Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR

[Professortango1]

Disney did make a promise, pretty straightforward, NO BLACK OUT DATES unless they are capacity. Disney has not been full but a very few select days. If Disney allows a person to buy a single day ticket that factually proves they are not full on that day! If single day tickets are available then the pass for 1399.00 should get you in 100% of the time!

What I don't understand is how anyone isn't on the side of any pass-holder in this particular case.

I don't believe they ever said capacity, they said availability.

And it makes sense for Disney to reserve a portion of the availability for General Admission. #1, General Admission folks pay more. It also gets them new customers who didn't opt for a pass for a variety of reasons (location, never visited before, availability, etc).

What I don't understand is how any key holder can be mad if they are able to visit the park 7-10 times per year. They are still saving money. Sure, you can't go 30-40 times per year anymore, but Disney doesn't want you to. With the cheapest pass, once you book your 3 days out of the gate, you've saved money.

Do I think some of the fault lies with Disney? You bet. They should have limited the sales on the passes far earlier than they did. But then look how folks reacted when their beloved passes were sold out. Disney has created an entitled child with their passholder program. I'm glad they are finally starting to rein it in. Hopefully they can get rid of the payment plan option in the future to balance out the demand again.

 

[mickEblu]

That is also an ASSUMPTION based on a model that no longer exists - the model before park reservations were used.

The plantiff is trying to make a case out of the idea that Disney has different availability buckets - which is something well within Disney's right to do. The plantiff just ASSUMES their pass is always the highest priority - a promise Disney never made.

I don’t think Disney will lose but I think there may be a case here. Again, I think the bigger thing is that it should only take a reasonable amount of effort to secure a reservation. If you buy an “annual pass” and then have to win the lottery to get a reservation that could be an issue. But hey look - right on time Disney has a bunch of reservations available for Dream Keys during Christmas week. “See judge, they can come on Christmas Day if they want.”

 

[flynnibus]

Disney did make a promise, pretty straightforward, NO BLACK OUT DATES unless they are capacity.

Sorry - no, that's not the promise. Your interpretation added 'unless they are at capacity'. That's not the terms disney offered.

The pass doesn't have blockout dates - but it's use is still bound by availibility of park reservations.

Disney has not been full but a very few select days. If Disney allows a person to buy a single day ticket that factually proves they are not full on that day! If single day tickets are available then the pass for 1399.00 should get you in 100% of the time!

Your opinion - but not what they sold.

 

[el_super]

That is also an ASSUMPTION based on a model that no longer exists - the model before park reservations were used.

The plantiff is trying to make a case out of the idea that Disney has different availability buckets - which is something well within Disney's right to do. The plantiff just ASSUMES their pass is always the highest priority - a promise Disney never made.

Disney said there were no blockout dates. For the passholder though, not being able to get a reservation can effectively be the same as a blockout date. All the passholder knows is that they were told by Disney they couldn't go on a specific date.

The ambiguity here is in Disney asserting that blockout dates and lack of availability are two different things, but since Disney gets to decide both, it's hard to see the functional difference. Both result in someone being unable to use the pass.

I do think Disney needs to find a way to better communicate availability of reservations rather than saying "no blockout dates"

 

[dovetail65]

Nope it literally state THEME PARK CAPACITY LIMITATIONS.


*Annual Passholder may visit more than one Theme Park per day. Passholder must make a Theme Park reservation via the Disney Park Pass reservation system for the first Theme Park they plan to visit. After entering that first Theme Park, Passholder will be able to visit the next Theme Park starting at 2 p.m. until each Theme Park's regularly scheduled closure.

The ability to visit a Theme Park is subject to the Theme Park's capacity limitations.

At this time a Theme Park reservation is not required after the first Theme Park, however, reservation requirements are subject to change.

 

[DrAlice]

Nope it literally state THEME PARK CAPACITY LIMITATIONS.


*Annual Passholder may visit more than one Theme Park per day. Passholder must make a Theme Park reservation via the Disney Park Pass reservation system for the first Theme Park they plan to visit. After entering that first Theme Park, Passholder will be able to visit the next Theme Park starting at 2 p.m. until each Theme Park's regularly scheduled closure.

The ability to visit a Theme Park is subject to the Theme Park's capacity limitations.

At this time a Theme Park reservation is not required after the first Theme Park, however, reservation requirements are subject to change.

Splitting hairs, but this is from the WDW site and may not be the same language as on DL's site. A quick look (there might be something different in another spot, but I got tired of looking) on DL's site found this similar wording:

"To enter a theme park, each Magic Key holder must have a theme park reservation in addition to a valid Magic Key pass. Park reservations are limited and subject to availability, public health orders and applicable pass blockout dates, and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park. Magic Key pass blockout dates and admission dates will vary by pass type and theme park. Additionally, park reservations may not be available on select holidays for certain theme parks. Park reservations for select dates and parks may be made available on a rolling basis. Check for updated availability. A Magic Key pass does not guarantee admission or access to any experience, attraction or offering or to park entry."

There is a lot in here, but I think Disney will hit hard on that last sentence.

BTW, I'm not defending Disney in this at all. I think what they did with these passes is borderline sketchy, and they've brought this lawsuit on themselves. On the other hand, I don't see them losing.

 

[Professortango1]

Nope it literally state THEME PARK CAPACITY LIMITATIONS.


*Annual Passholder may visit more than one Theme Park per day. Passholder must make a Theme Park reservation via the Disney Park Pass reservation system for the first Theme Park they plan to visit. After entering that first Theme Park, Passholder will be able to visit the next Theme Park starting at 2 p.m. until each Theme Park's regularly scheduled closure.

The ability to visit a Theme Park is subject to the Theme Park's capacity limitations.

At this time a Theme Park reservation is not required after the first Theme Park, however, reservation requirements are subject to change.

That's for the WDW Annual Passes, not the Disneyland Magic Keys.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

Based on the wording it does not mention park availability is capped differently for AP Holders vs Ticket Holders.

There very well could be a case here. I'm no legal expert but it is misleading to say the park has no availability, but people with tickets or different tiers of pass can still get it. This was never explicitly stated.

It does not have to say it. Disney never in it's history before the pandemic revealed capacity levels and now that they are not required by the government to do so they don't have to and everything you need to know is in the fine print before you purchase a magic key. This is going to be thrown out quickly.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney said there were no blockout dates. For the passholder though, not being able to get a reservation can effectively be the same as a blockout date. All the passholder knows is that they were told by Disney they couldn't go on a specific date.

The ambiguity here is in Disney asserting that blockout dates and lack of availability are two different things, but since Disney gets to decide both, it's hard to see the functional difference. Both result in someone being unable to use the pass.

By that logic... having my car break down is also 'effectively' a blockout date. Just equating your inability to go as 'the same thing' is lazy.

One thing is based on calendar - one thing is based on dynamic availability. They are not the same thing, and no lazy bridge of words like 'effective' make it as such.

I do think Disney needs to find a way to better communicate availability of reservations rather than saying "no blockout dates"

They do.. it's called 'reservation availability'. Equating 'can't go' with 'blockout dates' is the definition of lazy logic.

When you can't use your 'no blackout date' airline miles to book a flight because there are no seats available in that fare class you don't equate lack of seats with blackout dates.

The fundamentals here are the ASSUMPTION by the plantiff that 'Disneyland rarely sells out, so my availability is wide open'. They assumed all customers are equal. The courts will have to decide if customers get that kind of protecting the stupid.

 

[flynnibus]

That's for the WDW Annual Passes, not the Disneyland Magic Keys.

And it's also talking about the availability of park hopping - not all admissions in general.

 

[Professortango1]

My movie theatre blacked me out of a showing of Spider-Man this weekend. I have a pass that gets me into the movies for one monthly fee, but they said I couldn't see tonight's showing because it was "sold out." How dare they black out my pass without telling me.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

My movie theatre blacked me out of a showing of Spider-Man this weekend. I have a pass that gets me into the movies for one monthly fee, but they said I couldn't see tonight's showing because it was "sold out." How dare they black out my pass without telling me.

Being sold out is different from saying we have seats available but you can’t use the pass you paid for because we want to sell the seat to someone else.

 

[Professortango1]

Being sold out is different from saying we have seats available but you can’t use the pass you paid for because we want to sell the seat to someone else.

Movie theatres do that all of the time. New movies are often exempt from Free Tickets and such because they are reserving the seats for paying General Admission folks.

And remember, the AP Reservations were effectively sold out. The available number was already taken up by other passholders.

 

[waltography]

Splitting hairs, but this is from the WDW site and may not be the same language as on DL's site. A quick look (there might be something different in another spot, but I got tired of looking) on DL's site found this similar wording:

"To enter a theme park, each Magic Key holder must have a theme park reservation in addition to a valid Magic Key pass. Park reservations are limited and subject to availability, public health orders and applicable pass blockout dates, and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park. Magic Key pass blockout dates and admission dates will vary by pass type and theme park. Additionally, park reservations may not be available on select holidays for certain theme parks. Park reservations for select dates and parks may be made available on a rolling basis. Check for updated availability. A Magic Key pass does not guarantee admission or access to any experience, attraction or offering or to park entry."

There is a lot in here, but I think Disney will hit hard on that last sentence.

BTW, I'm not defending Disney in this at all. I think what they did with these passes is borderline sketchy, and they've brought this lawsuit on themselves. On the other hand, I don't see them losing.

This is correct, and to further add, the terminology Disneyland's used consistently in all marketing/promotional materials is "reservation-based admission to one or both theme parks (some/most/every) day of the year."

While I'd like a win for my benefit (since I do have a Dream Key), I don't really see a case here.

 

[Parteecia]

So pass availability compared to tickets is the issue.

"Soon after buying the pass, Nielsen says she found that she couldn’t make a reservation to visit the park on any weekend in November, according to the suit. When she checked the Disneyland reservation website, she saw that the park was open for reservations for single- and multiple-day ticket buyers, who are charged up to $224 per visit."

Lawsuit says Disneyland's Magic Key annual pass program favors daily ticket buyers

A longtime Disney fan is asking a court to certify her complaint as a class-action lawsuit, claiming Disney misled buyers on its new annual passes.

www.latimes.com

 

[DrAlice]

On principal, I think her argument is valid. I just don't think it will get anywhere legally.

I'm most interested to see what (if?) anything comes of this from an image/brand loyalty standpoint. What will the average key-holder make of this story? Will this effect sales next year? Or will this be forgotten by then?

 

[flynnibus]

So pass availability compared to tickets is the issue.

so its basically suing because they are butthurt over being treated as a different group… even though they actually are.

 

[Professortango1]

so its basically suing because they are butthurt over being treated as a different group… even though they actually are.

APers always wanted to be treated differently than General Admission Guests. Well, they got their wish. lol

 

[CaptinEO]

On principal, I think her argument is valid. I just don't think it will get anywhere legally.

I'm most interested to see what (if?) anything comes of this from an image/brand loyalty standpoint. What will the average key-holder make of this story? Will this effect sales next year? Or will this be forgotten by then?

I agree with you and it is shady on Disney's side to never mention that APs and ticketholders have different availability for each day (a day can sell out for passholders but they can buy a ticket to come in).

I'm glad I don't have a Magical Key, early adopters had to find these things out the hard way.

But as I mentioned Disney has some amazing lawyers. My limited knowledge of the legal system is that whoever has the most time and money wins. However good for someone calling Disney out on shady tactics legally.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

APers always wanted to be treated differently than General Admission Guests. Well, they got their wish. lol

This gave me a good chuckle, because it's true.