DisneylandForward

[Disney Irish]

What's the hourly capacity of the Disneyland Monorail system? Particularly as it currently stands, with its very narrow and entirely unique beamway that requires a very narrow and low-slung train consist?

I can't imagine it's more than 1,000 per hour, and it's likely closer to 700 to 800 riders per hour in its current setup.

To get it into thousands per hour, a la' Tokyo Disneyland with its much larger Hitachi standard beamway, you'd need to rip it all out and start from scratch, abondoning the old 1959 Spaghetti Bowl of track inside the park itself. Even the full-size 1962 Alweg system built for the Seattle World's Fair that is still in operation is much larger and much higher capacity than Disneyland's small and one-off 1959 boutique system.

It's fun to say "Just extend the monorail to the new mall/park/center on the Toy Story lot!", but then when you realize the existing 1959 mini-gauge monorail system could only carry 1,000 people or less per hour over there.... try again.

Ah... as I suspected, according to Wikipedia the seating capacity (no standing room) of the Disneyland Monorail is 120 people per train. And that's packing them in like sardines with every seat in use. Move over, lady.

120 People Per Train, A train leaving every 5 minutes = Theoretical Capacity of 1,320 Passengers Per Hour

Or roughly half the hourly capacity of Pirates of the Caribbean. But with some seats going empty, or two seats being occupied by one large 21st century American, plus usual delays due to humanity, the realistic hourly capacity is closer to 1,000 per hour without a hiccup. That's not going to work to get 50,000 people to/from a park that needs to handle upwards of 75,000 people per day on its busiest days.

Next idea, gang?

Disneyland Monorail - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes the current Mark VII does have lower capacity. But if Disney was to be serious about using a Monorail for transporting guests back and forth to other areas of the resort new train stock can be made with higher capacity.

There have been rumors for years of WDW upgrading their versions of the Mark VI, which have a current capacity of 360 per train. So its possible Disney does also upgrade the DLR system as well, maybe even redoing the beams to be a more standard size to handle larger trains, anything is possible.

Obviously this is all unknown right now and it may never happen, and this thread is all in the "what if" territory right now. But its clear that Disney is at least putting it into the EIR so they can get the needed approvals to have the ability to do it in the future if they so choose. But with the committed $60B over the next 10 years for Parks division it wouldn't be too hard to carve off a bit for a complete DLR Monorail system upgrade, so always a possibility.

 

[shambolicdefending]

Sure they could. There are a lot of state run parks in China. They love theme parks. Granted, it will fall apart in a few years. China could care less about US mega corps except the money they make them.

Yeah, that's sort of the point. Without Disney the parks would fall apart and it would cost China major cash and political capital.

 

[shambolicdefending]

It's fun to say "Just extend the monorail to the new mall/park/center on the Toy Story lot!", but then when you realize the existing 1959 mini-gauge monorail system could only carry 1,000 people or less per hour over there.... try again

If they're even close to serious about spending $6b a year over the next decade, a totally rebuilt monorail in Anaheim is more than feasible.

 

[Phroobar]

Yeah, that's sort of the point. Without Disney the parks would fall apart and it would cost China major cash and political capital.

When you in a country that isn't going to let you leave, you don't have many choices for theme park entertainment.

 

[Haymarket]

When you in a country that isn't going to let you leave, you don't have many choices for theme park entertainment.

Hundreds of millions of Chinese go overseas for travel every year. They invariably return home, often disappointed by their experiences in places like Paris, London, NYC.

 

[PiratesMansion]

When you in a country that isn't going to let you leave, you don't have many choices for theme park entertainment.

Except that Chinese tourists are EVERYWHERE now and have been for going on a decade.

Maybe not everyone gets to leave China (much in the same way that not everyone who wants to gets to leave the US and go elsewhere), but there are PLENTY who can vacation out of China right now.

 

[shambolicdefending]

When you in a country that isn't going to let you leave, you don't have many choices for theme park entertainment.

This is China we're talking about. Not North Korea.

 

[mlayton144]

Headed to SDL and HKDL next month!

Same. I hope they get the option on the second plot back in Hong Kong. If it happens, that's a huge tell.

SDL is a hit—a second gate in the next decade is all but certain. I'm curious what kind of park it'll be. Hope it's not another studio park. Third hotel's on the way.

Geopolitically and economically, what are you seeing that predicts a strong future for the Chinese consumer? I see none

 

[josh2000]

Headed to SDL and HKDL next month!

Please be very careful! I would avoid China and Hong Kong at all costs.

From the US Travel Advisories:

"Reconsider travel to Mainland China due to the arbitrary enforcement of local laws, including in relation to exit bans, and the risk of wrongful detentions.

Exercise increased caution when traveling to the Hong Kong SAR due to the arbitrary enforcement of local laws."

 

[Consumer]

Please be very careful! I would avoid China and Hong Kong at all costs.

From the US Travel Advisories:

"Reconsider travel to Mainland China due to the arbitrary enforcement of local laws, including in relation to exit bans, and the risk of wrongful detentions.

Exercise increased caution when traveling to the Hong Kong SAR due to the arbitrary enforcement of local laws."

There's some great things at both of those parks, but yeah I can't imagine visiting China for either of them. If I'm visiting China it's to see The Forbidden City, the Great Wall, the Terra Cotta Army, and Mount Everest, and even those magnificent monuments of history and nature are too weak to tempt me to step foot in that dictatorship.

 

[TP2000]

Geopolitically and economically, what are you seeing that predicts a strong future for the Chinese consumer? I see none

No kidding. Demographic collapse, economic collapse, and likely soon because of all that... political collapse.

Going to Shanghai in 2023 has similar vibes as going to East Berlin in 1988. Tick, tick, tick, tick...

 

[NobodyElse]

It's fun to say "Just extend the monorail to the new mall/park/center on the Toy Story lot!", but then when you realize the existing 1959 mini-gauge monorail system could only carry 1,000 people or less per hour over there.... try again.

Yes the current Mark VII does have lower capacity. But if Disney was to be serious about using a Monorail for transporting guests back and forth to other areas of the resort new train stock can be made with higher capacity.

There have been rumors for years of WDW upgrading their versions of the Mark VI, which have a current capacity of 360 per train. So its possible Disney does also upgrade the DLR system as well, maybe even redoing the beams to be a more standard size to handle larger trains, anything is possible.

So, in order to extend the monorail and add reasonable capacity, all they would need to do is:

• Switch out the trains for large capacity models
• Switch out the beams, to properly fit the new larger trains
• Possibly replace the pylons, to support the larger beams and trains
• Remodel / rebuild the existing stations / platforms to accommodate the new trains
• Get all the proper rights of way for the new sections
• Etc.

As you say, "anything is possible", but some things are less likely than others.

EDIT: (I'm not trying to be overly-snide, just realistic.)

 

[TP2000]

So, in order to extend the monorail and add reasonable capacity, all they would need to do is:

• Switch out the trains for large capacity models
• Switch out the beams, to properly fit the new larger trains
• Possibly replace the pylons, to support the larger beams and trains
• Remodel / rebuild the existing stations / platforms to accommodate the new trains
• Get all the proper rights of way for the new sections
• Etc.

As you say, "anything is possible", but some things are less likely than others.

EDIT: (I'm not trying to be overly-snide, just realistic.)

Exactly. Any attempt to build a "monorail" to whatever new park that Disneyland Forward entails would be a massive project.

You can't use the current Disneyland monorail as a real transportation system because it is basically a toy train set only carrying less than a thousand people per hour currently, and it can not be scaled up to real-world conditions without a complete rebuild.

I love the Disneyland Monorail, don't get me wrong. But it's a 1950's amusement park ride, not a real mass transit system. Even the hokey temporary monorails they build for World's Fairs are more serious and higher capacity than the Disneyland Monorail.

I would rather keep the existing Disneyland Monorail system and just build a couple of bridges over Disneyland Drive to any future park expansion to the west of the two existing parks.

Just typing that above has convinced me the Disneyland Monorail is a ride, not a transit system. The next time I do my Park Vs. Park ride count tally thing, the Disneyland Monorail is definitely getting counted as a ride, dammit.

 

[Disney Irish]

So, in order to extend the monorail and add reasonable capacity, all they would need to do is:

• Switch out the trains for large capacity models
• Switch out the beams, to properly fit the new larger trains
• Possibly replace the pylons, to support the larger beams and trains
• Remodel / rebuild the existing stations / platforms to accommodate the new trains
• Get all the proper rights of way for the new sections
• Etc.

As you say, "anything is possible", but some things are less likely than others.

EDIT: (I'm not trying to be overly-snide, just realistic.)

Exactly. Any attempt to build a "monorail" to whatever new park that Disneyland Forward entails would be a massive project.

You can't use the current Disneyland monorail as a real transportation system because it is basically a toy train set only carrying less than a thousand people per hour currently, and it can not be scaled up to real-world conditions without a complete rebuild.

I love the Disneyland Monorail, don't get me wrong. But it's a 1950's amusement park ride, not a real mass transit system. Even the hokey temporary monorails they build for World's Fairs are more serious and higher capacity than the Disneyland Monorail.

I would rather keep the existing Disneyland Monorail system and just build a couple of bridges over Disneyland Drive to any future park expansion to the west of the two existing parks.

Just typing that above has convinced me the Disneyland Monorail is a ride, not a transit system. The next time I do my Park Vs. Park ride count tally thing, the Disneyland Monorail is definitely getting counted as a ride, dammit.

Obviously a lot of what is talked about here in this thread is "what if" territory. So again as has been acknowledged quite a few times now a lot if not most of what is discussed may never happen.

The only thing we know for a fact is that Disney has added the possibility of using new transportation systems into the EIR. This is so they can get the approvals head of time in case they decide to do it. Whether they actually do it or not remains to be seen. But that should not preclude any of us from talking about the possibility of such.

So yes its less than likely they actually do build out a new monorail, but its fun to talk about nonetheless.

 

[TP2000]

So yes its less than likely they actually do build out a new monorail, but its fun to talk about nonetheless.

Agreed. But let's not pretend you can just "expand the Disneyland Monorail" to the new park and call it done.

You have to kill off and remove the existing Disneyland Monorail, and then rebuild an all-new system with all-new stations and beamways and routes to get 50,000+ people per day to/from wherever you want them to go.

Just "expanding" or "extending" the toy train set from 1959 is not going to be an option for Disneyland Forward of the 2030's, as cool as the little 1959 futuristic train ride is and as much as we all love it...

 

[Disney Irish]

Agreed. But let's not pretend you can just "expand the Disneyland Monorail" to the new park and call it done.

You have to kill off and remove the existing Disneyland Monorail, and then rebuild an all-new system with all-new stations and beamways and routes to get 50,000+ people per day to/from wherever you want them to go.

Just "expanding" or "extending" the toy train set from 1959 is not going to be an option for Disneyland Forward of the 2030's, as cool as the little 1959 futuristic train ride is and as much as we all love it...

TP, you know you're a real buzzkill a lot of times.

Except for a few, I don't think many really cares if the existing Monorail or beam is replaced or not as long as there is a Monorail. So when talking about "expanding" we're talking about expanding the route it doesn't need to be the same exact beam or trains as used to today.

Also the EIR talks about the potential use of the Monorail for going to the new proposed shopping area replacing the Toy Story lot, not necessarily going to the new park expansion areas.

And basically this whole thread its accepted that about 99.9% of everything discussed is never going to happen, but yet its continued to be discussed. So lets just mark this under the same so it can continue to be discussed.

 

[Phroobar]

There is no reason why a modern monorail train and beam couldn't be installed. Just change out the beam for a different gage and new trains. A lot of airports have them now. It's not that big of an expense.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There is no reason why a modern monorail train and beam couldn't be installed. Just change out the beam for a different gage and new trains. A lot of airports have them now. It's not that big of an expense.

That’s not a monorail…

 

[Phroobar]

That’s not a monorail…

It could be.
How is this?

 

[NobodyElse]

It could be.
How is this?

I'm not sure that's the "beautification" direction the resort district wants to go.

(PS: That looks like a dual rail design as well.)