flynnibus
Premium Member
Even then it wasn’t really equitable- the phased closings treated different classes of visitors different.
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Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR
- Thread starter AJFireman
- Start date
For those arguing the "No Blockout Days" I cannot find that statement easily on any Disneyland advertising on their social media or website. I found one statement that said "Dream Key gives you 365 day access" but then puts emphasis more about the reservations system and how many you get and you are not guaranteed access. Is the No Blockout Day just something APs where accustomed to hearing from non official sources currently and using that phrase in the current program.
Their is a reason for the name change and sun setting of the old system but the passholders still are holding onto old ways. Also if they bought their Magic Key pass after the first few days they would already have known that reservations were limited because the first few weekends after release filled for Magic Key holders but not for individual tickets. I mean I dont think there was a time when all reservation calendars matched between tickets and Magic Key Holders. There is a statement telling you to refer to the reservation calendar before you make a purchase. I know we talk about it alot here since the reservations system started seeing there is a separate calendar for Single Park tickets vs Parkhoppers then when the Magic Keys where announced Disney said each Magic Key would have its own Reservation and Blockout Calendar. Why wouldnt Disneyland just have one reservation calendar if all where equal for access.
If you went straight to just buy a ticket it doesn't explain there is different Calendar for Single park vs Parkhoppers. Should those be added to the lawsuit. Its only on a different page of the website explaining the purchase process that people dont need to read because they have bought tickets in the past. It says there if you scroll down "Different types of admission may have different reservation date availability". Also, Can I now sue now when they deny me a reservation at a restaurant but are still taking walkups or the opposite?? Mobile Order says no availibility until hours later but people are getting their orders walking up to the window? Why shouldnt my order just be put in line in the order it was receieved. All same facilities but different ways to access them but they cut them off.
Their is a reason for the name change and sun setting of the old system but the passholders still are holding onto old ways. Also if they bought their Magic Key pass after the first few days they would already have known that reservations were limited because the first few weekends after release filled for Magic Key holders but not for individual tickets. I mean I dont think there was a time when all reservation calendars matched between tickets and Magic Key Holders. There is a statement telling you to refer to the reservation calendar before you make a purchase. I know we talk about it alot here since the reservations system started seeing there is a separate calendar for Single Park tickets vs Parkhoppers then when the Magic Keys where announced Disney said each Magic Key would have its own Reservation and Blockout Calendar. Why wouldnt Disneyland just have one reservation calendar if all where equal for access.
If you went straight to just buy a ticket it doesn't explain there is different Calendar for Single park vs Parkhoppers. Should those be added to the lawsuit. Its only on a different page of the website explaining the purchase process that people dont need to read because they have bought tickets in the past. It says there if you scroll down "Different types of admission may have different reservation date availability". Also, Can I now sue now when they deny me a reservation at a restaurant but are still taking walkups or the opposite?? Mobile Order says no availibility until hours later but people are getting their orders walking up to the window? Why shouldnt my order just be put in line in the order it was receieved. All same facilities but different ways to access them but they cut them off.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Not as equitable but much more rare and better than top tier key holders are experiencing today.
As I said, they need to drop the “no blackout“ wording.
While technically true, it’s not true in the practical sense.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Hypothetical question I asked last time but you avoided answering: you think if an airline sold miles with a perk of being able to use them for certain flights, and then never made any seats available for purchases with miles, that would be A-OK? What if they only made one seat available?
There has to be a certain level of accessibility available for the Magic Key holders in order for the program to meet the expectations the consumers have when purchasing.
el_super
Well-Known Member
That's true, but Disney also did a fairly poor job here differentiating the new passes (I would suspect purposefully). There were post after post here when the new passes were announced, directly comparing them to the old passes, and directly equating the tiers and the old block-out dates. They wanted to convince the old AP'ers that the new passes were very similar in nature to convince them to come back into the fold.
Even if you sort of understood what the reservation system was, there was no real information presented on how difficult it would be to obtain a reservation. That's the biggest failing here. Disney used to post a full 12 months of block-out dates on the AP fliers, so that people would be informed, up front, when the passes would be valid prior to paying for it. That's not the case here with the Magic Keys. You pay for the key and then take a gamble that any one specific day would be available.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
No, if there is such a thing as an “enemy” here it would be Disney by continuing to use the term “no blackouts“ when for many years before park pass reservations it meant one thing and after park pass reservations the same term “no blackouts“ means something entirely different.
When Disney instantly halted the DLR annual passes then created the new keys along with park pass reservation, that was the perfect moment to stop using the “no blackout“ wording, but they didn’t. They continued to use the wording as if nothing had changed..
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
No I get that, but what I meant was, the reason certain key-holes couldn't get a reservation was because too many other similar key-holes had already booked that day.
I cannot find anywhere Disney Official used the term "No Blackouts" or "No Blockouts" for Dream Key Holders. When they where first announced through the Disney Parks Blog it stated this "Reservation-based admission to one or both theme parks every day of the year". Thats why I question who is really holding onto that term.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
There are literal black out calendars for the different key passes.
I understand a lot of folks are on Disney’s side and this is simply a case of buyer beware.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Yes, there is a finite number of park pass reservations for a given key pass even if the pass is not blacked out for that day.
The days are over where you could, on a whim, go to the park with your (no blackout) pass and simply get in.
Up until the pandemic, for many years I purchased three platinum (no blackout) passes to WDW. When the reservation system was implemented, I stopped because I understood we could no longer go to the park on a whim, and frankly, to me, that platinum (no blackout) pass lost its value if I needed to try to get a reservation on a whim.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Oh same. My wife and I were pass holders (Signature) for almost 4 years, and would more often than not just pop down on a Friday evening after work. No longer being able to do that sucks. We still haven't decided on getting Keys yet, but are leaning more and more towards probably not.
CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Y’all are super pessimistic about a case that is a class action suit filed in California.
The deception is that a reservation would reasonably be anticipated to be open to anyone, while in practice a given date is only open to day pass holders.
That is not in the big print, and legally, fine print doesn’t typically excuse deceptive big print.
The deception is that a reservation would reasonably be anticipated to be open to anyone, while in practice a given date is only open to day pass holders.
That is not in the big print, and legally, fine print doesn’t typically excuse deceptive big print.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Today customers don't know how many seats airlines open up... if any at all.. on flights. It's information customers don't have access to. Customers only get to judge based on their success of getting a flight within the parameters they want. When they feel they can't get what they want.. they think the system is worthless and complain. But they don't get to nitpick the numbers. Neither do Disney APs.
Is this 'ok'? I don't get to decide - I only get to decide with my wallet. If passholders find the model too restrictive, then they should speak with their wallet too.
Ryan120420
Well-Known Member
I can see the wording of " Every Day of the year" as being interpreted as "no blockout dates" considering that for the other passes Disney uses the wording of "Most Days of the year" and "Select Days of the year"
waltography
Well-Known Member
That's ignoring the "reservation-based admission" part, which is also common wording for all the other passes. It's not even implied here, it's straight-up stating you need a reservation in order to be admitted.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
It’s too bad Disney didn’t clarify this, instead they used the very vague “upon availability” which lead people to believe we’d be able to go on all but the few days a year the parks actually sell out.
Whether Disney wins or loses this lawsuit they will lose in the long run, they are driving away their most die hard fans with the Keys and Genie+… it may take a few years but these horrible business practices will bite them in the end If they don’t alter the course.
CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Which is great except the lawsuit is specifically about days when there were reservations available, but not for Magic Key holders. That’s the deception.
waltography
Well-Known Member
Sure. I was specifically addressing the blackout days terminology, which seems to persist in the thread despite that not being the central argument of the lawsuit.
As for the different buckets for Key Holders vs. day ticket holders, I think Disney could have been much smarter in automating the release of unreserved spots (that seems to be asking too much from Disney IT though, for god knows what reason), but I wouldn't say it's "deception" when the earlier iteration of the Magic Key (the Flex Pass) also had in effect the same system.
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
When I tell you the best Disneyland experience of my life was there not being passholders.....*gestures broadly*