DisneylandForward

[CHOX]

Agreed. But let's not pretend you can just "expand the Disneyland Monorail" to the new park and call it done.

You have to kill off and remove the existing Disneyland Monorail, and then rebuild an all-new system with all-new stations and beamways and routes to get 50,000+ people per day to/from wherever you want them to go.

Just "expanding" or "extending" the toy train set from 1959 is not going to be an option for Disneyland Forward of the 2030's, as cool as the little 1959 futuristic train ride is and as much as we all love it...

It looks like it catches fire there for a second when the light reflects against the chrome. I had to scroll back up because I thought someone edited this into a joke .gif.

 

[Phroobar]

I'm not sure that's the "beautification" direction the resort district wants to go.

(PS: That looks like a dual rail design as well.)

It would be even better if it spun around the track like the train robbery scene in Solo.

 

[smooch]

It looks like it catches fire there for a second when the light reflects against the chrome. I had to scroll back up because I thought someone edited this into a joke .gif.

I did the exact same thing lmao I'm glad it wasn't just me who thought that.

 

[Disney Irish]

It would be even better if it spun around the track like the train robbery scene in Solo.

Now that would be a great new addition to the new expansion parks.

 

[truecoat]

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More like...

 

[TP2000]

TP, you know you're a real buzzkill a lot of times.

Yes. Because sometimes real facts and hard data are a buzzkill.

The vintage 1959 Disneyland Monorail system can not be expanded to serve tens of thousands of extra people per day.

From what we know about Disneyland Forward, there may be a desire to link up to five Disney locations via a high capacity transit system. That would be the Deluxe version, with an added stop at the Anaheim Convention Center along the route to satisfy the Anaheim politicians and taxpayers. The Economy version would link four locations and could get away with a much smaller amount of track and cost.

Most importantly, this would be an all-new system built for the 21st century. Big guideway, big rolling stock, very high capacity trains, fully ADA compliant, highly automated, built by a dedicated manufacturer like Bombardier or Alstom, etc.

Here's the Deluxe Version of a system that links the entire Disneyland Forward Resort area together;

'
Stations: 1. Esplanade, 2. DL Expansion North/Hotels 3. DCA Expansion South 4. Anaheim Convention Center 5. Toy Story Lot Expansion 6. Eastern Gateway Transit Center/Train Maintenance Facility

And here's the Economy Version of a transit system that links the bare minimum of stations.

Stations: 1. Downtown Disney Westside/Hotels 2. Esplanade 3. Eastern Gateway Transit Center/Train Maintenance Facility 4. Toy Story Expansion

As a reminder, and just for Friday Fun , here's the two station system that's been in place since 1961.

Friday Fun Confession: I swear, I have no idea why Google Earth thinks I need to know where the closest cocktail lounges are when I ask it for a satellite image of Disneyland.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes. Because sometimes real facts and hard data are a buzzkill.

The current Disneyland Monorail system can not be expanded to serve tens of thousands of extra people per day. The small beam gauge and the tiny rolling stock required to make it under the existing beamway clearances, all locked in place in 1959, are unable to support that type of expansion.

TP, I think we all understand at this point that the 1959 version itself is not going to be expanded. It'll require a new Monorail system to be built if they decide to do it. Whether they do or not is not known.

It was never really the point about reusing the existing system, but rather that Disney is proposing the use of a Monorail system in the future.

From what we know about Disneyland Forward, there may be a desire to link up to five Disney locations via a high capacity transit system. That would be the Deluxe version, with an added stop at the Anaheim Convention Center along the route to satisfy the Anaheim politicians and taxpayers. The Economy version would link four locations and could get away with a much smaller amount of track and cost.

Most importantly, this would be an all-new system built for the 21st century. Big guideway, big rolling stock, very high capacity trains, fully ADA compliant, highly automated, etc.

Here's the Deluxe Version of a system that links the entire Disneyland Forward Resort area together;

View attachment 745723 '
Stations: 1. Esplanade, 2. DL Expansion North/Hotels 3. DCA Expansion South 4. Anaheim Convention Center 5. Toy Story Lot Expansion 6. Eastern Gateway Transit Center/Train Maintenance Facility

And here's the Economy Version of a transit system that links the bare minimum of stations.

View attachment 745726
Stations: 1. Downtown Disney Westside/Hotels 2. Esplanade 3. Eastern Gateway Transit Center/Train Maintenance Facility 4. Toy Story Expansion

As a reminder, and just for Friday Fun , here's the two station system that's been in place since 1961.

View attachment 745727

Friday Fun Confession: I swear, I have no idea why Google Earth thinks I need to know where the closest cocktail lounges are when I ask it for a satellite image of Disneyland.

I think you provide a good starting point on where Disney would go with this if they decide to move forward with the Monorail as a viable transportation system around the resort.

 

[TP2000]

Compliments of the Monorail Society (those folks know their monorails) here's an interesting comparison of the size of beam used for various monorail systems around the world, showing that the Disneyland system is the smallest and most toy-like and thus is not suitable for mass transit systems needing to move tens of thousands of people per day.

And because the Disneyland system is a non-standard gauge that is very small, no modern manufacturer in the 21st century produces rolling stock to fit it. It likely would be illegal to do so, as I can't imagine how the small scale cabins of the Disneyland monorails could meet ADA laws and modern safety regulations for mass transit.

Thank goodness for Grandfather Clauses!

The 20 inch beam used at Disneyland is not the only prohibition to simply "expanding" the existing system. There is the issue of rolling stock and its cabin sizes that are dictated by the low overheads of the existing spaghetti bowl of track inside the park, as well as the relatively tight turns taken just south of the existing Downtown Disney stations and north of the station in a S curve around the Indy building.

From a scaling study done by Bob Gurr as he helped design the PeopleMover system comes this clearance schematic. It shows that the Disneyland monorail has a cabin height of only seven feet from floor to outer roof. Which is why the interior is so cramped and taller folks have to duck to get through the doors.

And finally, just because this makes me laugh, here's the Kids of The Kingdom in mandatory matching sweater sets giving us a handy visual of just how small the Disneyland Monorail system is compared to humans. Thanks, Kids!

 

[Disney Irish]

Compliments of the Monorail Society (those folks know their monorails) here's an interesting comparison of the size of beam used for various monorail systems around the world, showing that the Disneyland system is the smallest and most toy-like and thus is not suitable for mass transit systems needing to move tens of thousands of people per day.

And because the Disneyland system is a non-standard gauge that is very small, no modern manufacturer in the 21st century produces rolling stock to fit it. It likely would be illegal to do so, as I can't imagine how the small scale cabins of the Disneyland monorails could meet ADA laws and modern safety regulations for mass transit.

Thank goodness for Grandfather Clauses!


View attachment 745742
View attachment 745744

The 20 inch beam used at Disneyland is not the only prohibition to simply "expanding" the existing system. There is the issue of rolling stock and its cabin sizes that are dictated by the low overheads of the existing spaghetti bowl of track inside the park, as well as the relatively tight turns taken just south of the existing Downtown Disney stations and north of the station in a S curve around the Indy building.

From a scaling study done by Bob Gurr as he helped design the PeopleMover system comes this clearance schematic. It shows that the Disneyland monorail has a cabin height of only seven feet from floor to outer roof. Which is why the interior is so cramped and taller folks have to duck to get through the doors.

View attachment 745748

And finally, just because this makes me laugh, here's the Kids of The Kingdom in mandatory matching sweater sets giving us a handy visual of just how small the Disneyland Monorail system is compared to humans. Thanks, Kids!

If the current Monorail wasn't safe to run, even by modern standards, it wouldn't be in operation today. This includes for ADA standards which they have ramps that allow access to/from the trains as needed.

Since none of us here are really Monorail experts, or at the very least a structural engineer (though maybe one is lurking), we cannot say for sure if the existing beam can handle larger train stock or not. All we can say for sure is that the existing Monorail train stock is non-standard and would require customization in order to build new stock whether larger or not.

But lets say for a second the existing beams can handle larger trains, and Disney did decide they wanted to extend it. I would think they would still want to replace the beams with a standard size just so they can order more standard train stock.

Just an FYI, Bombardier the manufacturer of the Mark VI WDW Monorails was taken over by Alstom. I'm sure Disney could work with them as needed to build any new train stock for DL, whether for the existing beam or new beam. I vaguely remember Bombardier being contacted in the past when DL Monorail trains needed refurb (2008?), I know a lot was done in-house, but I could be wrong but think they were at least contacted.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Posters: WHY NOT MODERN DISNEY MAKE GOOD RIDE. WHY DISNEY BOTH CHEAP AND EXPENSIVE. WHY SERVICE BAD. WHY DISNEY SO UNIMAGINATIVE. I CANNOT POST WITHOUT USING DRAMATIZED BOLD FOR EMPHASIS. Monocle emoji Continue for many paragraphs, etc. etc.

*Exact Same Posters*: No, they absolutely cannot adjust, modify, or otherwise change the 1959 monorail in any way for any reason even though it has already changed several times over the years in most every meaningful way, and they absolutely cannot build a modern transportation system in any capacity, and here's a very long explanation based only upon my own philosophizing...

 

[Phroobar]

Posters: WHY NOT MODERN DISNEY MAKE GOOD RIDE. WHY DISNEY BOTH CHEAP AND EXPENSIVE. WHY SERVICE BAD. WHY DISNEY SO UNIMAGINATIVE. I CANNOT POST WITHOUT USING DRAMATIZED BOLD FOR EMPHASIS. Monocle emoji Continue for many paragraphs, etc. etc.

*Exact Same Posters*: No, they absolutely cannot adjust, modify, or otherwise change the 1959 monorail in any way for any reason even though it has already changed several times over the years in most every meaningful way, and they absolutely cannot build a modern transportation system in any capacity, and here's a very long explanation based only upon my own philosophizing...

It could be worse. I remember a guy that would never use periods. He only used multiple commas and would capitalize random misspelled words. Drive me nuts.

 

[PiratesMansion]

It could be worse. I remember a guy that would never use periods. He only used multiple commas and would capitalize random misspelled words. Drive me nuts.

I struggle with seeing so many people post on the internet without proper capitalization. Not that I'm probably 100% perfect on that either, but c'mon, the least everyone can do is capitalize the first word of their sentences and 'I', right?

 

[ParkPeeker]

I remember a guy that would never use periods.

Not to derail the thread, but I've sent one sentence posts here without periods. I think it's because I'm on mobile half the time, so I post on here like I text, and most people text without periods. Periods make text messages look mad imo, so sometimes it feels weird to post a one liner with a period lol.

 

[Robbiem]

If the Monorail system is upgraded and the park tracks are altered or removed it should be easier to redevelop the submarine/ autopia area

 

[TP2000]

Posters: WHY NOT MODERN DISNEY MAKE GOOD RIDE. WHY DISNEY BOTH CHEAP AND EXPENSIVE. WHY SERVICE BAD. WHY DISNEY SO UNIMAGINATIVE. I CANNOT POST WITHOUT USING DRAMATIZED BOLD FOR EMPHASIS. Monocle emoji Continue for many paragraphs, etc. etc.

There's apparently an "ignore" feature here. If you find my posts so distasteful you might consider activating it.

*Exact Same Posters*: No, they absolutely cannot adjust, modify, or otherwise change the 1959 monorail in any way for any reason even though it has already changed several times over the years in most every meaningful way, and they absolutely cannot build a modern transportation system in any capacity, and here's a very long explanation based only upon my own philosophizing...

It seems you didn't read my posts in full. Should I have used the bold function more?

My point is that they can not simply "expand" (a word here used multiple times by several folks) the existing Disneyland Monorail using the current beam size and it's inherent limitations on rolling stock and train scale (cabin height/width).

The Disneyland Monorail is a theme park toy, a ride that carries less than 1,000 people per hour. To actually move tens of thousands of people around the Resort District to four or five different transit centers serving different parks and future hotel complexes, you would have to tear down the existing Disneyland Monorail and replace it entirely with all new beams and all new rolling stock that would be MUCH larger and would require abandoning almost all of the existing beamway built in 1959 and 1961.

So, no, the Disneyland Monorail can not simply be "expanded" to serve Disneyland Forward or any new destinations.

 

[PiratesMansion]

There's apparently an "ignore" feature here. If you find my posts so distasteful you might consider activating it.



It seems you didn't read my posts in full. Should I have used the bold function more?

My point is that they can not simply "expand" (a word here used multiple times by several folks) the existing Disneyland Monorail using the current beam size and it's inherent limitations on rolling stock and train scale (cabin height/width).

The Disneyland Monorail is a theme park toy, a ride that carries less than 1,000 people per hour. To actually move tens of thousands of people around the Resort District to four or five different transit centers serving different parks and future hotel complexes, you would have to tear down the existing Disneyland Monorail and replace it entirely with all new beams and all new rolling stock that would be MUCH larger and would require abandoning almost all of the existing beamway built in 1959 and 1961.

So, no, the Disneyland Monorail can not simply be "expanded" to serve Disneyland Forward or any new destinations.

To be fair, I said posters. Though you must admit you have a certain style of posting.

 

[Disney Irish]

There's apparently an "ignore" feature here. If you find my posts so distasteful you might consider activating it.



It seems you didn't read my posts in full. Should I have used the bold function more?

My point is that they can not simply "expand" (a word here used multiple times by several folks) the existing Disneyland Monorail using the current beam size and it's inherent limitations on rolling stock and train scale (cabin height/width).

The Disneyland Monorail is a theme park toy, a ride that carries less than 1,000 people per hour. To actually move tens of thousands of people around the Resort District to four or five different transit centers serving different parks and future hotel complexes, you would have to tear down the existing Disneyland Monorail and replace it entirely with all new beams and all new rolling stock that would be MUCH larger and would require abandoning almost all of the existing beamway built in 1959 and 1961.

So, no, the Disneyland Monorail can not simply be "expanded" to serve Disneyland Forward or any new destinations.

Don't get stuck on the word "expand" or even "extend" here. As explained "expand" just means the route itself beyond its current usage, it does not necessarily meaning reusing the same existing beam or same train stock.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I struggle with seeing so many people post on the internet without proper capitalization. Not that I'm probably 100% perfect on that either, but c'mon, the least everyone can do is capitalize the first word of their sentences and 'I', right?

What's worse is capitalizing almost all nouns like we're speaking German or editing the Declaration of Independence.

But that seems to be in decline with the advent of dictating posts thru a Smart Phone.

 

[TP2000]

Don't get stuck on the word "expand" or even "extend" here. As explained "expand" just means the route itself beyond its current usage, it does not necessarily meaning reusing the same existing beam or same train stock.

But even then, if you keep a Tomorrowland station, with all new beamway and rolling stock you have to abandon the existing loopedy-loop beamway inside the park, plus the alignment that sends both inward and outward beams very close to each other getting to/from that Tomorrowland station.

The whole thing would need to be replaced entirely. Would there perhaps be a new 35 inch wide beam in a place near where the 20 inch beam was built in 1961? Sure. But it would merely be a new system built in an alignment on/near the old system.

The entire Disneyland Monorail system would need to be replaced. You might be able to retain a Tomorrowland station by 2030 when the land is called Discoveryland by having a route like this, which we will dub the Premium Economy plan (extra legroom, slightly wider seat, one free cocktail and wine with dinner, one checked bag included)...

Stations: 1. Downtown Disney/Hotels/Park Expansions 2. Tomorrowland 3. Eastern Gateway Transit Center/Maintenance Facility 4. Toy Story Lot Expansion

 

[Disney Irish]

But even then, if you keep a Tomorrowland station, with all new beamway and rolling stock you have to abandon the existing loopedy-loop beamway inside the park, plus the alignment that sends both inward and outward beams very close to each other getting to/from that Tomorrowland station.

The whole thing would need to be replaced entirely. Would there perhaps be a new 35 inch wide beam in a place near where the 20 inch beam was built in 1961? Sure. But it would merely be a new system built in an alignment on/near the old system.

The entire Disneyland Monorail system would need to be replaced. You might be able to retain a Tomorrowland station by 2030 when the land is called Discoveryland by having a route like this, which we will dub the Premium Economy plan (extra legroom, slightly wider seat, one free cocktail and wine with dinner, one checked bag included)...

View attachment 745854
Stations: 1. Downtown Disney/Hotels/Park Expansions 2. Tomorrowland 3. Eastern Gateway Transit Center/Maintenance Facility 4. Toy Story Lot Expansion

Yes of course any expansion of the Monorail usage would very likely require a realignment and reconfiguration of the track route. Heck even the original Eastern Gateway project had a realignment of the Monorail track due to the bridge. Which is likely to still happen anyways as the bridge will be at least one part of this proposal that is almost all but guaranteed to move forward.