DisneylandForward

[coffeefan]

It’s more the matter of you have 10B of new capital spend over say 20 years. There is this mental math one commits to that if it’s mostly directed towards a new gate, it somehow won’t impair investment at the other two.

I'm sure some redistribution is expected, but not a stop like the Paris example. The increase in revenue may even spur more investment back into the resort.

When in fact a new gate requires significant wastage on non guest facing facilities and infrastructure to pull off. It would actually go further if it’s not directed towards a satellite and provide a more consistent product stream that is not centered around a single bolus whenever it opens.

DL and DCA share backstage operations. I don't see how this would be different with a third gate. Even if there is no direct backstage connection, TDA could transport resources to the third park, which is only 2 miles away.

Some of this criticism extends from as much as I actually enjoy epic, the other two parks are in a very weird place. DCA still ultimately needs significant work and I’d hate to see that sidelined for the new side piece.

After the expansions, DCA will just need work on Hollywood and Pixar Pier. But, I think having three parks gives them more flexibility to close lands, like say TL, to have work done, as seen at WDW.

 

[BrianLo]

I very much echo this. What does the Disneyland Hotel offer other than history, if even that? I can hardly even see the resemblance. There is no aesthetic merit and this land is vastly underused.
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Disneyland, USA is the model of all other Disney Parks and a symbol of American greatness, its hotel should be the same. Why does Paris have the greatest of the Disneyland Hotels? This is what Disneyland, USA deserves, and more. In such a perfect climate as California, there ought to be grand gardens and fountains that can be enjoyed by hotel and park guests alike. The Grand Californian is an excellent hotel, and I see no reason the Disneyland Hotel should not be equally magnificent. Let the local motels serve as the reasonably rated residencies, but make Disneyland's accomodations fit for princesses.
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Sorry folks, I am the candycane inn of the west parcel. We’re locked in for 47 years.

It’s certainly no DLP. But I wouldn’t say it’s underutilized. It’s actually quite densely utilized; because it is grandfathered towers. I find the complex exceedingly more pleasant than the contemporary.

 

[DLR92]

I very much echo this. What does the Disneyland Hotel offer other than history, if even that? I can hardly even see the resemblance. There is no aesthetic merit and this land is vastly underused.
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Disneyland, USA is the model of all other Disney Parks and a symbol of American greatness, its hotel should be the same. Why does Paris have the greatest of the Disneyland Hotels? This is what Disneyland, USA deserves, and more. In such a perfect climate as California, there ought to be grand gardens and fountains that can be enjoyed by hotel and park guests alike. The Grand Californian is an excellent hotel, and I see no reason the Disneyland Hotel should not be equally magnificent. Let the local motels serve as the reasonably rated residencies, but make Disneyland's accomodations fit for princesses.
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Even with the last concept art showing major configurations changes around the resort. We could have had Disneyland Hotel Paris in Anaheim.

 

[Disney Irish]

Even with the last concept art showing major configurations changes around the resort. We could have had Disneyland Hotel Paris in Anaheim.

I honestly would not be opposed to a hotel being placed as the actual gates into DL. I was thinking the same thing yesterday when this whole discussion started.

 

[Distorian]

Sorry folks, I am the candycane inn of the west parcel. We’re locked in for 47 years.

It’s certainly no DLP. But I wouldn’t say it’s underutilized. It’s actually quite densely utilized; because it is grandfathered towers. I find the complex exceedingly more pleasant than the contemporary.

The grounds of the Disneyland Hotel are roughly 16 acres. The grounds of the Grand Californian are roughly 12 acres. Despite this, the Grand Californian boasts roughly 50 more rooms as well as being mixed use with retail space on the ground floor. It is a far better use of space as it benefits both the hotel and park guests as well as locals, whereas the Disneyland Hotel almost exclusively benefits hotel guests with the exception of Trader Sam's.

The Disneyland Hotel is a disconnected complex that, if torn down, could serve as additional shopping and dining as well as a luxury hotel equal to the Grand Californian.

I honestly would not be opposed to a hotel being placed as the actual gates into DL. I was thinking the same thing yesterday when this whole discussion started.

It would definitely be interesting. In a hypothetical world in which Disney purchased Gardenwalk and used that space as the entrance to a third gate on the TSL, a hotel serving as the park's berm along Disney Way, between the parking structure and the park would ideal. Although, that said, hotel guests would then be looking out at a parking structure, which is probably not what the average guest wants.

 

[DrStarlander]

Sorry folks, I am the candycane inn of the west parcel. We’re locked in for 47 years.

It’s certainly no DLP. But I wouldn’t say it’s underutilized. It’s actually quite densely utilized; because it is grandfathered towers. I find the complex exceedingly more pleasant than the contemporary.

 

[BrianLo]

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We joke, but if I’m Carl and Disneyland/DCA want to encroach me from either side, that is the literal dream.

The Sheraton used to be my go to once upon a time and I had dreams (15 years ago) of how good it would be to view the construction of what ultimately is now Avengers.

Likewise the DVC tower is a dream for Disneyland forward construction views. Either end of the hallway has great views. One day my standard view duo studio is going to be the hotspot of in park viewing paradise. Mark my words!!

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

I know I just skimmed through several pages and I'll say this: To not use Simba for DCA expansion would be a missed opportunity on so many levels. Because that new fence looks pretty substantial, why not but the entry point to the hypothetical Simba bridge where Boardwalk Pizza is? Sorry to sound obvious if I am.

 

[TP2000]

Random Nightcap Musing:

Has anyone done a list/rundown of the rides, existing land expansions, and new lands we know or presume to be coming to the Disneyland Resort based on the existing Disneyland Forward information? And more importantly, how does that compare to the natural expansion of Disneyland (and DCA since about 2004) in the past?

In the 1960's thru the 1990's, they added and expanded the park quite a bit and quite regularly. DCA had the same experience for the past 20 years, even outpacing Disneyland's historical track record sometimes, like in 2010-2012.

Does Disneyland Forward actually accelerate the natural timetable of adding major new rides and lands to the two parks? Or does it just identify that eventually that expansion will move westward across Disneyland Drive to continue that natural pace of expansion in the 2040's and 2050's?

 

[BrianLo]

Does Disneyland Forward actually accelerate the natural timetable of adding major new rides and lands to the two parks? Or does it just identify that eventually that expansion will move westward across Disneyland Drive to continue that natural pace of expansion in the 2040's and 2050's?

No, Disneyland Forward merely represents a master agreement pitch than an actual plan.

It’s hard to say if either resort domestically is accelerated right now. Because we very much had an adequate bolus of projects in the back 2010’s. A lot of this just feels like Pandemic era catchup to the traditional pace they hit.

Acceleration is sort of about whether they sustain the pace or if there is more overlapping the current major milestones. Which there could be. For example, is there a Disneyland project for end of decade? Is the next major project after Avatar a Fantasy Springs style addition in some of the Disneyland forward plot coming by 2031/32 at the latest? Only if those things are also true would I personally call the pace accelerated over the prior 10 years.


As a whole though, I am starting to feel Disney Experiences is spending more than usual, but that acceleration acknowledges cruise ships and the whole global buildout. No resort feels entirely ignored right now, which usually was not true post early 90s. Either WDW was constantly bumbling, or domestic projects were being paused for Shanghai, or Paris existed in a constant state of sheer neglect, etc.

Maybe the only gates that feel a bit ignored right now are Disneyland, Disneyland Paris (when hasn’t that been true) and Epcot.

 

[coffeefan]

We've been talking about Disney buying Garden Walk and the apartments/houses around TSL to make a 3rd gate more viable in TSL, so yeah it is.

They don't need to buy any additional land to make the Westcot WS idea work. But it would be nice if they did for many reasons. So it's really not the same.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

No, Disneyland Forward merely represents a master agreement pitch than an actual plan.

It’s hard to say if either resort domestically is accelerated right now. Because we very much had an adequate bolus of projects in the back 2010’s. A lot of this just feels like Pandemic era catchup to the traditional pace they hit.

Acceleration is sort of about whether they sustain the pace or if there is more overlapping the current major milestones. Which there could be. For example, is there a Disneyland project for end of decade? Is the next major project after Avatar a Fantasy Springs style addition in some of the Disneyland forward plot coming by 2031/32 at the latest? Only if those things are also true would I personally call the pace accelerated over the prior 10 years.


As a whole though, I am starting to feel Disney Experiences is spending more than usual, but that acceleration acknowledges cruise ships and the whole global buildout. No resort feels entirely ignored right now, which usually was not true post early 90s. Either WDW was constantly bumbling, or domestic projects were being paused for Shanghai, or Paris existed in a constant state of sheer neglect, etc.

Maybe the only gates that feel a bit ignored right now are Disneyland, Disneyland Paris (when hasn’t that been true) and Epcot.

My guess is the mid 2030's will be DL parks time to shine for the 80th in 2035

 

[Disney Irish]

They don't need to buy any additional land to make the Westcot WS idea work. But it would be nice if they did for many reasons. So it's really not the same.

Just like they could build a Westcot or WS (albeit a bit smaller) style land as an expansion in the Simba or DLH lots as well. So yes it doesn’t really need more land purchases just like it doesn’t need to go into TSL, other than you guys wanting a 3rd gate.

 

[mlayton144]

The "A for effort" is kind of hilarious because you're critiquing Tony Baxter, not me. Welcome to Westcot, a different genre of theme parks, dense and urbanized. Not conceived by me, but thank you.
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Duh then, but is what you posted the same drawing as Tony Baxter design above?

 

[mickEblu]

Angel stadium as the transportation hub and a major hotel complex. The OC Vibe may flop by then, so DisneyIrish can get the Disney mall he wants too.
And we get Westcot at TSL.

I too hope that Disney Irish gets his mall. Mars Needs Moms and My Man’s Wants Malls. What can I say? I wonder what stores he’d like to see there? @Disney Irish you already have Lululemon at DTD. What else do you need?

 

[Disney Irish]

I too hope that Disney Irish gets his mall. Mars Needs Moms and My Man’s Wants Malls. What can I say? I wonder what stores he’d like to see there? @Disney Irish you already have Lululemom at DTD. What else do you need?

Lol, I don't NEED a mall, as I've said about 100x now, this is about a mixed use hotel/retail district. Think with 2-3 large hotels with a few retail shops and dining. Like DLH was back in the day before all the DVC towers when it had all the retail shops. And if you want to add a few extra themed experiences as part of it, sure.

I just don't need a whole 3rd gate as I've explained. I don't like the idea of guests being forced to pay for a 3rd Park for something that we could get as part of the other two Parks. I mean if you want to pay Disney more money to visit more than two Parks go to WDW. Here in Anaheim, lets stick with two Parks and expand them out as much as possible without having the further expense of a 3rd gate.

 

[mickEblu]

I very much echo this. What does the Disneyland Hotel offer other than history, if even that? I can hardly even see the resemblance. There is no aesthetic merit and this land is vastly underused.
View attachment 910171View attachment 910172

Disneyland, USA is the model of all other Disney Parks and a symbol of American greatness, its hotel should be the same. Why does Paris have the greatest of the Disneyland Hotels? This is what Disneyland, USA deserves, and more. In such a perfect climate as California, there ought to be grand gardens and fountains that can be enjoyed by hotel and park guests alike. The Grand Californian is an excellent hotel, and I see no reason the Disneyland Hotel should not be equally magnificent. Let the local motels serve as the reasonably rated residencies, but make Disneyland's accomodations fit for princesses.
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Wow that does look nice. Yeah I guess for me it would be the history and the nostalgia even if it’s changed a lot over the years. I think that would be a perfect looking hotel to go with a Fantasy Springs esque expansion. Wonder what Disney would charge for something like that in Anaheim? $1,300 a night minimum on an off season weekday?

 

[mickEblu]

Lol, I don't NEED a mall, as I've said about 100x now, this is about a mixed use hotel/retail district. Think with 2-3 large hotels with a few retail shops and dining. Like DLH was back in the day before all the DVC towers when it had all the retail shops. And if you want to add a few extra themed experiences as part of it, sure.

I just don't need a whole 3rd gate as I've explained. I don't like the idea of guests being forced to pay for a 3rd Park for something that we could get as part of the other two Parks. I mean if you want to pay Disney more money to visit more than two Parks go to WDW. Here in Anaheim, lets stick with two Parks and expand them out as much as possible without having the further expense of a 3rd gate.

I mean I know you’re SAYING that. But we just sense that you really want another Disney mall. And that’s fine.

Haha jk I know what you’re saying. I just can’t understand why they’d need 2-3 more hotels if there’s is no 3rd gate. A couple new attractions every 5 or so years won’t necessitate that. The buzz from the new additions will fade by the time the next one comes. Especially if they are just being added to two existing parks. A 3rd gate moves the needle overnight and forces a guest to stay on property for more days. You add everything to DL and technically one can skip Toontown and Galaxies Edge for example to go ride the new Frozen and Moana rides without adding any vacation time.

 

[Distorian]

Lol, I don't NEED a mall, as I've said about 100x now, this is about a mixed use hotel/retail district. Think with 2-3 large hotels with a few retail shops and dining. Like DLH was back in the day before all the DVC towers when it had all the retail shops. And if you want to add a few extra themed experiences as part of it, sure.

I just don't need a whole 3rd gate as I've explained. I don't like the idea of guests being forced to pay for a 3rd Park for something that we could get as part of the other two Parks. I mean if you want to pay Disney more money to visit more than two Parks go to WDW. Here in Anaheim, lets stick with two Parks and expand them out as much as possible without having the further expense of a 3rd gate.

I suppose a point worth mentioning here is a philosophic difference of theme parks that's gone unaddressed. In my mind, Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar, or many of these other acquired properties have little to no place at all in either Disneyland or DCA. I would much prefer these attractions dumped into a third gate to preserve the thematic integrity of the original two parks. I recognize this is not a concern for you so tacking on Avatar land to DCA is no different than putting it into a third gate, but for my money I find it unappealing and just another hit against a park I once loved.

 

[mickEblu]

I suppose a point worth mentioning here is a philosophic difference of theme parks that's gone unaddressed. In my mind, Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar, or many of these other acquired properties have little to no place at all in either Disneyland or DCA. I would much prefer these attractions dumped into a third gate to preserve the thematic integrity of the original two parks. I recognize this is not a concern for you so tacking on Avatar land to DCA is no different than putting it into a third gate, but for my money I find it unappealing and just another hit against a park I once loved.

Ideally things would have gone this way. My knee jerk reaction is to say that line has already been crossed but GE is so tucked away that it doesn’t even feel like you’re at Disneyland. Avengers are in the middle of the park but it’s DCA so you can look the other way. I think considering where we are now and what options are on the table I’d like a West Coast World Showcase as you’d get the most bang for your buck showcasing Disney IP that has no representation at DLR and it would be a beautiful place to walk around. Obviously this wouldn’t be possible at a park showcasing Marvel, Star Wars and Avatar. Although if we had all the land in the world a West Coast Epcot with Star Wars, Marvel, and Avatar comprising our “Future World” to go along with a world showcase would be awesome.

Go build THAT at Angel Stadium. A Future Proof Epcot. The real Ipcot