Glad I left this thread it has run its course.
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Disney World unfairly slammed for wages.
- Thread starter Mr. Morrow
- Start date
Brian Noble
Well-Known Member
This time I really mean it! I'm not coming back! Honest and for true!
You and Favre.
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
EaglesfanNJ
Active Member
:ROFLOL: Wow, well this was certainly popcorn-worthy! Seriously, did I really see a picture of the twin towers on a Disney discussion board?? Classy, very classy.
In an effort to get back to the basic point by Mr. Morrow and get this thread back on track, I'm still confused by one simple thing :shrug:......
The point of this article was to list the lowest paying jobs in America. Disney fell into that category. So if it's true, how does the title to this thread even ring true? In other words, how can it be "unfairly slammed"? You're beloved Disney falls into this category, it's called get over it.
In an effort to get back to the basic point by Mr. Morrow and get this thread back on track, I'm still confused by one simple thing :shrug:......
The point of this article was to list the lowest paying jobs in America. Disney fell into that category. So if it's true, how does the title to this thread even ring true? In other words, how can it be "unfairly slammed"? You're beloved Disney falls into this category, it's called get over it.
The way it was worded I thought was unfair, where CM are low pais and don't receive any training.
"These employees, who typically get on-the-job training and are expected to have good customer service skills"
To me this implies Disney isn't paying much and trowing people on the job without training.
Well you know what, it's been very pleasant around here recently. The forum works so much better when everyone gets a chance to chat about things without a select few monopolizing every thread and imparting a jaded and distorted view of everything.
To be honest, I'm pretty sick of hearing you constantly complaining about WDWMAGIC each time you honor us by returning to post. Why don't you just stay away? Or isn't your little fan club giving you enough attention elsewhere?
Oh and also, your CAPITALIZATION of certain words - not clever or funny.
EaglesfanNJ
Active Member
Ok, fair enough and I agree with you then on one point... That point being that the part of the article that says "they typically get on the job training" is unfair. Now, i've never worked at Disney but from reading and hearing things on these boards, it sounds like this is far from the truth.
I will only disagree with you about the part i bolded being unfair. The article did not "imply" anything. The article flat out said that Disney does not pay much, and it's the truth.
EaglesfanNJ
Active Member
:sohappy:
The way I look at it is for what the job is it is not worth much more to start out. I used to be a CM and have no problem with them making more but my point is you can only pay certain jobe so much.
I'll apologize for the use of the picture (and thank you Steve for taking it down). But at the same token in that thread drift it was claimed that there were no casualties here in the U.S. before the war in Afghanistan started, and that's simply not the case. Again, I'll apologize for the picture and the thread drift, but I won't let those lost be shunted aside by another.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Pumbas, can we make out?
To try and bring this back on topic. Wages at WDW (since this is what this website is about, right?) are low, because that is what the market will support. However, it doesn't mean that Disney is getting the best return on investment by paying the bare minimum.
With my very rudimentary knowledge of the structure of WDW based on my time as a cast member (so my knowledge is 10 years old and limited to one section of the resort), Disney seems like it may benefit from a wholesale restructuring from top to bottom. It shouldn't be to get rid of evil management or prop up the wages of cherubic CMs, but to build flexibility and effeciencies that are lacking. Consolidate positions and expand other.
Just within Attractions alone there is a huge disparity in responsibility. Going back to the Dumbo arguement, lets compare it to a driver at Kilimanjaro. While safety is the top concern for each, I would argue that the safari driver has many more variables to deal with than a FL attractions cast member. To me, more responsibility should equal more pay. In my opinion that is how wages should be evaluated.
Chezman1399
Active Member
Well, on the job training though, there is only so much they can go through with you at DU. They can't teach how to operate a ride, interact with other people, they can give you guidelines, they can't teach Parade control, they can't teach magical moments, most of the actual work done is trained on the job. What they train you to do is count money, sales techniques, and how to act in your job and that's about it. The truth is the pay is low, even compared to other theme parks and you do get most of your area specific training while on the job, that's why there are "earning my ears" add-ons to the name tags.
While that may be true, any company that requires full time hours should pay a living wage, period. You can't expect someone to work for 40+ hours a week on minimum wage. Doesn't matter what the job is.
So what? Why should I expect people to work for me if I can't pay them what they would need to survive?
If the company expects them to work 40+ hours a week, or during the day when most high-paying jobs require employees to be at work, then you need to pay a living wage. You can't expect movie theaters to hire only students who need pocket change, since they show movies during the day when they are supposed to be in school. And there are only so many retirees who are in working condition.
If you can't afford to pay a living wage to your employees, then don't hire any. If you expect people to actually work, then you need to pay them a wage that affords their rent, food and transportation. You aren't just paying for their job duties, but the time they are there. If you want someone to work for you at a time of day when "living wage" jobs require employees to be at work, then you also need to pay a living wage.
And it isn't about viability of a business most of the time, it's about profit. At a certain point, the market becomes saturated with their product and profits stabilize. Since shares are profit-driven, companies "cheat" to increase profits by cutting costs, laying off workers, etc. Technically, capitalism isn't supposed to work that way (which is why I use the term "cheating"). Once the demand is met for your product, you need to do something to create bigger demand.
If you raised wages for these "unskilled" jobs, you wouldn't need as many employees. And some companies completely overstaff what they need as it is. Paying a higher wage would attract more people willing to work different types of hours and eliminate the overstaffing. Companies would have lower turnover and and therefore not have to spend time and money on retraining.
However, we can't purely blame "living wage" on comapanies who have no control over what landlords and grocery stores are charging, but greed comes into play for those as well. This is why we need regulations, because too many people are literally left out in the cold. The market won't take care of it when all it is looking for are profits.
Pumbas, can we make out?
To try and bring this back on topic. Wages at WDW (since this is what this website is about, right?) are low, because that is what the market will support. However, it doesn't mean that Disney is getting the best return on investment by paying the bare minimum.
With my very rudimentary knowledge of the structure of WDW based on my time as a cast member (so my knowledge is 10 years old and limited to one section of the resort), Disney seems like it may benefit from a wholesale restructuring from top to bottom. It shouldn't be to get rid of evil management or prop up the wages of cherubic CMs, but to build flexibility and effeciencies that are lacking. Consolidate positions and expand other.
Just within Attractions alone there is a huge disparity in responsibility. Going back to the Dumbo arguement, lets compare it to a driver at Kilimanjaro. While safety is the top concern for each, I would argue that the safari driver has many more variables to deal with than a FL attractions cast member. To me, more responsibility should equal more pay. In my opinion that is how wages should be evaluated.
I rarely ever agree with you, but I agree with this 99.9%! (I can't COMPLETELY agree with you, people will think I'm crazy).
s8film40
Well-Known Member
The article talks about the level of pay that Disney employees and other theme park employees receive and focuses on how this affects them. This really isn't the issue though, it's not really about how much the employees are being paid but more about what type of employees they have. If Disney decided to raise the pay this would not help many of the existing employees in fact it would probably hurt many of them. Disney hired based on pay not on skills or talent, with that in mind if they decided to raise the starting pay to let's say $15 an hour, all of a sudden the people at casting would get to pick and choose who they hire, then many of the people who would normally fall back on working at Disney would have to look elsewhere. Meanwhile many of the people who were previously hired would now pale in comparison to the new employees being hired, eventually this would lead to Disney finding way to get rid of their existing employees so they could be replaced by new more carefully selected employees. So the real issue is not about whats right for employees since many (not all) of the employees working at $7.xx an hour are destined to make that anyway, but more about the quality of employees that should be working in the park.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
In a rare moment of seriousness..... ta ta tummmm...
I have a wee bit of experience in technical training both in a formal and OJT environment, I have for my sins been a capitalist slave driver since I left the serve of her Maj, so I would argue that based on my experiences in both the public and private sector...
S__________g Eggs-
1. In times of fiscal prudence training is always cut followed by marketing and development. Bean counters know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
2. Low pay has its limitations and only really works when you have a large labour pool to draw from with little alternative of employment. Yes your saving on wages but at what cost to efficiency and service delivery? Youll soon find out when other businesses start recruiting.
3. Having said that pay isnt everything, a good working environment can offset not being the best payer in the area, but you still have to offer a reasonable wage in the area/job you are employing people for
4. Pay badly have poor conditions and the only employees youll keep long term are the dregs no one else will employ.
5. Even bad training costs, probably costs more but that's another point, if your turning over staff because you pay badly thats incurring costs either in recruitment, continual training or efficiency.
6. A peed off work force isn't good for the customer experience, and they ultimately pay everyone's wages.
7. Disney relies on the good will of its staff and blind acceptance of its customers than any company Ive encountered. That will not last for ever.
I have a wee bit of experience in technical training both in a formal and OJT environment, I have for my sins been a capitalist slave driver since I left the serve of her Maj, so I would argue that based on my experiences in both the public and private sector...
S__________g Eggs-
1. In times of fiscal prudence training is always cut followed by marketing and development. Bean counters know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
2. Low pay has its limitations and only really works when you have a large labour pool to draw from with little alternative of employment. Yes your saving on wages but at what cost to efficiency and service delivery? Youll soon find out when other businesses start recruiting.
3. Having said that pay isnt everything, a good working environment can offset not being the best payer in the area, but you still have to offer a reasonable wage in the area/job you are employing people for
4. Pay badly have poor conditions and the only employees youll keep long term are the dregs no one else will employ.
5. Even bad training costs, probably costs more but that's another point, if your turning over staff because you pay badly thats incurring costs either in recruitment, continual training or efficiency.
6. A peed off work force isn't good for the customer experience, and they ultimately pay everyone's wages.
7. Disney relies on the good will of its staff and blind acceptance of its customers than any company Ive encountered. That will not last for ever.
disneydentist
New Member
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
Not so. There have been many times when I worked part time, but I put in some 40+ hour weeks because school/college was out, and I wanted to pick up more cash. The number of hours does not dictate the rate of pay deserved. The complexity of the job, the required skill sets, and the level of responsibility is what should determine your pay rate.
Because those jobs do not merit a 'survival' rate. Lets better define survival rate. To me that means a rate at which a person working a 40 hour week, can support a wife and two kids in a modest apartment, attending public school, and living a frugal but not paycheck to paycheck life. Now that amount is going to vary from area to area, but do you really think a person should make the kind of money that takes by doing something like frying hamburgers at McDonald. You may be able to support yourself by frying hamburgers, but thats not a job you should be able to support a family with. Now if you move up the McDolnalds ladder a bit, maybe become Assistant Manager, thats a different story.
There are also lots of people who are free during the day who want to pick up some extra money. When I worked in a grocery store the school aged people worked nights, weekends, and school holidays. The people who wanted to pick up some extra money (to suppliment the living wage their spouse was making) worked during the day - when their kids were in school and their spouses were at work.
When my brother and I were in school, my mother worked as a school aide during the lunch hours. My father worked a 40+ hour a week job, and was paid a living wage, but our family could use more money for luxuries. So my mother worked during the hours her kids were in school. Even if she worked 40 hours a week as a lunch aide, there was not way she could have supported the family on her own, and for the work a lunch aid performed, she was paid accordingly.
Again, see my answer above. There are plenty of people who will work all sorts of hours of the day who are not looking to live on what they take home.
To a point you are correct. But there is cost reduction and there is cost reduction. Improvements in process and procedures (which is what I do) can drive increased productivity, especially when coupled with new products and materials. But yes, cutting costs by cutting wages or labor can lead to a downward death spiral.
Sure you would. Many people can only work part time, or only want to work part time.
Jobs should pay what the job merits. Not all jobs merit a wage that a person working 40 hours a week can support a family on. If you set the minimum pay rate for all jobs equal to that amount, you are going to see a vast reduction in the number of part time jobs available.
You do realize that the profit margin on items sold in a grocery store, once all costs (including wages) are factored in is on the order of 1 to 2 percent. Grocery stores are one of the most cutthroat and tightly controlled from a cost standpoint industries out there.
Alektronic
Well-Known Member
It also depends on how much motivation one has. Disney itself provides a lot of opportunities. They want people to advance and better themselves. Disney University provides all kinds of free classes like resume writing, job interviewing skills, proper presentations, job advancements, management training etc. They also provide educational reimbursement. There are hundreds of different job classifications. A lot that pay really well. Even if you are roller coaster/attraction/ride enthusiast and love working around the rides. Ride Operations don't always pay the best, but some people I know wanted to actually work on the rides. Disney provided free schooling and put them in the apprenticeship program. They still worked a 40 hr week and went to school one night a week and was earning $12-15 a hour already. After they completed the apprenticeship, one guy is an Attraction Mechanic and earns $25 an hour. Another is a Computer/Ride and Show Technician and earns nearly $29 an hour. That is a very good pay rate for Florida and you don't need a 4 year degree just a Disney Degree. And he only works 4 days a week. He also went to all the special Disney training classes that allow him to work on all the Audio-Animatronic figures. Those are special Disney schools that you can't get anywhere else.
raven
Well-Known Member
You took the words right out of TDO's mouth.