News Disneyland cancels Annual Pass program

[mickEblu]

I think another effect will be no more free fast passes. Everything will move to the Max Pass model.

I agree. Would this be good or bad for guest experience though? If people used it just for special trips then I can see it being a good thing. But if the end result is that all APs are conditioned to pay for MaxPass on every trip then we ll just have the same FP system we have now except we re paying for it. With that said, depending on what the new program looks like, there will be more “special trips” or day trips as opposed to trips where one is dropping by for a few hours to to eat dessert and watch fireworks. I never lived close enough to be to do the latter but I imagine I would have done it if I did. People won’t waste a a reservation on that kind of a trip.

The effect this can have on the limited merch “events” is interesting. People may not want to waste one of their precious reservations for a pin. I wonder how Disney works around that? Or do they just assume that these people will automatically buy the most expensive pass available to ensure they can buy all the limited merch. I wonder what the new “Signature +” pass will look like.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Your descriptions of APs sound more like disneyworld than Disneyland. In wdw - beyond vacation club - they really are fillers...in California it’s a much larger chunk of core audience.

But as Dylan sings: “the times...they are a changin’”

I thought about that as I wrote it. I wonder (actually, I'd bet) that there are enough people in the S. CA area that they could sell tickets everyday and fill up the park. Basically, that APer community in S. CA will likely still go, but just not as often, but love DL so much that they'll pay the gate price. This thins out the crowds. It gets everyone paying every time. Nothing is perceived as on the shelf for "free" to the Bobs.

I'm not part of that community. This is, of course, me making an educated guess. If you were a DL APer, the lack of APs in the future probably will slow down your visits, but I bet you'll still go.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I think a lot of you are forgetting that there are over a million DLR passholders; the vast majority who are local. What happens when DLR opens with the ability to only allow 15,000 guests in at once (including day guests)? You'd be effectively giving every single AP roughly 1-3 days to access the park for the entire year.

The program had to go, for now.

 

[drizgirl]

I think a lot of you are forgetting that there are over a million DLR passholders; the vast majority who are local. What happens when DLR opens with the ability to only allow 15,000 guests in at once (including day guests)? You'd be effectively giving every single AP roughly 1-3 days to access the park for the entire year.

The program had to go, for now.

They really had no choice.

Additionally, I assume they will have occupancy limits when they open again. They're going to want to maximize what they can get per guest per day with whatever capacity is available to them. This ain't Florida we're talking about.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

They really had no choice.

Additionally, I assume they will have occupancy limits when they open again. They're going to want to maximize what they can get per guest per day with whatever capacity is available to them. This ain't Florida we're talking about.

Right. Florida has a lot more going for it in regards to the AP program:

• more parks (2 vs 4)
• larger parks (85,000 capacity vs ~350,000)
• more flexible capacity limits (all self imposed)
• far less local APs

 

[drizgirl]

Right. Florida has a lot more going for it in regards to the AP program:

• more parks (2 vs 4)
• larger parks (85,000 capacity vs ~350,000)
• more flexible capacity limits (all self imposed)
• far less local APs

And a Governor a lot more willing to let Disney push the envelope on numbers.

 

[flynnibus]

True but it wasn’t the park it is today.

We were talking about possible DCA only APs. Day tickets and park hoppers to go to both parks would still be available in this hypothetical scenario.

But he was referencing the old APs - that was back when DCA opened. There hasn't been any DCA-only admission media in a long long time.

 

[mickEblu]

But he was referencing the old APs - that was back when DCA opened. There hasn't been any DCA-only admission media in a long long time.

No there was a DCA only pass they were selling at Costco like 4 years ago

 

[Disstevefan1]

I don’t doubt that. My only question is in this “less” will we be seeing lower crowds? I’m guessing in the short term yes but not necessarily because of the programs but because of the limited capacity due to COVID. With that said, if they are Penny pinching and staffing accordingly, will it feel like less people? Especially with one way traffic zones, inconvenient mobile ordering, social distancing and lower capacity on attractions. Using WDW as an example, it seems that when they moved up from 25% to 35% is when the parks stopped feeling like their were low crowds. And the parks are bigger over there.

Then when and if something similar to the old annual pass program does come back in a couple years capacity will be back to normal and we will probably all be used to paying more for less.

I’m hoping for some silver lining where the parks feel like the good old days, even if we may be paying more and receiving less perks. If the parks feel pleasant, that’s a major perk for me. I’d have to think they want to change the perception of their parks and will try to limit crowds from getting too out of control in case of a future pandemic, for liability reasons and too play nice with Sacramento. Yet, they have already seen just how much Disneyland can rake in and they will want to see those same numbers somehow. So if they re not willing to take a hit, then the guest experience does. Things like “free” parking going away, magical express at WDW, no entertainment/ streetmosphere etc..

We can’t go by what is happening now in the middle of the pandemic.

My concern is what the annual pass, or “membership” programs will look like well past the COVID days for both DLR and WDW..

I have a bad feeling the annual pass that had no blackouts and does not require a park reservation is gone for good and these new programs will cost more and will obviously provide less access..

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I thought about that as I wrote it. I wonder (actually, I'd bet) that there are enough people in the S. CA area that they could sell tickets everyday and fill up the park. Basically, that APer community in S. CA will likely still go, but just not as often, but love DL so much that they'll pay the gate price. This thins out the crowds. It gets everyone paying every time. Nothing is perceived as on the shelf for "free" to the Bobs.

I'm not part of that community. This is, of course, me making an educated guess. If you were a DL APer, the lack of APs in the future probably will slow down your visits, but I bet you'll still go.

I wouldn’t go to Disneyland without an AP if I lived in California. That is the fundamental point of an AP program. It wasn’t broke and they can’t fix it. But I don’t think the management is particularly good in strategic planning either.

I’ll tell you that I got way more texts yesterday from my hard traveling “core” of contacts that immediately started getting the torches and pitchforks ready if they can wdw passes.

None of us have any desire to “pay as you go”...the park reinvestment has been so mangled/mismanaged that they parks are not measurably much better than 20 years ago to justify costs already...they also have aging hotels and questionable decisions there as well.

I never thought there was a “breaking point”...but there likely is.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No there was a DCA only pass they were selling at Costco like 4 years ago

Those are gone forever...they have no interest in any type of discount partnerships anymore...or selling higher numbers of passes

 

[el_super]

I think another effect will be no more free fast passes. Everything will move to the Max Pass model.

That's an interesting idea, but I don't know if they would try it. The point of charging for MaxPass was that there wouldn't be enough capacity for everyone to use it. Theoretically, capacity won't be an issue going forward. Why pay $20 for MaxPass if the park capacity is limited to 25%?

Maybe MaxPass will become free ... at least for awhile.

I'm not part of that community. This is, of course, me making an educated guess. If you were a DL APer, the lack of APs in the future probably will slow down your visits, but I bet you'll still go.

You're not too far off in your assessment. People living here still love Disneyland and will pay to go. It's just a matter of how much they would be willing to pay to ride attractions they've seen dozens of times already. That's part of the push and pull of the AP program here: they have to discount local admissions, because the locals go all the time and don't want to pay full price to see the same rides over and over again.

 

[Snoballego]

Too many “poors?” Who is “the rest of us?”

Disneyland was not created to be an exclusive experience for the wealthy and rich and it should never be like that. I guarantee you the commoners will still be making appearances in the park.

Except for Club 33. That is reserved for the wealthy, rich, and people of privilege and others cannot come inside to even look around (I have never been inside either). Not agreeing with the "poor" comment but there is some bit of precedent on Disney offering exclusivity of their experiences through capitalism.

If Disney was really smart, they would test for a year that only you need to buy some level of a Disney Vacation Club membership with a minimum of 100 banked points on January 1 of each year per household for existing DVC members or new members must be required to buy at least 200 banked points ($30k+ investment) to be able to buy an annual signature+ pass at $3k each.

I bet people would do it without hesitation. Sign-up for the time share and change their entire leisure budget model because they are so passionate about Disney - including the V-Loggers and Gangs - make everyone sign away and finance a timeshare and a multi-year commitment.

I'll be buying whatever other multi-day packages that they offer and figure it out from there.

 

[mickEblu]

Those are gone forever...they have no interest in any type of discount partnerships anymore...or selling higher numbers of passes

I could see them offering a DCA only “AP” / flex pass to provide a cheaper option while driving attendance to DCA. Of course, I question if there is enough demand for that

 

[drizgirl]

I could see them offering a DCA only “AP” / flex pass to provide a cheaper option while driving attendance to DCA. Of course, I question if there is enough demand for that

I can see them needing to do this. I can't imagine hopping will be offered for a while. Getting people to pay as much for DCA as DL might be a little tricky. I bet they wish more than ever that they had found a way to get Galaxy's Edge into that park instead.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I can see them needing to do this. I can't imagine hopping will be offered for a while. Getting people to pay as much for DCA as DL might be a little tricky. I bet they wish more than ever that they had found a way to get Galaxy's Edge into that park instead.

...Star Wars land?

It was rather light when we were there.

I would think the marvel campus is at least as big of a draw in the current climate

 

[Lil Copter Cap]

This may be obvious, but the trends we are seeing with the removal of offerings tends to be categorized as "not pandemic proof" -- both physically and fiscally. The changes being made (and any replacements) will likely ensure a more pandemic proof approach. At least that's how the company will likely spin it.

With changes coming to Disneyland for the AP program, I am sure there may be minor restructuring in terms of WDW's program, however, I can't see them wiping out the program in its current form when the park isn't hitting their limited capacity numbers.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I thought about that as I wrote it. I wonder (actually, I'd bet) that there are enough people in the S. CA area that they could sell tickets everyday and fill up the park. Basically, that APer community in S. CA will likely still go, but just not as often, but love DL so much that they'll pay the gate price. This thins out the crowds. It gets everyone paying every time.

My friends and I have APs and our average daily spending is probably $100 per person... between coffees, breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, and merch it’s almost impossible to spend less than $100 at Disneyland. Half our trips we’ll probably spend $75 each on food and drinks on dinner alone at Lamplight or in the Grand Californian.

Disney may make more money in ticket sales but thinning the crowd also means lost revenue on food, drink, and merch sales.

I wouldn’t go to Disneyland without an AP if I lived in California. That is the fundamental point of an AP program. It wasn’t broke and they can’t fix it. But I don’t think the management is particularly good in strategic planning either.

I’ll tell you that I got way more texts yesterday from my hard traveling “core” of contacts that immediately started getting the torches and pitchforks ready if they can wdw passes.

None of us have any desire to “pay as you go”...the park reinvestment has been so mangled/mismanaged that they parks are not measurably much better than 20 years ago to justify costs already...they also have aging hotels and questionable decisions there as well.

I never thought there was a “breaking point”...but there likely is.

I’ve had a DL AP for almost a decade and my monthly trips would probably become once or twice a year without an AP.

That one weekend a month probably equals $300 in food, drink, and merch spending direct to Disney from me and another $300 from my gf.

So instead of getting $2800 for 2 APs and another $7200 in misc sales they’d get $1200 for four 3 day passes and $2000 in sales, (we’d probably splurge more and spend $500 each per weekend).

That’s a $6800 annual LOSS on 2 people. Multiply that to varying degrees times hundred of thousands of APs and it’s clear to see that APs will be back in some form.

Unless the parks are running at capacity and turning away paying day guests there is absolutely no incentive for Disney to eliminate the AP program.

Not to mention the affects it would have on surrounding businesses, as non LA AP holders we probably spend $4000 a year on hotel rooms, if we cut out 10 visits that would be another $3500 in lost revenue to the area. This could have disastrous affects on Anaheim.

 

[flynnibus]

No there was a DCA only pass they were selling at Costco like 4 years ago

yeah 2016 - tho I don't know if it ever made it past that first year offer...

 

[Brer Oswald]

...Star Wars land?

It was rather light when we were there.

I would think the marvel campus is at least as big of a draw in the current climate

Speaking of which, I’m really shocked at the lack of ambition in that project. I would’ve thought they would make a bigger deal of it than Star Wars, given the insane popularity of the MCU, and the restrictions in Florida.