• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

DisneylandForward

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
A 3rd gate moves the needle overnight and forces a guest to stay on property for more days. You add everything to DL and technically one can skip Toontown and Galaxies Edge for example to go ride the new Frozen and Moana rides without adding any vacation time.
Yes, a third gate is a "ratchet" offering irreversible consolidation of new gate clicks, whereas adding attractions to the existing park is "pliers." In the latter, it can slip this way or that way -- it's a comparatively squishy incentive. Many guests will think they can "do" Disneyland in one day regardless of what they add, such as by simply not going on attractions they've been on a thousand times.
 

Distorian

Active Member
Ideally things would have gone this way. My knee jerk reaction is to say that line has already been crossed but GE is so tucked away that it doesn’t even feel like you’re at Disneyland. Avengers are in the middle of the park but it’s DCA so you can look the other way. I think considering where we are now and what options are on the table I’d like a West Coast World Showcase as you’d get the most bang for your buck showcasing Disney IP that has no representation at DLR and it would be a beautiful place to walk around. Obviously this wouldn’t be possible at a park showcasing Marvel, Star Wars and Avatar. Although if we had all the land in the world a West Coast Epcot with Star Wars, Marvel, and Avatar comprising our “Future World” to go along with a world showcase would be awesome.

Go build THAT at Angel Stadium.
I would agree. Although I want a third gate to dump undesirable IPs, given that we're past that point and DCA has sadly been given that role, I want a third gate to be what DCA ought to be - that is to say, a good park. Although I do not love Westcot, I would much prefer it to nearly any other idea WDI could possibly come up with today.
 

coffeefan

Well-Known Member
Just like they could build a Westcot or WS (albeit a bit smaller) style land as an expansion in the Simba or DLH lots as well. So yes it doesn’t really need more land purchases just like it doesn’t need to go into TSL, other than you guys wanting a 3rd gate.

It would be very small. I did a quick measurement on maps, and Simba DCA side has about 25 acres of land. That's without allocating any of that land to backstage operations. It's also without carving any land for a likely premium hotel similar to Fantasy Springs. So what's left after? The DL side looks to be even smaller.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I would agree. Although I want a third gate to dump undesirable IPs, given that we're past that point and DCA has sadly been given that role, I want a third gate to be what DCA ought to be - that is to say, a good park. Although I do not love Westcot, I would much prefer it to nearly any other idea WDI could possibly come up with today.

Yeah much preferred to Disneys Epic Universe.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I mean I know you’re SAYING that. But we just sense that you really want another Disney mall. And that’s fine.
Then you're not listening, because I've said now MANY times that its not about just adding another mall. And maybe partially my fault by calling it like Disney Springs. But its a Hotel district.

Haha jk I know what you’re saying. I just can’t understand why they’d need 2-3 more hotels if there’s is no 3rd gate. A couple new attractions every 5 or so years won’t necessitate that. The buzz from the new additions will fade by the time the next one comes. Especially if they are just being added to two existing parks. A 3rd gate moves the needle overnight and forces a guest to stay on property for more days.
Why did Disney want to build a 5 diamond hotel in 2017? I mean there wasn't a new gate, so why would they need it? Obviously they felt there would be enough demand for it that the expense was warranted. And I don't get any sense that has changed, because they didn't ask Anaheim to lower the amount of rooms available to them when they asked for the zoning changes, which they could have. You'd think if they only thought they were going to add one more DVC tower and be done they would have asked to lower the amount of future available rooms. Not to mention that when Disney was giving their proposal for DLForward the City specifically asked them about future hotels, if they were coming and if they would be mostly DVC or if they would be for tourists. Disney had to assure the City Council that more hotels were coming as part of this and it wouldn't all be DVC rooms. So they have plans to add more hotels and Anaheim wants them.

The buzz from the new additions will fade by the time the next one comes.
And isn't that the ideal for any theme park? That once the buzz has faded from the latest attraction that you offer something new to gain the buzz back and giving guests reasons to keep coming back over and over, it always experience the latest thing. I mean that is what I was always taught when I worked in the industry in the early 90s, I doubt it has changed in 2026 otherwise why are Parks around the world from every operator adding new things every year.

A 3rd gate moves the needle overnight and forces a guest to stay on property for more days.
And then when the buzz fades from that, then what? You have nothing more to add. You've just ended any further expansion. Its one big addition and its done. Because you aren't going to build out a 3rd gate and not have it complete or mostly complete. And with TSL its not like you would be able to build half a Park so you can expand in the future, it'll already be half a Park due to its size, so its a full Park when it opens with no future expansion capability.

You add everything to DL and technically I can skip Toontown and GE to go ride your new Frozen and Moana rides without adding any vacation time.
Except you know people won't skip those things. The issue is I think most of you are thinking like a local here who can just come back anytime they want, not like a tourist who is spending multiple days. If there is more to do in the Parks they will spend extra days in the same Park doing all the extra things, because they are on vacation anyways. We have guests now that spend two days at DL and one day at DCA and there isn't even much added, and then they spend two days elsewhere while on a 5 day vacation. I could see a future where its 3 days in DL and 2 days in DCA with the expansions, and they spend all 5 days in DLR.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I suppose a point worth mentioning here is a philosophic difference of theme parks that's gone unaddressed. In my mind, Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar, or many of these other acquired properties have little to no place at all in either Disneyland or DCA. I would much prefer these attractions dumped into a third gate to preserve the thematic integrity of the original two parks. I recognize this is not a concern for you so tacking on Avatar land to DCA is no different than putting it into a third gate, but for my money I find it unappealing and just another hit against a park I once loved.
Except that day has passed, as much as we like the idea of tearing down those lands and moving them into their own Parks that day is never coming.

So we have to look at the reality of now with modern Disney, and not what we "wished" would happen if we were in-charge.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
It would be very small. I did a quick measurement on maps, and Simba DCA side has about 25 acres of land. That's without allocating any of that land to backstage operations. It's also without carving any land for a likely premium hotel similar to Fantasy Springs. So what's left after? The DL side looks to be even smaller.
Yes it would be smaller, as I said, but it is doable. So you can still get your WestCot, or whatever, in an expansion without the need for a 3rd gate.
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
If they did build a hotel at Toy Story Parking Lot and there wasn't a third gate there, they could market it as a moderate resort (a bit like Saratoga Springs at Disney Springs). That's one of the major issues with Disneyland's hotels is that they are very expensive compared to nearby hotels and there aren't as many perks for staying at a Disney Hotel at the moment
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I would agree. Although I want a third gate to dump undesirable IPs, given that we're past that point and DCA has sadly been given that role, I want a third gate to be what DCA ought to be - that is to say, a good park. Although I do not love Westcot, I would much prefer it to nearly any other idea WDI could possibly come up with today.
And this I think is the only real reason why anyone here wants a 3rd gate. I can't imagine anyone here actually wants to give Disney more money. No, it all about "Stop touching my beloved Disneyland, shove that junk in another Park so I don't have to see it and can ignore it and never spend money on it".
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If they did build a hotel at Toy Story Parking Lot and there wasn't a third gate there, they could market it as a moderate resort (a bit like Saratoga Springs at Disney Springs). That's one of the major issues with Disneyland's hotels is that they are very expensive compared to nearby hotels and there aren't as many perks for staying at a Disney Hotel at the moment

They could but they won’t. Moderate for Disney in California by the time it opens would be $800 a night.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
If they did build a hotel at Toy Story Parking Lot and there wasn't a third gate there, they could market it as a moderate resort (a bit like Saratoga Springs at Disney Springs). That's one of the major issues with Disneyland's hotels is that they are very expensive compared to nearby hotels and there aren't as many perks for staying at a Disney Hotel at the moment
Exactly, they can added 2-3 new hotels, one 5 diamond, one moderate, and maybe even one economy.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
And this I think is the only real reason why anyone here wants a 3rd gate. I can't imagine anyone here actually wants to give Disney more money. No, it all about "Stop touching my beloved Disneyland, shove that junk in another Park so I don't have to see it and can ignore it and never spend money on it".

For sure. The ONLY reason.
 

coffeefan

Well-Known Member
Yes it would be smaller, as I said, but it is doable. So you can still get your WestCot, or whatever, in an expansion without the need for a 3rd gate.

So 25 acres - 10 acres (hotel) - 30% (backstage operations), so 10.5 acres left for park space on the DCA side.
And no more room for expansion in TSL since that's all for hotels too in your plan.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom