Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR

[el_super]

By that logic... having my car break down is also 'effectively' a blockout date. Just equating your inability to go as 'the same thing' is lazy.

Big difference between some outside event like a car breaking down preventing you from going, and Disney making your admission media invalid for the day.

One thing is based on calendar - one thing is based on dynamic availability. They are not the same thing, and no lazy bridge of words like 'effective' make it as such.

What determines blackout dates: demand projections.

What determines reservation availability: demand projections.

The only real difference between them is that on SOME days Disney allows some fraction of the population to make a reservation to get in, and on other days they do not.

We all assume that Disney is acting in good faith and trying to be responsible toward capacity and attendance, but at what point does this cross into fraud? If they only offered reservations for 10% of Keyholders on any given day? 5%? What if they only offered one reservation to one pre-selected Keyholder purposefully to lock out the others? Does that not seem like fraud?

When you can't use your 'no blackout date' airline miles to book a flight because there are no seats available in that fare class you don't equate lack of seats with blackout dates.

Bad example. Airline miles are usually bonuses or incentives over other purchases. This woman specifically bought a pass to Disneyland that was advertised as having no blockouts, and then was told by Disney she couldn't go.

I don't really feel that she is entitled to anything but a refund on the pass (did she even ask for one?), but I do think that the way Disney represented the passes and availability was misleading.

 

[Stevek]

As a magic key holder, even I think this lawsuit is a joke. I personally don't see anything as shady. The park reservations system didn't have to be spelled out for anyone i.e. some reservations for day tickets, some for key holders. I don't fault Disney at all for keeping day passes available for non MK guests. The concerns of having access, regardless of pass, was widely discussed here and multiple other places based on the terms and conditions Disney posted. We all knew it was going to be very different, some people went in blindly thinking they would have 24/7 access like the old passes. The fact that they re-named it should have been a major clue that this wasn't going to be like the old annual pass program.

 

[flynnibus]

Big difference between some outside event like a car breaking down preventing you from going, and Disney making your admission media invalid for the day.

Irrelevant - because the equality is being established on the outcome, not the input. That's why the whole postulate is wrong to start with. And that's what the example proves.

The only real difference between them is that on SOME days Disney allows some fraction of the population to make a reservation to get in, and on other days they do not.

No, again, the definition is the the definition, not 'what it looks like'. Two things that look alike and have same end results are not necessarily the same. They are just similar outcomes.

Bad example. Airline miles are usually bonuses or incentives over other purchases. This woman specifically bought a pass to Disneyland that was advertised as having no blockouts, and then was told by Disney she couldn't go.

No, again, it's the perfect example... stop comparing the outcomes and actually look at the inputs. You don't get to redefine 'blackout date' simply because the outcome was you being excluded.. FOR DIFFERENT REASONS (inputs)

 

[chadwpalm]

Easy fix, get rid of the reservation system altogether.

The reservation system (in my opinion) is the best thing to happen to Disneyland in a LONG time.

As someone who goes only once, sometimes twice a year, I certainly was getting tire of this:

I don't understand how anyone would want that back.

 

[shambolicdefending]

One of three things is going to happen:

A. This lawsuit gets thrown out and everything proceeds as is - I give this about 90% odds.

B. Disney is found to have some liability based on a narrow reading of applicable law and some unintentional loopholes in their fine print. They pay out an amount that basically equates to a day's lunch money for them, update their fine print and terminology and... everything else proceeds as is. I give this about 9% odds.

C. Disney gets a worst-case-scenario ruling based on a controversial reading of the law that opens them up to all kind of other liabilities associated with their ticketing system. As a result, they blow the whole thing up again. But don't think for a second it will be a win for legacy APs. Whatever they come up with after that will be even more expensive and exclusive than the Magic Keys because they are never going back to the old system. I give this about 1% odds.

 

[Phroobar]

The reservation system (in my opinion) is the best thing to happen to Disneyland in a LONG time.

As someone who goes only once, sometimes twice a year, I certainly was getting tire of this:

View attachment 608658

I don't understand how anyone would want that back.

Even the Genie+ system is good too since it forces Magic Key holders to just use the standby instead of always grabbing FPs. This makes less people with Lightning passes and the standby line moves better. It just doesn't work well on special overlays like Small World Holiday and Haunted Mansion Holiday.

Now if we can just get rid of the monthly payment program.

 

[mickEblu]

The reservation system (in my opinion) is the best thing to happen to Disneyland in a LONG time.

As someone who goes only once, sometimes twice a year, I certainly was getting tire of this:

View attachment 608658

I don't understand how anyone would want that back.

I don’t want that back. The issue is everyday now is about 85% of what you see in that pic. We don’t have the opportunity to cherry pick less crowded days anymore. With that said, I can see how an infrequent visitor would prefer the predictability of the current attendance levels as well as prefer something like genie + ensuring that they ll not only get on certain attractions but will wait less time than with the old free fast pass system.

 

[Phroobar]

It's sad there isn't uncrowded days anymore since Disney just backfills with AP reservations. However pay for FS sure does make the standby line move better.

 

[mickEblu]

It's sad there isn't uncrowded days anymore since Disney just backfills with AP reservations. However pay for FS sure does make the standby line move better.

Well not better than if there was no fast pass at all. So it’s hard to get excited about lines moving quicker than early 2020 when standby lines have moved very quickly the last 6 months since they reopened.

 

[mickEblu]

I suppose I’m playing right into their hands when I say that I will be purchasing Genie + for any days that I’m planning on being at the parks for the majority of the day AND standby wait times are too long. When you ve already invested so much time, energy and money to get to the park it would be stupid not to. Now when it comes to renew that’s a different story.

 

[chadwpalm]

I don’t want that back. The issue is everyday now is about 85% of what you see in that pic. We don’t have the opportunity to cherry pick less crowded days anymore. With that said, I can see how an infrequent visitor would prefer the predictability of the current attendance levels as well as prefer something like genie + ensuring that they ll not only get on certain attractions but will wait less time than with the old free fast pass system.

To me, perceived crowdedness is based on two factors: How many bodies are in the park and how quickly the lines are moving (wait times).

If I were to quantify crowded by a scale of say 1 to 10, I've been to Disneyland on a day where they pretty much close the gates and stop letting people in, and that would be a 10. Over the years (pre-covid), based on well-thought-out planning and research, I'd say my average trip was probably around a 7.

When I went over Thanksgiving week, I'd say that the number of people in the park was about that level....maybe a 7 or 7.5, but because there were no Fastpasses at that time the wait times made it feel like a 5 or 6. That leads me to this...

Well not better than if there was no fast pass at all. So it’s hard to get excited about lines moving quicker than early 2020 when standby lines have moved very quickly the last 6 months since they reopened.

Fastpass definitely alters the perceived crowdedness in the parks. While before my trip I actually was hoping there was Genie+ (for curiosity's sake because I was hoping their planning system would be top-notch, which it isn't), I'm actually glad I got to experience the parks without Fastpass and with a capped reservation system. I felt like I got my money's worth.

 

[Tom P.]

$5 million? Give me a break. No one's life is ruined because they can't get in to Disneyland. Refund the cost of her pass and move on with life. Good grief.

 

[Stevek]

$5 million? Give me a break. No one's life is ruined because they can't get in to Disneyland. Refund the cost of her pass and move on with life. Good grief.

You'd be surprised. I'm sure that there are many people who's lives have been "ruined" because they can't go to Disneyland on a whim or 5 times a week anymore.

 

[Disstevefan1]

$5 million? Give me a break. No one's life is ruined because they can't get in to Disneyland. Refund the cost of her pass and move on with life. Good grief.

I think the 5 million is an arbitrary number. This lawsuit is really to bring to light the “no blackout” key pass that, for all practical purposes, has blackouts.

For all who think there is no blackouts for the “no blackout” ticket, consider this, you just purchased you top tier ticket with no blackouts and then try to get a park pass reservation and can’t. You then walk over to the ticket booth and buy a day ticket for the same day and get in no problem.

I know there are folks who will defend Disney but this is just wrong.

All this said, the powerful Disney lawyers will win.

The only thing the lowly guest can expect is for Disney to make a change to the park pass reservation system to make it fairer for the “no blackout“ ticket holders..

 

[mickEblu]

The issues with the reservation system effects all keyholders the same. It was hard (or you could not ) get reservations on days that you weren’t blacked out. The only difference with Dream Keys is the bad press created by a No Blackout pass that can’t get a reservation. The backlash is harder from that group because they paid more, expected more and/or didn’t understand the new system

 

[Phroobar]

I think the 5 million is an arbitrary number. This lawsuit is really to bring to light the “no blackout” key pass that, for all practical purposes, has blackouts.

For all who think there is no blackouts for the “no blackout” ticket, consider this, you just purchased you top tier ticket with no blackouts and then try to get a park pass reservation and can’t. You then walk over to the ticket booth and buy a day ticket for the same day and get in no problem.

I know there are folks who will defend Disney but this is just wrong.

All this said, the powerful Disney lawyers will win.

The only thing the lowly guest can expect is for Disney to make a change to the park pass reservation system to make it fairer for the “no blackout“ ticket holders..

If you keep watching the day you want to get in, it will eventually open up. The same strategy works for Oga's cantina day of your visit.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If you keep watching the day you want to get in, it will eventually open up. The same strategy works for Oga's cantina day of your visit.

No guarantees, possibly yes, possibly no.
If you really, really want to get in that day, go to the ticket booth and buy a day ticket.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The issues with the reservation system effects all keyholders the same. It was hard (or you could not ) get reservations on days that you weren’t blacked out. The only difference with Dream Keys is the bad press created by a No Blackout pass that can’t get a reservation. The backlash is harder from that group because they paid more, expected more and/or didn’t understand the new system

What the top tier key pass holders did not understand (because they were never told) was there is a finite number of reservations available to the top tier key pass having nothing to do with park capacity, since other tickets could get in on the same day

Before the park pass reservation was needed, no blackouts really meant no blackouts. Yes sure, some days the parks reached capacity, but that applied to everyone, that was understandable and fair.

They should drop the “no blackout“ wording as it does not mean the same thing today as it did before park pass reservations existed.

 

[Mac Tonight]

What the top tier key pass holders did not understand (because they were never told) was there is a finite number of reservations available to the top tier key pass having nothing to do with park capacity, since other tickets could get in on the same day

Before the park pass reservation was needed, no blackouts really meant no blackouts. Yes sure, some days the parks reached capacity, but that applied to everyone, that was understandable and fair.

They should drop the “no blackout“ wording as it does not mean the same thing today as it did before park pass reservations existed.

So if I understand you correctly, the enemy of the top-tier "no blockout" key holders... were just other top-tier "no blockout" key holders??

 

[flynnibus]

For all who think there is no blackouts for the “no blackout” ticket, consider this, you just purchased you top tier ticket with no blackouts and then try to get a park pass reservation and can’t. You then walk over to the ticket booth and buy a day ticket for the same day and get in no problem.

gou have airline miles with no blackouts… and find you there are no seats you can get with your miles, but if you outright buy a ticket.. there are seats.

yet… the program is called no blackout dates… because you are lkmited by availability of seats/admissions available for your program - not seats on the plane