News Disneyland Magic Key Program

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
So since everyone’s kids like WEBSLINGERS are we saying that it and pretty much everything else Chapek has touched are not objectively much worse thematic experiences compared it to the likes of POTC, HM, Splash etc or are we just old and out of touch? Little of both? If that’s not a fair comparison, how about Star Tours?

Avengers Campus or New Orleans Square? It’s a toss up for me.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
So since everyone’s kids like WEBSLINGERS are we saying that it and pretty much everything else Chapek has touched are not objectively much worse thematic experiences compared it to the likes of POTC, HM, Splash etc or are we just old and out of touch? Little of both? If that’s not a fair comparison, how about Star Tours?

Avengers Campus or New Orleans Square? It’s a toss up for me.
I think it’s all relative to who you ask. I personally don’t think they hold a candle to Pirates or Mansion but there is clearly an audience for these newer attractions, an audience that may not love the classics as much as we do.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I think it’s all relative to who you ask. I personally don’t think they hold a candle to Pirates or Mansion but there is clearly an audience for these newer attractions, an audience that may not love the classics as much as we do.

They do have an audience. I’m part of that audience. Their is no reason WEBSLINGERS could not have been a much better attraction. It’s not that it’s a C/D ticket, that it’s Marvel or that it’s a screen ride. It’s that it’s mostly charmless and lackluster/ underwhelming.
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
I think it’s all relative to who you ask. I personally don’t think they hold a candle to Pirates or Mansion but there is clearly an audience for these newer attractions, an audience that may not love the classics as much as we do.
Is it possible "we" are not the generation they are aiming for?
 

Snoballego

Active Member
Just did some internal math of what would be a value to me...

I am not a California resident but live a reasonable drive distance to the parks. I'd pay $1,250 up front for a Magic Key Park Hopping for 12 Days throughout the Year (even OK with the Christmas Two Week Blackout) that combines the traditional discounts + MaxPass Benefits.

I'd see good value in that even if it required me to still make reservations in advance.
 

SoCalDisneyLover

Well-Known Member
Obviously there is no comparison between Disneyland & Knott's. And I also don't expect Disneyland to be the price value that Knott's is. I'm perfectly willing to pay more to visit Disneyland. But there becomes a price at which Disneyland is no longer a value to me personally. I am older now, and I find it difficult going open to close, which is what I'd feel obligated to do, if I knew there were a limited number of times I could visit the parks. And I don't feel like I necessarily need to visit every day, or several times a week. But being able to pop in every couple of weekends for a half day, is something I enjoyed being able to do with an Annual Pass. And despite the fact it is nowhere near like Disney, it is something I can do with a Knott's season pass.

Anyways, I suppose when I do eventually return, my Disneyland visit will be more meaningful. Perhaps I will buy that 1 day ticket, and go from 8 AM to Midnight. But it will be for hundreds less than if I had bought a Magic Key pass, so Disney has lost someone who was willing to drop hundreds of dollars to visit and spend more money over the course of a year, and I'm sure that I'm not alone.

But Disney will be fine. I'll be the one missing out, but such is life.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
So since everyone’s kids like WEBSLINGERS are we saying that it and pretty much everything else Chapek has touched are not objectively much worse thematic experiences compared it to the likes of POTC, HM, Splash etc or are we just old and out of touch? Little of both? If that’s not a fair comparison, how about Star Tours?

Avengers Campus or New Orleans Square? It’s a toss up for me.

I think people are saying that some things are just more appealing to others, be it age or interest. Not everyone has to love every single ride or land in the place. Think what was there before AC. Not exactly highly immersed family dark rides in ABL either, but for kids who grew up on those rides and parents who had a place for young kids to enjoy, it was still a great area even if its not HM or Splash. In fact many people was defending that place to stay. In about 10 years time, people will be defending AC to stay just like they would NOS because it's not just the detail that makes people love a place, it's the nostalgia from it.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I think people are saying that some things are just more appealing to others, be it age or interest. Not everyone has to love every single ride or land in the place. Think what was there before AC. Not exactly highly immersed family dark rides in ABL either, but for kids who grew up on those rides and parents who had a place for young kids to enjoy, it was still a great area even if its not HM or Splash. In fact many people was defending that place to stay. In about 10 years time, people will be defending AC to stay just like they would NOS because it's not just the detail that makes people love a place, it's the nostalgia from it.

Nostalgia is a thing for sure. But again, if the future is just more Pixar Piers, WEBSLINGERS and avengers campuses our kids won’t be on Disneyland forums talking about the place all day. Unless of course they don’t get rid of all the classic stuff then maybe
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
Nostalgia is a thing for sure. But again, if the future is just more Pixar Piers, WEBSLINGERS and avengers campuses our kids won’t be on Disneyland forums talking about the place all day. Unless of course they don’t get rid of all the classic stuff then maybe
Didn't they just build Galaxy's Edge not two years ago? One of the most immersive and biggest lands in the entire resort? No offense but its always the same conversation. My guess is for the next 50 years, they will build high quality rides and lands at certain times and low quality things in others, just depending on what the situation or time call for like the last 65 years. It will never be one or the other. It's how we went from Rt 66 to CL in DCA.
 

SplashGhost

Well-Known Member
Didn't they just build Galaxy's Edge not two years ago? One of the most immersive and biggest lands in the entire resort? No offense but its always the same conversation. My guess is for the next 50 years, they will build high quality rides and lands at certain times and low quality things in others, just depending on what the situation or time call for like the last 65 years. It will never be one or the other. It's how we went from Rt 66 to CL in DCA.

The only reason Galaxy's Edge turned out as good as it did was because it was approved before Chapek. Chapek still managed to severely cut down the land's offerings though with his budget cuts.

I also think that some people in Imagineering just can't write a decent script to save their lives and that isn't a budget thing. So regardless of budget, I expect much poorer script quality for attractions going forward. I mean whoever is writing and approving the scripts thinks dialogue like "Ten for a Hen" and "Jack Jack Jack Jack Jack Jack" are passable enough to be in finished versions of attractions. It doesn't cost more money to write better scripts, so there is definitely a creative rot in Imagineering.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Just did some internal math of what would be a value to me...

I am not a California resident but live a reasonable drive distance to the parks. I'd pay $1,250 up front for a Magic Key Park Hopping for 12 Days throughout the Year (even OK with the Christmas Two Week Blackout) that combines the traditional discounts + MaxPass Benefits.

I'd see good value in that even if it required me to still make reservations in advance.

As out of state APs I’ve been doing the math also, with our Signature APs we’d do one 3 day weekend a month, Friday and Sundays were travel days though so only half days in the park, technically 36 days but really 24 full days a year in the park for roughly $1400.

If passes are now tied to a set number of visits we’ll need a 36 day pass to get the same value as before… if the 36 day comes in around $1500 DL will still get our vacation dollars, if not they’ll get one or two weekends a year at $350 a pop for 3 day tickets.

I find it difficult going open to close… But being able to pop in every couple of weekends for a half day, is something I enjoyed being able to do with an Annual Pass. .

DL APs made for a relaxing weekend… we’d sleep in some days, take a lot of afternoon swim breaks, spend (too many) afternoons sipping drinks at Trader Sams or poolside at GC, do the character breakfasts at DL hotel and GC… if my park days are now limited that time becomes more valuable and the hotel and DTD time will lose out, the relaxation part also gets lost.

DL has always been our easy, plan free, hassle free weekend getaway… I’m hoping that after tomorrow it still is but I’m not optimistic.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
The only reason Galaxy's Edge turned out as good as it did was because it was approved before Chapek. Chapek still managed to severely cut down the land's offerings though with his budget cuts.

I also think that some people in Imagineering just can't write a decent script to save their lives and that isn't a budget thing. So regardless of budget, I expect much poorer script quality for attractions going forward. I mean whoever is writing and approving the scripts thinks dialogue like "Ten for a Hen" and "Jack Jack Jack Jack Jack Jack" are passable enough to be in finished versions of attractions. It doesn't cost more money to write better scripts, so there is definitely a creative rot in Imagineering.

This is bringing me back to the year 2000 when all the talk was how Paul Pressler and his cheapness was going to bring down the parks for the next 30 years. And yes, he did some damage, DCA 1.0 being the biggest culprit. He also got fired a few years later when people were not showing up to said park. In other words, these things eventually work themselves out. I don't really view Chapek as kind of ultra-villain he gets on these boards, but my guess is he will try to cut costs when he can and when he goes too far and less people go, he'll be out of a job too. It's always been ebb and flow with these things. We'll see, but this conversation has been going on for over 20 years now lol. I still remember when DAK added the cheap spinner rides in Dinoland USA. I think I was on Laughingplace at the time and people hailed it as the end of Animal Kingdom. From that point on, that park was never going to get any major attractions again. It was just going to a big zoo with cheap spinners and carnival rides. Paul Pressler has struck again!!! Now that park has Pandora, the second most expensive land in any Disney park. We know what is currently the first. Ebb and flow!

On the message board Disney is ready to go SUPER CHEAP from this point forward and call it day from then on! Unfortunately for them, people aren't automatons no matter how much we love it and they do actually have competition, so they still have to keep up or people will notice and start going less. If Chapek wants to stay CEO, I think he knows he can't just put in spinners and shoot em up rides for the next 20 years. I think they all learned that lesson by now.

As far as the script thing, I can't speak on that at all.
 
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Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
In other words, these things eventually work themselves out.

Well said… if the new AP program is horrible it’ll be replaced, if the new management team is horrible they’ll eventually be replaced, if Disney is known for one thing it’s making money… they won’t let bad policies stop that. It may take a few years but Disneys board isn’t going to sit by and watch Chapek undo 20 years of growth and a decade of record revenues if his changes hurt the bottom line.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
Well said… if the new AP program is horrible it’ll be replaced, if the new management team is horrible they’ll eventually be replaced, if Disney is known for one thing it’s making money… they won’t let bad policies stop that. It may take a few years but Disneys board isn’t going to sit by and watch Chapek undo 20 years of growth and a decade of record revenues if his changes hurt the bottom line.

Exactly! Yes Disney is more reactive than proactive at times, but they ARE reactive. It's why they went from DCA 1.0 to 2.0. In fact HKDL and WDSP are all working on their 2.0 versions right now as well. They make plenty of mistakes, miscalculate at times, but when they do, they always go out their way to try and correct them. Because they know with the ridiculous prices they charge, the second people aren't happy, they will vote with their wallets as they have done many times. And Disney has nearly always got them back by improving the guest experience and willing to fire anyone when their policies hinders that experience to the point it hurts the bottom line. Literally how Eisner eventually lost his job, even if it happened a few years too late. That's ALL you can ask for with any company.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Well said… if the new AP program is horrible it’ll be replaced

There's really no such thing as a good or bad AP program. It's all on a sliding scale really.

If admissions are heavily discounted, the park becomes too crowded. If the admission price is increased, the attendance goes down. If the admissions are heavily discounted, the park has less money to spend on attractions and entertainment. If the park's admission price is increased, they have to spend more on attractions to justify the value.

The people that tend to be the most upset about these changes are the ones that want to have all three: big new attractions, no crowds, and super cheap admission. They don't realize it's a give-and-take scenario.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
Is it possible "we" are not the generation they are aiming for?
I would say certain attractions might not appeal to every generation but I think we, being more hardcore fans, have an affinity for things like Pirates and Mansion and we will always be somewhat more critical of rides like Spidey. Even though IP driven, they can still make highly immersive family attraction like Racers or Rise though.
 

SoCalDisneyLover

Well-Known Member
The people that tend to be the most upset about these changes are the ones that want to have all three: big new attractions, no crowds, and super cheap admission. They don't realize it's a give-and-take scenario.
The thing is, they Always increase the prices when there is a big new attraction. People seldom complain. Nobody complained at the jump in AP prices when Galaxy's Edge opened, because there was reason behind the increase.

With Reservations, Disney has complete control over crowds. They can adjust the # of available reservations on a day by day basis. They're simply trying to cut the # trying for reservations, rather than manipulating attendance themselves.

And there is nothing "super cheap" about admission to Disneyland. It and WDW are far and away the most expensive theme parks in the country. There is nothing "cheap" about buying a pass each year for $650 - $1,450. Multiply that by a family of 4, and you're talking about a couple of rent/mortgage payments.

People are more reasonable in dealing with these items than you might think. But this program is nothing like that, and goes too far, too fast. They are going from a top pass for roughly $1,400, that allowed admission 365 days a year, to a $3,000 pass that allows 48 admissions. And apparently, it's not simply 48 admissions for the year, it's going to be 4/month, and if you miss any along the way, you can't carry them over.

This is a money grab, pure and simple. Disney could have done a simpler program, like perhaps a # of reservations based Flex Pass, that would allow Disney to adjust each day's reservation availability, while still allowing people to visit more than a maximum # of times per month. It leaves me completely lost on why they instituted a Flex Pass in 2019, if they were planning on getting rid of the program over the short term. The Flex pass offered a great deal of "flexibility," but it also imposed no cap on # of visits you could have. If you wanted to come every day Monday-Thursday during January & February, the slowest months, you could.

There are 2 ways to achieve a certain $ of Sales. The Six Flags route of more passes at a lower price, or Disney's new practice of fewer passes at a higher price. This is why Disney probably will come out even. There are enough Disney addicts, who will pay the increased price, even though they're getting significantly less benefit than before. Leaving aside the crowdedness of the park, which is obviously a benefit. I guess it puts more of a premium on each individual visit, since you will be restricted on the # of visits you can have.

Coming full circle, the most striking example IMO, is that the top pass was $1,450 in 2020, and allowed one to visit every single day if they wanted. The top pass now, is supposedly $3,000, but caps # of visits at 48. That says money grab to me. But for Disney, even if they get half of those who had the Signature, they make the same amount of money.

If I had to guess, I'd say Disney will lose 40-50% of those who had AP's. If that was their goal, I feel they've achieved it with this new program.
 

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