News Disneyland modifies mask policy - UPDATE 7/28/21

[iLikeMountains]

I don't remember that being in the constitution.

True. A perceived right I guess. I meant it more as in the bill of rights is so ingrained into this country, you'd have a much harder time enforcing a federal vaccine mandate compared to France or Israel for example. I'd like decisions that decrease civil unrest rather than stoke it even further.

 

[Disney Irish]

The vaccinated cannot get sick.

This is actually not true and is a misunderstanding of how vaccines work.

A vaccine does not completely prevent infection, its not like a shield, none do that. What it does is to train your body in how to recognize and fight off the virus if infection occurs. Leading to less severe symptoms which is good if you're trying to prevent people from dying.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

True. A perceived right I guess. I meant it more as in the bill of rights is so ingrained into this country, you'd have a much harder time enforcing a federal vaccine mandate compared to France or Israel for example. I'd like decisions that decrease civil unrest rather than stoke it even further.

Considering the deadly prevalence of smallpox in the late 1700s and other curable diseases that existed at the time of the drafting of the Bill of Rights, I wonder how the founders would actually feel if they knew the Bill of Rights were to be used as a means to dismiss or forestall modern medical advancements.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Considering the deadly prevalence of smallpox in the late 1700s and other curable diseases that existed at the time of the drafting of the Bill of Rights, I wonder how the founders would actually feel if they knew the Bill of Rights were to be used as a means to dismiss or forestall modern medical advancements.

I saw someone ask (not here) the other day if it was okay to ask a restaurant server (who would be serving them food) if they were vaccinated (not the server's boss - the server).

A "mental health professional" tried to say HIPAA prevented this. (It doesn't.)
Many tried to say it was a violation of civil rights. (It isn't.)
MANY told the person asking the question to "stay the *F* home!"

I'd bet $1000 that 90% of the people answering weren't vaccinated.

 

[Disney Irish]

True. A perceived right I guess. I meant it more as in the bill of rights is so ingrained into this country, you'd have a much harder time enforcing a federal vaccine mandate compared to France or Israel for example. I'd like decisions that decrease civil unrest rather than stoke it even further.

Actually for the most part the social contract accepted in this country for generations now is that vaccinations are a requirement in a lot of cases. Its only been in the last decade or so where this anti-vax movement has popped up, mostly due to uneducated celebrities opening their mouths and spewing out misinformation.

For example all 50 states require children to get specific vaccinations (COVID is not on the list yet but probably will be once under 12 are approved) in order to attend school. Only a small handful of states allow for a philosophical exemption which the "right" you're talking about.

And in the state of California which is the state where the Disney Park this thread is about resides, there are no exemptions allowed all kids must be vaccinated in order to attend school.

Or in another example the travel industry has required certain vaccinations when traveling abroad for decades.

At the federal level they can and do enact vaccination policies for federal employees including military as they do with everything else. The rest is left up to states, but if its like other vaccinations then it'll be required for school enrollment at some point as mentioned above.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

"Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now," - Thomas Jefferson

I consider myself a Madisonian but I’ll do you one better.

<<“One of Walt Disney’s most popular fictional characters has made an indirect contribution to the conversation surrounding the incoming vaccine for Covid-19. “A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down,” Mary Poppins warbled in the timeless 1964 film. It seems the song had its origins in the vaccination campaign against polio. Jeffrey Sherman, a son and nephew of the Sherman brothers – renowned composers of every second Disney classic – recalled the story on his Facebook page.

“When I was a kid, they rolled out a vaccine for polio. We were given it at school on a sugar cube,” Sherman recalled. “I went home and my dad, who was working on Mary Poppins, asked how my day was.”

Unbeknown to Jeffrey, Robert B Sherman, his father, and Richard M Sherman, his uncle, had just heard that Julie Andrews – later to win an Oscar for the lead role – was unhappy with Through the Eyes of Love, their favourite song from the initial score, and they were desperately trying to conjure up a replacement.

“Dad asked me how my day was and I told him about getting the polio vaccine at school,” Sherman continued. “I was known for rejecting the booster shots at my doctors’ office and running away. He said: ‘Didn’t it hurt?’ I told him they put it on a sugar cube and you just ate it. He stared at me, then went to the phone and called my uncle Dick.”

The boys sat down and wrote A Spoonful of Sugar.>>

Spoonful of Sugar: How Mary Poppins contributed to the Covid vaccine story

Julie Andrews’s song was inspired by a polio immunisation, according to its writer’s son

www.irishtimes.com

 

[iLikeMountains]

Considering the deadly prevalence of smallpox in the late 1700s and other curable diseases that existed at the time of the drafting of the Bill of Rights, I wonder how the founders would actually feel if they knew the Bill of Rights were to be used as a means to dismiss or forestall modern medical advancements.

Frustrated. Again, this is not my view. I'm vaccinated and advocate for it. I only refer to the bill of rights to make the point that I don't believe a federal mandate would work in this country. Too many people would believe it infringes on their rights and freedoms.

 

[Tamandua]

I consider myself a Madisonian but I’ll do you one better.

<<“One of Walt Disney’s most popular fictional characters has made an indirect contribution to the conversation surrounding the incoming vaccine for Covid-19. “A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down,” Mary Poppins warbled in the timeless 1964 film. It seems the song had its origins in the vaccination campaign against polio. Jeffrey Sherman, a son and nephew of the Sherman brothers – renowned composers of every second Disney classic – recalled the story on his Facebook page.

“When I was a kid, they rolled out a vaccine for polio. We were given it at school on a sugar cube,” Sherman recalled. “I went home and my dad, who was working on Mary Poppins, asked how my day was.”

Unbeknown to Jeffrey, Robert B Sherman, his father, and Richard M Sherman, his uncle, had just heard that Julie Andrews – later to win an Oscar for the lead role – was unhappy with Through the Eyes of Love, their favourite song from the initial score, and they were desperately trying to conjure up a replacement.

“Dad asked me how my day was and I told him about getting the polio vaccine at school,” Sherman continued. “I was known for rejecting the booster shots at my doctors’ office and running away. He said: ‘Didn’t it hurt?’ I told him they put it on a sugar cube and you just ate it. He stared at me, then went to the phone and called my uncle Dick.”

The boys sat down and wrote A Spoonful of Sugar.>>

Spoonful of Sugar: How Mary Poppins contributed to the Covid vaccine story

Julie Andrews’s song was inspired by a polio immunisation, according to its writer’s son

www.irishtimes.com

It's been a while since I took a drug development class in college, but wouldn't putting it "on a sugar cube" be impossible? The reason we have injection drugs and vaccines is because your stomach breaks down large molecules when you eat them, keeping them from binding to the appropriate receptors. Is this story bs?

 

[Tamandua]

Considering the deadly prevalence of smallpox in the late 1700s and other curable diseases that existed at the time of the drafting of the Bill of Rights, I wonder how the founders would actually feel if they knew the Bill of Rights were to be used as a means to dismiss or forestall modern medical advancements.

The founders were used to diseases with much, much, much, much higher mortality rates. If you told them you were denying people their rights and freedoms over a virus with a 99.7% survival rate, they'd probably shoot you.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

It's been a while since I took a drug development class in college, but wouldn't putting it "on a sugar cube" be impossible? The reason we have injection drugs and vaccines is because your stomach breaks down large molecules when you eat them, keeping them from binding to the appropriate receptors. Is this story bs?

Nope - there was a polio vaccine that could be taken orally.

Two Voluntary Mass Immunization Programs Using Sabin Oral Vaccine

Beginning in January, 1962, two Arizona counties, Maricopa and Pima, conducted separate, but similar, voluntary mass immunization programs using Sabin oral polio vaccine. All clinics were scheduled on Sundays, and school buildings were used as clinic sites. The vaccine was dispensed on sugar...

jamanetwork.com

 

[Disney Irish]

"Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now," - Thomas Jefferson

This is a quote taken out of context, it is based on a larger section about separation of church and state in the state of Virginia.

Also if we based things on medical advice from the 1700s we'd still be using leeches to treat everything and living to the average age of 35.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I'm not confused... Maybe you misinterpreted my rant. My frustration with the CDC backtracking is the message it sends concerning the efficacy of the vaccine. Basically get the vaccine, you're not going to die and you can take the mask off. You had the CDC director on national television saying "the science" has proven these vaccines work, they're proving it in the real world. You're completely safe to take your mask off if you are vaccinated. Now the CDC loses credibility to many once again by running it back.

As for my peers, most have had the "wait and see" mentality. Others have a major mistrust of big pharma, others are so deep in there social media echo chambers that you will never convince them. I have sympathy for them and will continue to try to convince them to get the vaccine, but I'll never hate or blame them either.

Except they said, take the mask off if vaccinated and keep it on if not. Nobody kept it on. Hence the current situation.

They're responding to the reality on the ground, including things like the Delta variant that impact the current approach.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

The founders were used to diseases with much, much, much, much higher mortality rates. If you told them you were denying people their rights and freedoms over a virus with a 99.7% survival rate, they'd probably shoot you.

In this hypothetical if I told the founders I was from the future and asked them where I could rig my time traveling DeLorean to a locomotive to get back to 2021 they’d challenge me to a duel and shoot me, too.

In reality it’s very hard to apply modern standards in this scenario since as medicine and technology advances so greatly so to does the governments compulsory role to establish and provide for the “common defense and promote the general welfare” of its citizenry.

But it’s clear the founders were followers of John Locke and Jean Rousseau believed in the foundation of a social contract and as a means of governance. Even The Godfather of capitalism Adam Smith recognized the role of the state to protect property rights.

 

[Tamandua]

Can we all just take two seconds to remember that none of these vaccines are actually approved by the FDA beyond emergency use authorization? However you view the vaccines, I would hope that reasonable people would agree that it's crazy to demand that everyone take vaccines that are only approved for emergency use. It's fine to go to the most at risk and say "Here... We won't make you wait if you don't want to." And then to offer them to anyone else that wants them voluntarily, but this "we need to make the unvaccinated suffer" (an actual comment I read on this site with many Likes) mentality for vaccines for which we are still collecting data and which are still pending approval? That's not rational. That's insanity and that's hatred for people who are doing nothing but being cautious.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Can we all just take two seconds to remember that none of these vaccines are actually approved by the FDA beyond emergency use authorization? However you view the vaccines, I would hope that reasonable people would agree that it's crazy to demand that everyone take vaccines that are only approved for emergency use. It's fine to go to the most at risk and say "Here... We won't make you wait if you don't want to." And then to offer them to anyone else that wants them voluntarily, but this "we need to make the unvaccinated suffer" (an actual comment I read on this site with many Likes) mentality for vaccines for which we are still collecting data and which are still pending approval? That's not rational. That's insanity and that's hatred for people who are doing nothing but being cautious.

For the love of God.

For the umpteen millionth time...the safety data used for EUA is exactly the same safety data that is used for full authorization. There is no missing data, they don't need to collect more, it's all already there.

The clinical studies were not rushed. The only difference between the clinical studies for COVID vaccines and other clinical studies is that the three levels of studies were run at the same time instead of one at a time.

 

[Tamandua]

In this hypothetical if I told the founders I was from the future and asked them where I could rig my time traveling DeLorean to a locomotive to get back to 2021 they’d challenge me to a duel and shoot me, too.

In reality it’s very hard to apply modern standards in this scenario since as medicine and technology advances so greatly so to does the governments compulsory role to establish and provide for the “common defense and promote the general welfare” of its citizenry.

But it’s clear the founders were followers of John Locke and Jean Rousseau believed in the foundation of a social contract and as a means of governance. Even The Godfather of capitalism Adam Smith recognized the role of the state to protect property rights.

What is the cost of freedom? The lives of the millions of soldiers who died over the history of our country to win and preserve our freedoms pales in comparison to the number of covid deaths, especially when you subtract deaths primarily caused by other factors. I believe freedom is worth a lot more than a little safety, especially when the threat isn't that great and the freedom we trade has not seemed to help much given the data over the last year and a half.

 

[Tamandua]

For the love of God.

For the umpteen millionth time...the safety data used for EUA is exactly the same safety data that is used for full authorization. There is no missing data, they don't need to collect more, it's all already there.

The clinical studies were not rushed. The only difference between the clinical studies for COVID vaccines and other clinical studies is that the three levels of studies were run at the same time instead of one at a time.

They are constantly finding new side effects. Myocarditis was not a known side effect until it the streets.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

They are constantly finding new side effects. Myocarditis was not a known side effect until it the streets.

You are more likely to suffer severe symptoms and die from COVID than you are to experience those side effects.

 

[Tamandua]

You are more likely to suffer severe symptoms and die from COVID than you are to experience those side effects.

I'm not in an at risk category for covid. There's virtually no chance of any real harm from covid for me, whereas there's some chance of harm from the vaccines. The people in my family who took it had severe reactions after each dose. At the very least I'd expect to be sick for several days after each dose. Stop being a vaccine tyrant and acknowledge that it doesn't make sense for everyone.

 

[el_super]

I believe freedom is worth a lot more than a little safety

If this were just a matter of feedom, I'd be all in favor of letting people go about unvaccinated. Since hospitals don't have the freedom to turn those people away though, everyone's safety is compromised by a few. We have the right to protect ourselves from all threats, foreign and domestic.