News Disneyland cancels Annual Pass program

[brianstl]

View attachment 526548

This $600 pass is better than the flex pass I had last year in some ways. Looks like there are a few more blackouts but you get 6 reservations at one time instead of 2. You also get a few anytime reservations. What remains to be seen is how hard it will be to snag a reservation. When I had a flex pass it was the only one. If other people can book 60, 90 and 120 days out will any weekends be left for folks who can only book 30 days out? I’m not sure how they’ll manage this but it’ll be interesting. If someone who can book 30 days out try’s to get a reservation 3 or 4 times in a row for different dates and fails then what even would be the point of buying that pass? For this system to work you have to have a “reasonable” chance of getting a reservation.

@CastAStone brought this up on a different site and I happened to agree with him that the survey is a Discrete Choice test. I wouldn't count on what is presented as being what they actually offer to the public. They are just trying to gather information that let's them know what items people value at different price points.

I would be surprised if any of the actual tiers look really similar to what is in the surveys. I would almost guarantee a some form of rewards program will be attached to every tier because a well run rewards program has minimal actual cost to the people running it while it encourages spending that members of the program wouldn't otherwise partake in while the participant feels like they are getting something extra. It is why every casino operator has a rewards program. They just want to see the value passholders place on a rewards program and when they roll it out to all levels, the survey takers will think they are getting some great bonus to their membership.

 

[mickEblu]

@CastAStone brought this up on a different site and I happened to agree with him that the survey is a Discrete Choice test. I wouldn't count on what is presented as being what they actually offer to the public. They are just trying to gather information that let's them know what items people value at different price points.

I would be surprised if any of the actual tiers look really similar to what is in the surveys. I would almost guarantee a some form of rewards program will be attached to every tier because a well run rewards program has minimal actual cost to the people running it while it encourages spending that members of the program wouldn't otherwise partake in while the participant feels like they are getting something extra. It is why every casino operator has a rewards program. They just want to see the value passholders place on a rewards program and when they roll it out to all levels, the survey takers will think they are getting some great bonus to their membership.

Makes sense because if you look closely when comparing the passes and different price points they re placing a “disproportionate” amount of value on a given feature of that particular pass so they can really hone in on what people want. With that said, I still think we re going to see different tiers of Flex pass APs. Maybe not exactly as we see them in the survey but that’s in essence what they will be. Of course I’m referring to what passes will be offered when capacity goes back to normal.

If I understand what you re saying, you think they are trying to understand what guests value so that they can use them to price their new membership program based on the different perks people prioritize. Could be but a reservation based AP system seems to be the best to guarantee revenue while controlling capacity and making sure guest satisfaction stays high. I think they would lose a lot of APs with a membership program. Of course that’s based on my idea of what a membership program is and not what they may present. I think the membership program is specifically being created for the short term until capacity goes back to normal. Maybe they re accomplishing both things with this survey. They re getting the data they need for the short term membership program and the longer term flex AP program.

 

[Sailor310]

I would love free (or even discounted) parking on the cheapest pass. Call me cheap, but that extra $25 would make me think twice about just showing up for an afternoon in the past.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Two words: dedicated entrance.

Leave it to Disney to give us something no one asked for or ever thought they'd need or want.

What's next, an Express AP lane for the parking structure? In all honesty though, for a while I've thought they should definitely do away with FP queue and replace it with an AP queue, but one that moves at the opposite rate of the Standby.

It’s so stupid. “I was on the fence about buying the new $1400 AP that requires park reservations, has blackouts, a slight discount on parking but when I saw I had a dedicated entrance, I was hooked”

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I would love free (or even discounted) parking on the cheapest pass. Call me cheap, but that extra $25 would make me think twice about just showing up for an afternoon in the past.

I think parking may be an easy way to control crowds, get rid of free parking for all APs (maybe make it a discounted $10) and rather than coming multiple times a week for an hour or two they’ll only come when they are spending the day.

That could hurt restaurant and Downtown Disney foot traffic though so it probably won’t happen.

 

[CastAStone]

Makes sense because if you look closely when comparing the passes and different price points they re placing a “disproportionate” amount of value on a given feature of that particular pass so they can really hone in on what people want. With that said, I still think we re going to see different tiers of Flex pass APs. Maybe not exactly as we see them in the survey but that’s in essence what they will be. Of course I’m referring to what passes will be offered when capacity goes back to normal.

If I understand what you re saying, you think they are trying to understand what guests value so that they can use them to price their new membership program based on the different perks people prioritize. Could be but a reservation based AP system seems to be the best to guarantee revenue while controlling capacity and making sure guest satisfaction stays high. I think they would lose a lot of APs with a membership program. Of course that’s based on my idea of what a membership program is and not what they may present. I think the membership program is specifically being created for the short term until capacity goes back to normal. Maybe they re accomplishing both things with this survey. They re getting the data they need for the short term membership program and the longer term flex AP program.

The way discrete choice works is that a computer randomly generates a combination of options for you as you take the test. Do that enough times with enough people and it becomes clear what things move the needle and what are nice to haves.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think parking may be an easy way to control crowds, get rid of free parking for all APs (maybe make it a discounted $10) and rather than coming multiple times a week for an hour or two they’ll only come when they are spending the day.

That could hurt restaurant and Downtown Disney foot traffic though so it probably won’t happen.

I think it will do the opposite for Downtown Disney. The former AP holder who is now priced out of Disneyland, will go to Downtown Disney to get their Disney fix.

I always thought Disney Springs was so mobbed for the same reason; families in the area who did not want to spend the big bucks to go into the park can get a little Disney with a visit to Disney Springs.

As of this post, parking at Disney springs is still free. I am absolutely sure that will change too...

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

At this point (saying this as someone who hasn't seen any particularly appealing option), it would be better if they simply did it a la carte / create your own. They assign a value to each thing and then you build it as you want it.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

Probably need to ask Disney themselves.. but for those of us who put a down payment on an AP just a few months before they closed.. is that pretty much lost money?

 

[Disstevefan1]

If I was designing an option it would be this for a resident annual:
proof of residence
$999 yearly
A max of 15 , park hopper, anytime visits per year; no blackouts, no reservations needed.
Free parking
20% discount on food and merch.

 

[Tamandua]

I miss the days when Disney appreciated their passholders instead of trying to figure out the exact amount of frustration it takes to get rid of just enough of them.

 

[flutas]

Probably need to ask Disney themselves.. but for those of us who put a down payment on an AP just a few months before they closed.. is that pretty much lost money?

With the program cancellation they are refunding for it.

You can get more details on their website https://disneyland.disney.go.com/travel-information/#annual-passports

 

[TP2000]

Company News

Follow the hottest stocks that are making the biggest moves.

www.investopedia.com

Investopedia writer pokes an already angry bear...

"These decisions are driven by analyses showing pass holders to be among the least profitable visitors to these theme parks, combined with state-mandated restrictions on attendance in response to COVID-19."

"The holders of annual passes to the aforementioned Disney theme parks are mainly local residents who tend to spend significantly less on food and merchandise than visitors from afar. Additionally, these pass holders are, as a result of living nearby, highly unlikely to book rooms at the Disney-operated hotels associated with these parks. Moreover, despite rapid escalations in the prices of passes over the years, the effective entrance fee revenue per visit from pass holders often works out to be significantly less than the daily or multi-day fees paid by other visitors."

"Meanwhile, especially at the California parks, which have an estimated 1 million pass holders, pass holders add to overcrowding, which diminishes the experience for the more profitable guests. As a result, a number of these preferred visitors become less enthusiastic about returning in the future."

This is it.

This is all there is to it. It's really as simple as this.

Why it took Covid for TDA to grow a backbone, in addition to some male anatomy, is a whole other story. But at least TDA finally grew up and did it. Bravo!

 

[Sailor310]

Thanks for the article TP. There was another on that page:

Investors in the Walt Disney Company's (DIS) initial public offering (IPO) who held onto their investments would be very happy with their returns. If you had invested $1,000 in Disney's IPO on November 12, 1957, not including dividend reinvestment, your investment would be worth $4.78 million as of December 23, 2020. This represents a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of over 14%.

 

[TP2000]

Thanks for the article TP. There was another on that page:

Investors in the Walt Disney Company's (DIS) initial public offering (IPO) who held onto their investments would be very happy with their returns. If you had invested $1,000 in Disney's IPO on November 12, 1957, not including dividend reinvestment, your investment would be worth $4.78 million as of December 23, 2020. This represents a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of over 14%.

Fabulous!

That's American Free Enterprise and beautiful Capitalism on full display.

Personal risk, with the potential for a big payoff if the free market responds to the idea. I love it!

 

[Th3 DUd3]

The only pass that matters is the one with parking. Always thought of my AP as a fee for parking and got a free ticket. I though was extremely fortunate to visit enough for that to work. I just think a lot of people paid their pass twice. Once in the ticket and the other in Parking.

Kind of feel the Disney FOMO monkey is off my back now and can use all the funds I would pour into the parks for more personal & meaningful things. Will be curious when he will start poking me to remind me that its there when Disneyland eventually reopens.

 

[Tamandua]

The only pass that matters is the one with parking. Always thought of my AP as a fee for parking and got a free ticket. I though was extremely fortunate to visit enough for that to work. I just think a lot of people paid their pass twice. Once in the ticket and the other in Parking.

Kind of feel the Disney FOMO monkey is off my back now and can use all the funds I would pour into the parks for more personal & meaningful things. Will be curious when he will start poking me to remind me that its there when Disneyland eventually reopens.

The parking is the biggest thing for me too. If I'm going to buy a pass, then I'm going to go a lot, and if I'm going to go a lot, I'm not going to pay $25 for parking each time. I'm also irritated that I let them hold onto my money for about a year just so they could cancel the 10+ months left I had on my pass just so they can try to sell me something worse for a lot more. Maybe I'll change my mind later, but what I'm seeing right now makes me feel like I can wait a while before going back. I definitely don't need it enough to agree to these terms.

 

[Tamandua]

Company News

Follow the hottest stocks that are making the biggest moves.

www.investopedia.com

Investopedia writer pokes an already angry bear...

"These decisions are driven by analyses showing pass holders to be among the least profitable visitors to these theme parks, combined with state-mandated restrictions on attendance in response to COVID-19."

"The holders of annual passes to the aforementioned Disney theme parks are mainly local residents who tend to spend significantly less on food and merchandise than visitors from afar. Additionally, these pass holders are, as a result of living nearby, highly unlikely to book rooms at the Disney-operated hotels associated with these parks. Moreover, despite rapid escalations in the prices of passes over the years, the effective entrance fee revenue per visit from pass holders often works out to be significantly less than the daily or multi-day fees paid by other visitors."

"Meanwhile, especially at the California parks, which have an estimated 1 million pass holders, pass holders add to overcrowding, which diminishes the experience for the more profitable guests. As a result, a number of these preferred visitors become less enthusiastic about returning in the future."

My family was spending a lot more on food and merchandise each visit than what our daily admission cost was after the refunds. I think they're going to find that the APs they lose may very well be the ones who spent more while there. The cheaper crowd may pay more up front knowing that they can be thrifty when they go. The bigger daily spenders may not want to buy into such an expensive pass system knowing what they will be spending each visit. Just a thought given our experience.

 

[drizgirl]

The parking is the biggest thing for me too. If I'm going to buy a pass, then I'm going to go a lot, and if I'm going to go a lot, I'm not going to pay $25 for parking each time. I'm also irritated that I let them hold onto my money for about a year just so they could cancel the 10+ months left I had on my pass just so they can try to sell me something worse for a lot more. Maybe I'll change my mind later, but what I'm seeing right now makes me feel like I can wait a while before going back. I definitely don't need it enough to agree to these terms.

I understand that. But nobody knew 10 months ago how this would play out. They're honoring APs in Florida and I think would have loved to do the same in CA. Maybe you should take it up with Governor Newsome.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The only pass that matters is the one with parking. Always thought of my AP as a fee for parking and got a free ticket. I though was extremely fortunate to visit enough for that to work. I just think a lot of people paid their pass twice. Once in the ticket and the other in Parking.

Kind of feel the Disney FOMO monkey is off my back now and can use all the funds I would pour into the parks for more personal & meaningful things. Will be curious when he will start poking me to remind me that its there when Disneyland eventually reopens.

I (was) a WDW AP for over 13 years. I am not sure what will happen to WDW APs going forward, but I suspect it will go through a DLR AP type of overhaul.

I totally agree, the most important attribute of the AP to me is free parking. If that is a thing of the past, I would probably not be purchasing the three APs I usually did before.

Let’s see what happens after the dust settles and we are really past COVID. It will be interesting to watch.