DisneylandForward

[Disney Irish]

So 25 acres - 10 acres (hotel) - 30% (backstage operations), so 10.5 acres left for park space on the DCA side.
And no more room for expansion in TSL since that's all for hotels too in your plan.

You wouldn't need that much backstage area in an expansion because it can reuse all the facilities from DL/DCA, so think 10% for backstage.

 

[mickEblu]

History with you tells me otherwise.

And comments like this -



But I'm willing to give you the doubt of the doubt.

That would be a great park. Would does it have to do with NOT having those properties at DLR proper? The idea I’ve been pitching for the TSL didn’t even have any Star Wars, Marvel or Avatar in it. So that should clear things up for you.

 

[coffeefan]

You wouldn't need that much backstage area in an expansion because it can reuse all the facilities from DCA, so think 10% for backstage.

I feel the same about Westcot not needing 30% for backstage, but you said 30% was always needed for backstage, so I wanted to be consistent.

 

[Disney Irish]

I feel the same about Westcot not needing 30% for backstage, but you said 30% was always needed for backstage, so I wanted to be consistent.

The 1/3 was because its separated from the rest of the Resort and cannot reuse the existing backstage services, ie its an island unto itself that has to be self sufficient.

 

[Disney Irish]

That would be a great park. Would does it have to do with NOT having those properties at DLR proper? The idea I’ve been pitching for the TSL didn’t even have any Star Wars, Marvel or Avatar in it. So that should clear things up for you.

And the idea you've pitched is a World Showcase that uses different IPs, I assume all "Disney proper" IPs based on what you said. And why can't that go into an expansion? Why does it need to be a separate gate?

Really nothing about your idea screams 3rd gate, just that you want it to be a 3rd gate for some reason. I'm not opposed to your idea, I just don't think it needs to be its own 3rd gate.

 

[mickEblu]

And the idea you've pitched is a World Showcase that uses different IPs, I assume all "Disney proper" IPs based on what you said. And why can't that go into an expansion? Why does it need to be a separate gate?

Really nothing about your idea screams 3rd gate, just that you want it to be a 3rd gate for some reason. I'm not opposed to your idea, I just don't think it needs to be its own 3rd gate.

Why are you changing the subject? At least acknowledge you were wrong and you don’t need to give me “the benefit of the doubt” as the proof is in the puddin. There was no Avatar, Star Wars or Marvel in my proposed third gate for the Toy Story Lot. Cmon let me hear it. I’m waiting

 

[coffeefan]

The 1/3 was because its separated from the rest of the Resort and cannot reuse the existing backstage services, ie its an island unto itself that has to be self sufficient.

It's less than 2 miles away. Resources can be transported before, during, and after park hours. If Disneyland can transport horses from 30 miles away, 1-2 miles is not going to stop them.

But I'll give it to you so we can move on. Okay, so DCA Simba is then left with 13.5 acres for park space (DL side would be smaller). That's about the size of Galaxy's Edge. Is that enough to justify all the hotel expansion you're calling for and skip on a third gate?

 

[Disney Irish]

Why are you changing the subject? At least acknowledge you were wrong and you don’t need to give me “the benefit of the doubt” as the proof is in the puddin. There was no Avatar, Star Wars or Marvel in my proposed third gate for the Toy Story Lot. Cmon let me hear it. I’m waiting

Please show me where I said you were including Avatar, Star Wars or Marvel in your proposed World Showcase.

 

[mickEblu]

Please show me where I said you were including Avatar, Star Wars or Marvel in your proposed World Showcase.

You said the only reason people (including myself) want a third gate was to get Avatar, Star Wars and Marvel out of DL and DCA.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's less than 2 miles away. Resources can be transported before, during, and after park hours. If Disneyland can transport horses from 30 miles away, 1-2 miles is not going to stop them.

Why build backstage in DCA when its 500 ft from Disneyland? Why build a parade storage in DCA when Disneyland has perfectly good one that can be used everyday? Why building maintenance facilities in DCA when Disneyland has maintenance facilities 1000ft away?

Parks have needs throughout the day that cannot just be carted over from even 2 miles away. A Park separated from the rest of the Resort has to be self sufficient. Certain things can be reused like costuming, and such, but not everything.

But I'll give it to you so we can move on. Okay, so DCA Simba is then left with 13.5 acres for park space (DL side would be smaller). That's about the size of Galaxy's Edge. Is that enough to justify all the hotel expansion you're calling for and skip on a third gate?

Yes, because I don't think a 3rd gate is needed for that concept. Will it be smaller in that expansion slot, yes. But does it warrant a whole 3rd gate, no.

 

[Disney Irish]

You said the only reason people (including myself) want a third gate was to get Avatar, Star Wars and Marvel out of DL and DCA.

Again please show me what I specifically said those 3 IPs? You can't because I didn't say that, I never mentioned a specific IP.

 

[mickEblu]

Again please show me what I specifically said those 3 IPs? You can't because I didn't say that, I never mentioned a specific IP.

lol so then what are you saying. My proposed third gate is to keep those pesky IPs like Mary Poppins and Beauty and the Beast out of DL? lol stop

 

[DLR92]

I haven’t been a fan of the idea using the surface parking lots on the west side for theme park expansion. Disneyland would benefit a third park. Or can Disney build another Disneyland in California.

 

[Disney Irish]

lol so then what are you saying. My proposed third gate is to keep those pesky IPs like Mary Poppins and Beauty and the Beast out of DL? lol stop

Have you not said you wished they would stop adding IPs into Disneyland, ie "stop messing with Disneyland"?

Yes your idea you've had Disney IPs, I even acknowledged that here -

And the idea you've pitched is a World Showcase that uses different IPs, I assume all "Disney proper" IPs based on what you said.

So not sure what you're even trying to prove at this point.

 

[mickEblu]

Have you not said you wished they would stop adding IPs into Disneyland, ie "stop messing with Disneyland"?

Not IP in general. IP’s that don’t work at DL. I think you’re getting your wires crossed. Typically I don’t want them to touch DL in general as it’s a high risk game but I would not be opposed to most of the IP I listed for World Showcase going into DL provided there was a proper spot for them. I think you may be conflating me not wanting classic attractions at DL removed for not wanting new IP at DL. I’d have no problem in theory with Poppins, BatB or Frozen being part of an FL expansion in the motorboat cruise, FL theatre area or part of Autopia.

 

[Disney Irish]

Not IP in general. IP’s that don’t work at DL. I think you’re getting your wires crossed. Typically I don’t want them to touch DL in general as it’s a high risk game but I would not be opposed to most of the IP I listed for World Showcase going into DL provided there was a proper spot for them. I think you may be conflating me not wanting classic attractions at DL removed for not wanting new IP at DL. I’d have no problem in theory with Poppins, BatB or Frozen being part of an FL expansion in the motorboat cruise, FL theatre area or part of Autopia.

Its possible I am conflating what you've said in the past about you not wanting them to touch Disneyland.

But again I don't see why your idea cannot go into one of the expansion plots? Overall if the idea is to make any 3rd gate (even if I'm opposed to the idea of a 3rd gate in general) is to use it as a dumping ground for non-Disney IP (which seems to be the overall sentiment, even if you didn't imply it) and even add a hotel as part of it, then why not do that. And then use the expansion slots for your ideas for more traditional Disney IPs.

Basically its the best of all our ideas, and you may have even alluded to something similar in this discussion so I'll even give you the credit.

TSL - 3rd gate with hotel/retail and 2-3 lands
DL Expansion - 2-3 lands with hotel
DCA Expansion - World Showcase

 

[coffeefan]

Why build backstage in DCA when its 500 ft from Disneyland? Why build a parade storage in DCA when Disneyland has perfectly good one that can be used everyday? Why building maintenance facilities in DCA when Disneyland has maintenance facilities 1000ft away?

I said the third park would not need 30% allocated to backstage operations, not that it didn't need any dedicated backstage support.
DCA also has significantly fewer backstage operations than DL.

Parks have needs throughout the day that cannot just be carted over from even 2 miles away. A Park separated from the rest of the Resort has to be self sufficient. Certain things can be reused like costuming, and such, but not everything.

If they share costuming, then it shows that it doesn't need to be completely self-sufficient. So that supports my point. Furthermore, the WDW parks are much further apart and share other backstage operations.

Yes, because I don't think a 3rd gate is needed for that concept. Will it be smaller in that expansion slot, yes. But does it warrant a whole 3rd gate, no.

But, what you're calling for is two smaller Galaxy's Edge lands with 2 premium hotels, and a hotel island with 3+ hotels. The parks are already pretty packed. Can you not see the ramifications of what just adding two small lands and 5+ hotels will have on DLR? Park expansion and hotel expansion need to be proportional, or we risk DLR inheriting the worst qualities of WDW.

 

[Disney Irish]

I haven’t been a fan of the idea using the surface parking lots on the west side for theme park expansion. Disneyland would benefit a third park. Or can Disney build another Disneyland in California.

The idea of Disney building another Park anywhere in the US at this point is even more far fetched than Disney giving WDW a 5th Gate and DLR a 3rd gate.

 

[mickEblu]

Its possible I am conflating what you've said in the past about you not wanting them to touch Disneyland.

But again I don't see why your idea cannot go into one of the expansion plots? Overall if the idea is to make any 3rd gate (even if I'm opposed to the idea of a 3rd gate in general) is to use it as a dumping ground for non-Disney IP (which seems to be the overall sentiment, even if you didn't imply it) and even add a hotel as part of it, then why not do that. And then use the expansion slots for your ideas for more traditional Disney IPs.

Basically its the best of all our ideas, and you may have even alluded to something similar in this discussion so I'll even give you the credit.

TSL - 3rd gate with hotel/retail and 2-3 lands
DL Expansion - 2-3 lands with hotel
DCA Expansion - World Showcase

How are you going to get away with a traditional style park with only 2-3 lands? I think a world showcase is a much better concept. Specifically for the land available at Toy Story. The idea is to bolster the lack of attractions with essentially a highly detailed outdoor mall that is an attraction in and of itself with food and beverage offerings from all over the world.

Is there enough room for a mini world showcase on the Simba lot? How many acres it?

 

[Disney Irish]

I said the third park would not need 30% allocated to backstage operations, not that it didn't need any dedicated backstage support.
DCA also has significantly fewer backstage operations than DL.

If you remove the TDA building and its facilities from the equation I think you'll find that DCA has proportionally the same amount of allocated backstage as DL.

If they share costuming, then it shows that it doesn't need to be completely self-sufficient. So that supports my point. Furthermore, the WDW parks are much further apart and share other backstage operations.

Costuming is one thing. But Entertainment would need its own space, so would Operations, so would OVD, so would Security, so would all the other things needed to run a Park daily. You cannot cart a lot of that stuff from 2 miles away. Unless of course you're wanting it to be a bare bones Park that isn't going to have much in it.

But, what you're calling for is two smaller Galaxy's Edge lands with 2 premium hotels, and a hotel island with 3+ hotels. The parks are already pretty packed. Can you not see the ramifications of what just adding two small lands and 5+ hotels will have on DLR? Park expansion and hotel expansion need to be proportional, or we risk DLR inheriting the worst qualities of WDW.

I don't think I'm calling for that at all. I also still don't think DLR needs a 3rd gate, just like I don't think WDW needs a 5th. And as much as I like the overall concepts being discussed you won't convince me that it cannot go into an expansion slot and requires a 3rd gate. A 3rd gate is just a no-go in my opinion, and I've already given my reasons why.