what's on the screen and also being able to see where the screen and the ride floor meet. In Spider-Man and Transformers, the vehicles frame your view of the screen so you are immersed in it and don't see the floo.

MMRR has it as a general issue since the ride is mostly projections, but the Daisy dance studio scene is the worst -- it does technically fit the theme of the scene, but I don't think that scene fits well with the rest of the ride.

The Daisy dance studio is jarring because it's the only set that looks "real world". I still like it though because of the absurd cartoon logic behind it. (We're on a runaway train... the train just happens to stop and dance along with Daisy, who doesn't acknowledge or seem to care that we're "in danger".)

 

[Goofyernmost]

Adventurers Club? It was a handful of actors and a piano player.

Plus all kinds of animatronics, staff and more than one show. I don't know how much the actors were paid but I doubt it was minimum wage.

 

[Lilofan]

Plus all kinds of animatronics, staff and more than one show. I don't know how much the actors were paid but I doubt it was minimum wage.

Equity actors are paid well above minimum wage. The risk is once the show closes they are out of a job.