Disney's Live Action The Little Mermaid

[celluloid]

Avatar is one of the biggest outliers of this ever. It's why so many people thought an Avatar land was a bad idea. It left almost zero pop culture footprint. A lot of people laugh at the idea of stuff like Halloween costumes. But it is a decent gauge of how something is trending. Like you said, it's not the end all be all, but it does give some good insight in my opinion.

And even if you don't look for Halloween costumes.

Toys. Kids toys for this did not sell the way Marvel, Star Wars or even Ghostbusters did.

Even at the park food and merch is kind of there, but not a must have or kids begging for items.

It rarely even feels like THE REASON people go to Animal Kingdom anymore. As happy as they are to ride Flight of Passage, its already lost the anchor feeling that Star Wars and Potter have.

The budget is going to go up, and the diminished returns will continue until it is just another tent pole, not the magnificent that they want. I think the stench of 2 honestly lingers with a lot of people.

 

[Phroobar]

And even if you don't look for Halloween costumes.

Toys. Kids toys for this did not sell the way Marvel, Star Wars or even Ghostbusters did.

Even at the park food and merch is kind of there, but not a must have or kids begging for items.

It rarely even feels like THE REASON people go to Animal Kingdom anymore. As happy as they are to ride Flight of Passage, its already lost the anchor feeling that Star Wars and Potter have.

The budget is going to go up, and the diminished returns will continue until it is just another tent pole, not the magnificent that they want. I think the stench of 2 honestly lingers with a lot of people.

Correct. Merchandising isn't a gauge anymore.

 

[TP2000]

At a Target in Del Mar, California this weekend I couldn't find a single Little Mermaid doll or anything in the toy department.

Barbie had an entire aisle to herself, very picked over with lots of empty shelf space in Barbie Land. The ninja turtles had a big end cap display, as to be expected the week their movie came out.

But Little Mermaid was nowhere to be found in a big Target in an upper-middle class SoCal suburb this weekend. Take that scientific evidence and input it into the Univac and see what that gets you.

 

[Phroobar]

At a Target in Del Mar, California this weekend I couldn't find a single Little Mermaid doll or anything in the toy department.

Barbie had an entire aisle to herself, very picked over with lots of empty shelf space in Barbie Land. The ninja turtles had a big end cap display, as to be expected the week their movie came out.

But Little Mermaid was nowhere to be found in a big Target in an upper-middle class SoCal suburb this weekend. Take that scientific evidence and input it into the Univac and see what that gets you.

You have to look in the clearance aisle. Besides there wasn't much TLM to begin with. They are still trying to get rid of Wakanda and Encanto stuff.

 

[doctornick]

And even if you don't look for Halloween costumes.

Toys. Kids toys for this did not sell the way Marvel, Star Wars or even Ghostbusters did.

Even at the park food and merch is kind of there, but not a must have or kids begging for items.

It rarely even feels like THE REASON people go to Animal Kingdom anymore. As happy as they are to ride Flight of Passage, its already lost the anchor feeling that Star Wars and Potter have.

The budget is going to go up, and the diminished returns will continue until it is just another tent pole, not the magnificent that they want. I think the stench of 2 honestly lingers with a lot of people.

Are you talking about Avatar? I’m just confused about it, especially when you say the “stench off 2” as though there was something wrong or disappointing about Way of Water.

And your whole post seems to ignore the point being made- Avatar doesn’t sell merch. That doesn’t mean being people don’t like it, it’s that the appreciation of the films is expressed by people actually going to watch the movies in theaters. Probably because the movies skew much older than most while still having 4 quadrant appeal.

 

[doctornick]

Back to a normal release schedule. Long theatrical window before streaming release.

I expect a pretty big boost for this film (socially) once it releases for streaming.

I don’t really think those that as a “normal release schedule”. It didn’t come out until late May. I think ideally after at least a 90 day theatrical, then they do digital/blu ray for a while and hold off on D+ until 6 months are the premier.

 

[celluloid]

And your whole post seems to ignore the point being made- Avatar doesn’t sell merch. That doesn’t me’t like it, it’s that the appreciation of the films is expressed by people actually going to watch the movies in theaters. Probably because the movies skew man being donuch older than most while still having 4 quadrant appeal.

Never said people don't like it. I don't think anyone really loves it enough to have the zeitgiest culturally, which is what was mentioned and I was respondong to. And that is ok. But I agree, and it is evident that it is not the same as the others that have had entire theme park lands dedicated to them that do sell merch.

Can you name another theme park land with multiple attractions that has a large of a land without the Zeitgiest level of merch as the others mentioned based on a single property? Not a collage of properties that fit in an umberella land, but like one dedicated property land?

It was in reference to its connection to theme parks. So what I said was accurate. It does not sell the toys or move the needle much on food and beverage or merch in the park. It does not even raise attendance needle much.

I never said the film(s) on their own were not popular or financially successful.

 

[doctornick]

Never said people don't like it. I don't think anyone really loves it enough to have the zeitgeist culturally, which is what was mentioned and I was respondong to. And that is ok. But I agree, and it is evident that it is not the same as the others that have had entire theme park lands dedicated to them that do sell merch.

Can you name another theme park land with multiple attractions that has a large of a land without the Zeitgiest level of merch as the others mentioned based on a single property? Not a collage of properties that fit in an umberella land, but like one dedicated property land?

It was in reference to its connection to theme parks. So what I said was accurate. It does not sell the toys or move the needle much on food and beverage or merch in the park. It does not even raise attendance needle much.

I never said the film(s) on their own were not popular or financially successful.

I have no idea how to measure it, but between the attendance of DAK going up significantly after it opened as well as just anecdotally talking to people who pretty much universally love the land I'm not sure I agree on it "not moving the needle". I would guess the only way to be sure would be to have Disney's internal surveying of guests.

But my other point is that I think Avatar does have some level of "cultural zeitgiest" that is just very unique and distinct from how most IPs are perceived. Part of it is that it skews older and so the online discourse and merchandise sales are not as prominent. So online people might talk about how "no one cares" which is why you had early articles predicting the sequel to underperform and yet tons of people actually were very excited and interested in going to see the sequel and it did very well.

Honestly, I don't know how to properly capture the feeling of the IP, but it definitely seems like something a ton of people very much like and enjoy just not on the intense "have to get buy anything related to this" level. But to say it does not have a fandom is completely underselling it in my opinion. I guess the best way I can describe it is that Avatar seems like a very "experiential" IP where people want to be "part of the world" which is why it works well as a theme part land as opposed to just having trinkets with branding from the movies.

 

[celluloid]

But my other point is that I think Avatar does have some level of "cultural zeitgiest" that is just very unique and distinct from how most IPs are perceived. Part of it is that it skews older and so the online discourse and merchandise sales are not as prominent. So online people might talk about how "no one cares" which is why you had early articles predicting the sequel to underperform and yet tons of people actually were very excited and interested in going to see the sequel and it did very well.

That is fair. No one ever said it had none. But its not the same level to business as the ones who sell healthy merchandise, and food and beverage in the parks. In terms of business to theme parks though(and I know we got off topic in this thread)
If it does not make money outside of the initial needle boost and make money off the food and beverage or merch. Then it is not seen as a profitable ROI.

No other land has ever been built without that part of the zeitgeist was my point. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Disney Irish]

I have no idea how to measure it, but between the attendance of DAK going up significantly after it opened as well as just anecdotally talking to people who pretty much universally love the land I'm not sure I agree on it "not moving the needle". I would guess the only way to be sure would be to have Disney's internal surveying of guests.

But my other point is that I think Avatar does have some level of "cultural zeitgiest" that is just very unique and distinct from how most IPs are perceived. Part of it is that it skews older and so the online discourse and merchandise sales are not as prominent. So online people might talk about how "no one cares" which is why you had early articles predicting the sequel to underperform and yet tons of people actually were very excited and interested in going to see the sequel and it did very well.

Honestly, I don't know how to properly capture the feeling of the IP, but it definitely seems like something a ton of people very much like and enjoy just not on the intense "have to get buy anything related to this" level. But to say it does not have a fandom is completely underselling it in my opinion. I guess the best way I can describe it is that Avatar seems like a very "experiential" IP where people want to be "part of the world" which is why it works well as a theme part land as opposed to just having trinkets with branding from the movies.

This is exactly right, its the world of Pandora that is the draw not some character which will sell lots of merch. Its why some "Halloween costume" metric or merch tests don't work with Avatar, because you can't dress up as the floating mountains for Halloween, though I guess one could try lol.

But it most certainly "moves the needle", otherwise they wouldn't be trying to add a Avatar experience into Anaheim, whatever it might be.

 

[Jedijax719]

Crazy thing is that TLM's overseas percentage was HIGHER than Across the Spiderverse's overseas percentage.

 

[erasure fan1]

This is exactly right, its the world of Pandora that is the draw not some character which will sell lots of merch.

The true draw to Pandora is a great ride. If Pandora was Navi river and a Banshee spinner, it's considered a failure by everyone and there isn't any draw to the park. If you changed mission space to a star wars ride, it's still a walk on 80% of the time. They were extremely smart with Avatar. They focused on the one thing that everyone agreed was great in the film. And that's the environment and visuals. So couple that with a great ride, and you have success.

 

[Disney Irish]

The true draw to Pandora is a great ride. If Pandora was Navi river and a Banshee spinner, it's considered a failure by everyone and there isn't any draw to the park. If you changed mission space to a star wars ride, it's still a walk on 80% of the time. They were extremely smart with Avatar. They focused on the one thing that everyone agreed was great in the film. And that's the environment and visuals. So couple that with a great ride, and you have success.

I'm talking specifically about the Avatar IP, not just the Pandora land in AK.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The true draw to Pandora is a great ride. If Pandora was Navi river and a Banshee spinner, it's considered a failure by everyone and there isn't any draw to the park. If you changed mission space to a star wars ride, it's still a walk on 80% of the time. They were extremely smart with Avatar. They focused on the one thing that everyone agreed was great in the film. And that's the environment and visuals. So couple that with a great ride, and you have success.

Why do folks hate mission space?

 

[erasure fan1]

Why do folks hate mission space?

I don't like it because it makes me want to puke on the orange. And green is just a sub par motion simulator. And the new green mission is even worse. I was there to ride it when it soft opened. Since they added the green moe, I've never had to wait more than 10 to 15min so I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I don't like it because it makes me want to puke on the orange. And green is just a sub par motion simulator. And the new green mission is even worse. I was there to ride it when it soft opened. Since they added the green moe, I've never had to wait more than 10 to 15min so I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

Sorry it makes you sick. I prefer the orange and it was good thinking they made the green and that they are two different missions, they actually made two different rides in one foot print. Actually one of the smarter things they have ever done.

 

[erasure fan1]

Sorry it makes you sick. I prefer the orange and it was good thinking they made the green and that they are two different missions, they actually made two different rides in one foot print. Actually one of the smarter things they have ever done.

I agree making the green mission was extremely smart. Otherwise myself and none of my family would have ever gone on again. Lol It was a novel idea that just never really worked out in my opinion.

 

[TP2000]

Crazy thing is that TLM's overseas percentage was HIGHER than Across the Spiderverse's overseas percentage.

Mermaid lost $105 Million at the box office. Spider-Man made $149 Million.

Mermaid: Production $250, Marketing $140, Box Office Take $285 = $105 Million Loss
Spider-Man: Production $100, Marketing $100, Box Office Take $349 = $149 Million Profit

 

[Disstevefan1]

I agree making the green mission was extremely smart. Otherwise myself and none of my family would have ever gone on again. Lol It was a novel idea that just never really worked out in my opinion.

While its not Horizons, its a great non-IP attraction in my opinion. I love all the details in the pavilion, I will never be as close to a lunar rover as I am there! Its one of the rare times the concept renderings actually matched the final product. The pavilion is really great looking from the outside. I realize team orange is not for everyone, but team green provides an experience for everyone. I often ride both but always ride orange. When running at full capacity it does handle a lot of people.

I would trade it for Horizons 2.0 if I could trust them to do it right.

 

[DCBaker]

Are they re-releasing the movie as a sing-a-long in the theaters? I wonder if Disney will force a way for it to hit $300 million domestic because $297-$298 million is certainly an odd look.

Looks like it.