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Disneyland officially reopening April 30th
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
flynnibus
Premium Member
And GAC abuse was so bad Disney changed the program and fought multi-year court battles to defend it. They wouldn't have done that if the impact wasn't real.
And are those quoted reports polling businesses specifically like Disneyland where customers are expected to wear masks all day long, for days at a time?
Disneyland is not the same as a grocery store, or retail, or a movie theatre. Customer behavior at Disneyland or WDW is not the same as random business. Discussion of other businesses w/o similar operating parameters really is of limited value.
Remember... lots of people had no problem lying to get their vaccine, and these are the people trying to play along... imagine the motivation of people that are pis sy about the mandate in the first place. Far more motivated.
Lying about the vaccine isn't a crime - but there are other angles law enforcement is trying to create the image and scare people away from doing so... citing things like unauthorized use of Gov agency seals... or trying to prosecute people who steal blank CDC cards, etc. Go and look at the specifics - these are really all crimes around other things, not actually the issue of lying about the vaccine. The closest is the California law over forging medical records - https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/california/codes/california_penal_code_471-5 which is a simple misdemeanor. But what kind of proof would Disney require people to have? There is no universal thing.. or what about the people who show up without their card.. they gonna send them home? What training would anyone have to identify forgeries?
Disney doesn't even stand up to shoplifters, you really think they are going to put Anaheim PD on people at the gate over suspicious vaccine records? Not gonna happen.
It's just not practical for a site like Disneyland or most places of public accommodation where you don't have a continuing relationship with the person. That's why there is so much interest in the vaccine passports, etc. But that isn't gonna be settled in this time period.
The big push is to 'return to normal' by the summer... you're going to see a rapid deconstruction of barriers, not fights to strengthen existing ones.
Stevek
Well-Known Member
Businesses were always a wild card anyways I think given a private business can dictate their own policies i.e. no shoes, no shirts, (no masks), no service. There will likely be many places that basically say "F it" and we're going to do what we want at this point...I can see many bars going down this path.
el_super
Well-Known Member
A business isn't going to implement a policy unless they are basically being forced to do so by some other external force.
In this particular instance (in California, I'm not at all sure about Oregon), this is related a CalOSHA COVID-19 Emergency Order for employee safety. That order mandated:
The employer shall develop COVID-19 policies and procedures to minimize employee exposure to COVID-19 hazards originating from any person not wearing a face covering, including a member of the public.
This was actually brought up in an interview with the LA County Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer:On Wednesday, the Governor seemed to remove the “massively large” from his indoor prohibition, telling reporters, “For indoor activities we still will have, likely, some mask mandates. But the hope is those will be lifted sooner rather than later.”
In Los Angeles on Thursday, Ferrer was asked repeatedly on a call with reporters whether the CDC guidance ended all mask requirements for fully-vaccinated people.
“I think there’s a lot more that got said in the documents that got issued today,” she said. “We’ll be talking it under advisement. This was not pre-released to local health departments.”
Ferrer noted that local health officials can be more strict that state and federal guidelines. She also said that the state’s Division of Occupational Safety and Health, CalOSHA, will not even meet until next week to consider any changes.
Confusing Messages From Officials On CDC Mask Announcement
“At businesses, whether indoors or outdoors, masks are still required to be worn,” said Los Angeles Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer Thursday afternoon. Just minutes before, Presid…
deadline.com
So while the CDC is dropping their mask mandate, a lot of lower agencies still need to review and advise on their lower mandates (and the CDC release specifically mentioned that any restrictive mandates from state/count/city officials still need to be followed). Now interestingly enough I have seen that at least one casino chain in Vegas has now entirely lifted their mask requirements for guests, but I am assuming they don't have to worry about CalOSHA regulations there (do they even have an OSHA in Nevada?)
el_super
Well-Known Member
Don't know if it applies to WDW, but Disney posted a notice to their cast in Anaheim basically saying they would review the news, but no changes to announce at this time. It is 2:30 on a Friday after all and I'm sure Chapek has had a rough week.
Stevek
Well-Known Member
re: Florida, Orange County FL announced that masks are no longer required outdoors as well.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
If you Google the following... mls-319813_r
...it takes you to a PDF of the vaccine card you may download and keep to print out yourself at home. State health authorities are offering that PDF as a courtesy service because there's no way to keep the awkwardly shaped paper card in good condition after a few weeks of being folded and handled.
This is not a difficult thing to produce, and it's meaningless as a form of proof of anything.
It took Sacramento over 14 (Fourteen!) years to get the California DMV to meet the Real ID federal guidelines for driver's licenses, and Sacramento needed multiple years-long extensions. And we are to believe that Sacramento is going to create some sort of official vaccine passport? That's hysterical!
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I just got back from Trader Joe's about two hours ago. The location across the freeway from me no longer requires masks, and since they know the vaccine cards from the CDC are meaningless they aren't requiring proof of vaccination to enter the store maskless.
All the kids working there were maskless, including the managers in their Hawaiian shirts. Most shoppers, including me, took their masks off. It had the feel of the last day of school for some reason, and it was fun to see my favorite clerk's faces again!
Trader Joe's wasted no time in ditching the mask rules today, companywide. Coming home on the radio I heard WalMart also announced the same thing today.
All the kids working there were maskless, including the managers in their Hawaiian shirts. Most shoppers, including me, took their masks off. It had the feel of the last day of school for some reason, and it was fun to see my favorite clerk's faces again!
Trader Joe's wasted no time in ditching the mask rules today, companywide. Coming home on the radio I heard WalMart also announced the same thing today.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Some State health authorities literally have the official PDF of the vaccine card available for download on their public websites, as a service to people who lost or damaged their little paper card with the ballpoint pen scribbles on it.
The CDC vaccine cards have no barcode, no QR code, no serial number. It's a little piece of paper that proves almost nothing, and it's available to download for free from your local health authority.
If some restaurant required "proof of vaccination", I could download a card and scribble a few numbers on it and a signature, and happily show it to the 20 year old restaurant hostess who would then lead me to my table. Similarly, if Disneyland required proof of vaccination, I could download a card and scribble on it and then show it to the 20 year old CM at the turnstiles who would then make the turnstile make the chirp noise to let me into the park.
There's absolutely no system in place for a business to track actual vaccinations of customers in real time. It will be years and years before such an ID system is in place, and then what would be the point of that in 2024?
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truecoat
Well-Known Member
Some State health authorities literally have the official PDF of the vaccine card available for download on their public websites, as a service to people who lost or damaged their little paper card with the ballpoint pen scribbles on it.
The CDC vaccine cards have no barcode, no QR code, no serial number. It's a little piece of paper that proves almost nothing, and it's available to download for free from your local health authority.
If some restaurant required "proof of vaccination", I could download a card and scribble a few numbers on it and a signature, and happily show it to the 20 year old restaurant hostess who would then lead me to my table. Similarly, if Disneyland required proof of vaccination, I could download a card and scribble on it and then show it to the 20 year old CM at the turnstiles who would then make the turnstile make the chirp noise to let me into the park.
There's absolutely no system in place for a business to track actual vaccinations of customers in real time. It will be years and years before such an ID system is in place, and then what would be the point of that in 2024?
Even if you can why would you risk the penalty? It's a federal crime to do what you suggest.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
It's a federal crime to smoke pot, but a lot of people do that too.
Heck, it's a federal crime to do a lot of things that many states or localities allow.
I guess it could be a crime to falsify CDC cards, but who would the arresting officer be? The restaurant hostess? The turnstile CM? The Orange County Sherriff already joined most other police organizations in publicly stating their deputies would not be enforcing Covid regulations or getting involved in Covid mandates issued by Sacramento.
I already have a CDC card, but I don't carry it with me because it's just paper and it's shaped badly to fit in my wallet. Whoever designed these cards obviously doesn't have a slim wallet, or didn't think people would carry it with them for all eternity. It really seems designed to just be an appointment reminder card for your second shot, not a passport to commerce and industry.
But if Disneyland starts requiring CDC cards, is it a crime for me to print out the replacement one and then forge the nurses signature? I have no idea who that nurse was, and I can't read her writing. Do I have to go find her again somehow? Is it a federal crime to present a replacement CDC card that lacks the nurses signature? Does Disneyland then turn me away if the nurses scribble isn't present on the replacement card?
You go down a rabbit hole here, obviously. And I'm sure there are federal crimes involved. How long are we supposed to keep these little paper cards anyway??? What if I lose it? Or it goes into the wash and disintegrates?
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truecoat
Well-Known Member
My point was most people wouldn't do it because even though they'd never get called on it, the risk isn't worth it in their mind.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Ah. Well, the type of person who eschews vaccines, or wants to wait a year or two to see the dust settle on the Covid vaccine specifically, is certainly going to consider printing out a replacement card and scribbling on it if that's what it takes to go to Disneyland, or out to dinner, or fly on an airplane.
For many people, this type of "crime" will seem slightly more naughty than ripping the fire safety tags off your pillows.
The thought that these little useless paper cards would be required even short-term as some sort of passport to engage with commerce and industry is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in years. I mean, I know bureaucrats are clueless and too many "journalists" aren't allowed to ask obvious questions of them on how these cards might work. But really you guys? A paper card?
Honestly, who the heck with half a brain thinks these CDC cards are actually going to be a thing that your local supermarket or Red Robin asks to see before a transaction?
Trader Joe's is not even touching it. They just went with an honor system. That's about all any business can do.
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Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
I want it put on the official record that I would not falsify a vaccine card, k?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Noted. And I agree with you. I'm just thinking ahead with an uncharacteristically criminal mind.
But... can you please provide photographic proof that the federal fire safety tags are still attached to all your pillows? Thanks.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
College students never lie.
-College professor
-College professor
truecoat
Well-Known Member
Ah. Well, the type of person who eschews vaccines, or wants to wait a year or two to see the dust settle on the Covid vaccine specifically, is certainly going to consider printing out a replacement card and scribbling on it if that's what it takes to go to Disneyland, or out to dinner, or fly on an airplane.
For many people, this type of "crime" will seem slightly more naughty than ripping the fire safety tags off your pillows.
The thought that these little useless paper cards would be required even short-term as some sort of passport to engage with commerce and industry is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in years. I mean, I know bureaucrats are clueless and too many "journalists" aren't allowed to ask obvious questions of them on how these cards might work. But really you guys? A paper card?
Honestly, who the heck with half a brain thinks these CDC cards are actually going to be a thing that your local supermarket or Red Robin asks to see before a transaction?
Trader Joe's is not even touching it. They just went with an honor system. That's about all any business can do.
You don't need a card to figure out if someone is vaccinated. Just ask them who won the election.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
You'll just have to get another injection for a replacement silvenir card.