News Disney World Cast Member unions to begin week of negotiations for wage increases, healthcare costs and more

[Lilofan]

Sure sounds like Disney should fire all it’s ungrateful current employees and just find a few thousand hard workin’ go-getters like the ones in this thread. What’s the problem?

Or managers at all levels need to manage motivate , train hold accountable the staff to improve guest service. That's why they are in those positions.

 

[flynnibus]

Why should the free market only work to keep wages where employers want them? If market and social forces mean a significantly large number of employees feel they can demand higher wages and better conditions, that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with the employees or the system.

Because it's not a two party problem. It's not just employers and employees. There is the business side as well that involves the customer. A job can't cost more than the business can sustain... else the business won't work. What the business can sustain depends on what the value can be sold to the market is.

To boil it down to simple things... if someone only wants pay $5 for a service... and it's a task that can only be completed 3 times an hour... it's not feasible for an employee to demand they be paid $25/hr to do it. That pay for that job isn't feasible.

Ultimately it's a four party balancing act... what value can the role deliver... what an employee needs... what an employee costs... and what the employer wants in terms of returns. No one of those pillars can operate without the say of the others.

And unlike an employee who thinks they are owed a job - no one props up the business when it can't meet it's needs. So demands on value are constrained by prices.. and prices are often very much market sensistive. You can't just tell a business "well just raise your prices" like that's a no-risk concern. If that delivery service now costs $10 and no one buys it.. and the company fails... was it really as simple as "just raise your prices"??

 

[Drdcm]

Congratulations on being the statistical outlier!
Average medical school debt is over $200K, so I'm so glad your hard work paid off. It's such a shame for everyone else in medical school that clearly isn't working hard enough to have something like this happen to them. Why doesn't everyone in school simply do this?

Many people get loan forgiveness through public service. There are a lot of options to get student loans paid for, including simple sign on bonuses.

Residency is the hard part, because we don’t get paid enough to pay off our loans, so they just continue to accumulate interest at a high rate on a high balance.

FWIW, I want Disney to pay more. I think they can afford to pay their employees more. I just didn’t like your dismissal of people who’ve worked hard for what they have.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

No - the 'no one wants to work' comments come from the people who literally take jobs and then DON'T DO THE JOB and don't meet common expectations of what it means to commit yourself to a job.

Or the people who think they should get the world handed to them because the world owes them a job. That's not how it works.

An employer is trying to find people to do a task or fulfill a need. The responsibility is on the employee to match what they want from a job with their capabilities and willingness to do it. If your capabilities don't match the kind of job you want - that's on the job seeker, not the employer. Same with someone without the willingness to actually do the job - like SHOW UP.

Can we not talk about these pointless extreme examples? It's not about the people who won't do anything or about the so-called people with unreasonable expectations.

We're talking about the average person who is willing and able to work full-time and wants a reasonable standing of living to go with it.

 

[flynnibus]

Yes I do.

And that mentality that simply says I was willing to work 40hrs so it must be life sustaining is fundamentally broke and unsustainable. It doesn't matter how many hours you work - it matters how much value that work can deliver. THAT is what defines the minimum salary for a job... not an ideal that says "random person X can have an apartment on their own in zipcode XYZ".

If your job can't deliver enough value, the job will be paid very little, and if no one takes the job, the job will need to be rethought to make it viable. Or, if people will take the job at those rates, then the job will be filled, and the employee who took the job knew the wage they were taking and the burden is on them to decide if that is viable or not for them.

 

[flynnibus]

Can we not talk about these pointless extreme examples? It's not about the people who won't do anything or about the so-called people with unreasonable expectations.

If you were an employer hiring young people in hourly wages these days you'd understand it's not 'extreme examples'. It's daily life!

It's been shown time and time again money isn't the reason for the behavior. I witness the same problem if the person is being paid $14 an hour or $25 an hour. The same entitlement and complete lack of responsibility carry on.

We're talking about the average person who is willing and able to work full-time and wants a reasonable standing of living to go with it.

Here's a simple fact - not all jobs are life sustaining. You can't take a low value job and try to mandate it be more than it is. Your biggest power is to simply NOT TAKE THAT JOB.

Or do what most people do if you can't secure a better job... get multiple jobs or multiple incomes.

 

[Andrew C]

So everyone should know that working for WDW is a bad gig?

They should account for the pay that will be offered. If they reach the opinion that this is a bad gig due to that....

This makes no sense? Everyone is hiring right now. There’s no lack of job opportunities for high school kids.

Legally, High School kids can’t work full time hours, at least in my area.

It makes a lot of sense. High school kids with no experience are being priced out of jobs they used to get.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Here's a simple fact - not all jobs are life sustaining. You can't take a low value job and try to mandate it be more than it is. Your biggest power is to simply NOT TAKE THAT JOB.

Or do what most people do if you can't secure a better job... get multiple jobs or multiple incomes.

I’m so sick of these “hiring young people examples” and the like, I’ve managed quick service restaurants for the better part of four years, if you hire good people and train well you’ll more than likely get good work. I usually say 1 in 3 people of everyone I hired would work out. It’s just the nature of the business.

Furthermore Disney employees more older people than other service industry employers. Secondly, most Disney CMs can’t really get a second job, they’re either working 40+ hours as a full time cast member or getting over scheduled as a part time cast member. This also doesn’t take into account those who have children and need to be home after xyz time to take care of their kids, etc.

The reality is Disney needs to raise wages, they simply can’t afford NOT to.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Because it's not a two party problem. It's not just employers and employees. There is the business side as well that involves the customer. A job can't cost more than the business can sustain... else the business won't work. What the business can sustain depends on what the value can be sold to the market is.

To boil it down to simple things... if someone only wants pay $5 for a service... and it's a task that can only be completed 3 times an hour... it's not feasible for an employee to demand they be paid $25/hr to do it. That pay for that job isn't feasible.

Ultimately it's a four party balancing act... what value can the role deliver... what an employee needs... what an employee costs... and what the employer wants in terms of returns. No one of those pillars can operate without the say of the others.

And unlike an employee who thinks they are owed a job - no one props up the business when it can't meet it's needs. So demands on value are constrained by prices.. and prices are often very much market sensistive. You can't just tell a business "well just raise your prices" like that's a no-risk concern. If that delivery service now costs $10 and no one buys it.. and the company fails... was it really as simple as "just raise your prices"??

Curse those employees who think they are owed a job! Don’t they know it’s employers who are owed their labor?

Actually, if employee wage demands kill businesses, there will be less demand for employees, and wage demands will fall! It fixes itself!

I love the idea that the government never helps out businesses but is always ready to lend copious assistance to the struggling employee. We all know that that the US government would NEVER bail out a failing business or pass huge amounts of legislation to assist large companies.

Please bear in mind that we are talking about Disney in this thread. We are not talking about a small business on razor thin margins that hires high school kids to part-time jobs and gives them personalized apprenticeship experiences and instruction. We all know how much the prices for everything at the Disney parks have skyrocketed while employee wages have remained largely stagnant. Pretending there’s no money to pay employees and that, oh my, we could never raise prices to increase wages - it’s the height of disingenuousness.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Most of these perspectives come down to those that have managed/owned private businesses with their own capital at risk or have been in positions in public companies with financial accountability and those that have not.

As was said by others, it comes down to the skills you have, the value you provide to the company, and the going rate for that value/service in the marketplace. All of the emotion, name calling, and histrionics will not change that dynamic.

If you have a job that requires such minimal skills and experience that a teenager or a person off the street with a couple days of basic training can do, that is not a valuable skill in the marketplace and your role (by its very definition) can be quickly replaced. To expect that one can support a family, own a house, even live by themselves on an entry level job is just not realistic.

If you want better pay and an elevated standard of living, you must learn/develop new skills that employers value. It really is not more complicated than that, unfortunately it just comes across as "harsh" or "mean", but financial reality is not always pleasant.

If a person's job is waking up Jose in the Tiki Room every twenty minutes (and I did it so please don't tell me it is difficult job) or serving popcorn off an ODV cart and they think they are worth more in the marketplace, just simply apply at other theme parks - if you are being underpaid for your skill they will gladly pay you more to acquire you, if they won't increase your pay, then you are being fairly compensated for your skills in the marketplace. Simple.

 

[flynnibus]

I typically expect that a minimum wage job should get you enough food to eat, enough for rent with maybe 1 or 2 room mates. Pay for transportation to work and personal time (bus/subway in cities or car and fuel in suburbs).

Also pay for utilities - hvac, power, water, internet.

Also should pay for some form of entertainment occasionally within reason.

Back in the day you didn't need a phone or internet. Today you need a cell phone and a reliable internet connection and email just to apply for a job.

Just added expense.

When I was last working minimum wage jobs... they didn't support my life expenses either. Know what I did? I worked two jobs and had a target take home amount each week.. and worked enough hours to meet that goal. I didn't just not show up. I didn't complain about my mental health for working two jobs. I actually had another job before those two.. and I didn't like it.. so what did I do? I found another job that I liked better!

I lived in a one bedroom apartment with 3 other people. I also partied like mad, and got to spend most days on the beach. And this was before every job had a tipjar expecting tips for working a cash register.

Every job after I used my prior experience to secure jobs that had higher starting pay, and eventually I was able to afford an apartment with only one roommate (my GF). I never stayed in the same level of work for long periods of time expecting my pay to magically grow just because my interest and expenses changed. When I wanted more, I sought opportunities that OFFERED more.

 

[kingdead]

I'm sure everyone on this board is a hard working genius with skills that could be used at every Fortune 500 company, every Ivy League college, and the Mayo Clinic besides BUT the problem here is attracting people to work in person jobs at hotels and theme parks.

In general, I'd say that you're not going to get white glove service without white glove money or at least some sort of sense of exclusivity to the job. Somebody who's motivated and isn't just doing the job because that's the only thing they can do will know that. If I know that when I eventually want to move on from a Disney job I can make more money somewhere else because of the name, I'll be more willing to stay and get some experience, if it has exactly the same cachet as working Universal and Universal pays more...

 

[Andrew C]

The reality is Disney needs to raise wages

But they are raising wages

 

[Casper Gutman]

If you were an employer hiring young people in hourly wages these days you'd understand it's not 'extreme examples'. It's daily life!

It's been shown time and time again money isn't the reason for the behavior. I witness the same problem if the person is being paid $14 an hour or $25 an hour. The same entitlement and complete lack of responsibility carry on.


Here's a simple fact - not all jobs are life sustaining. You can't take a low value job and try to mandate it be more than it is. Your biggest power is to simply NOT TAKE THAT JOB.

Or do what most people do if you can't secure a better job... get multiple jobs or multiple incomes.

It sure sounds like they’re exercising their power not to take a job for a wage they don’t want and that’s what’s infuriating you.

 

[JD80]

When I was last working minimum wage jobs... they didn't support my life expenses either. Know what I did? I worked two jobs and had a target take home amount each week.. and worked enough hours to meet that goal. I didn't just not show up. I didn't complain about my mental health for working two jobs. I actually had another job before those two.. and I didn't like it.. so what did I do? I found another job that I liked better!

I lived in a one bedroom apartment with 3 other people. I also partied like mad, and got to spend most days on the beach. And this was before every job had a tipjar expecting tips for working a cash register.

Every job after I used my prior experience to secure jobs that had higher starting pay, and eventually I was able to afford an apartment with only one roommate (my GF). I never stayed in the same level of work for long periods of time expecting my pay to magically grow just because my interest and expenses changed. When I wanted more, I sought opportunities that OFFERED more.

Good for you, I never worked a minimum wage job either.

We're painting with a broad brush here, but if you're working 40 hours a week at a job you should have some level of comfort in your life so your not just above the cusp of starving and homelessness.

I don't anyone is saying that an entry level job, and in thr context of this thread, a first time CM should be able to buy a home and support a family. They should be several notches above homeless and starving.

 

[flynnibus]

Congratulations on being the statistical outlier!
Average medical school debt is over $200K, so I'm so glad your hard work paid off. It's such a shame for everyone else in medical school that clearly isn't working hard enough to have something like this happen to them. Why doesn't everyone in school simply do this?

Because you actually have to work at life to make it work and be successful? Instead of expecting someone to just hand it to you for existing?

 

[JD80]

Because you actually have to work at life to make it work and be successful? Instead of expecting someone to just hand it to you for existing?

You sure are inventing a lot of people asking for handouts.

 

[MrPromey]

… Life is full of sacrifices. Employment is no different. If you want less sacrifices and compromise...you will need to eventually aim a bit higher to achieve that in the future...

Problem here for Disney is they need tens of thousands of people in one location who aren’t currently aiming higher and who are willing to put up with a little more crap and hassle than most jobs in the same range to do what they want done, where they need it done, when they need it done.

That’s a Disney problem people are somehow trying to twist into a cast member life-choice problem in this discussion.

 

[flynnibus]

No they weren't.

The maximum federal student loan is $5,500 first year, $6,500 second year, $7,500 third and fourth year.

Not average. Maximum. Doctors, lawyers, and MBAs drive the mathematical average up.

Well no one can get by on just the base stafford loan anymore.

I don't know why you all are arguing over what school costs -- it's all known what school costs and it's out of control. But really I have no idea what that has to do with kids trying to get no-skill starting wage positions at WDW.

I've put three kids through school... all types, from normal BA, to BS, to Fine Art degrees.. and one in med school now. My take away is no one can afford a typical away from home state school on their own without significant scholarships. My kids schools were 22k/yr, 36k/yr, and now 56k/yr. The Med School student is having to borrow nearly 80k//yr.

None of this is debatable... traditional univ tuition is not sustainable for a self-employeed student. But that's why there are all these other non-traditional formats out there now... filling some of that gap. But what does any of this have to do with starting wage jobs?

If you got a 4yr degree and are trying to figure out how to live on starting wage jobs for years on end... you got bigger problems.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Most of these perspectives come down to those that have managed/owned private businesses with their own capital at risk or have been in positions in public companies with financial accountability and those that have not.

As was said by others, it comes down to the skills you have, the value you provide to the company, and the going rate for that value/service in the marketplace. All of the emotion, name calling, and histrionics will not change that dynamic.

If you have a job that requires such minimal skills and experience that a teenager or a person off the street with a couple days of basic training can do, that is not a valuable skill in the marketplace and your role (by its very definition) can be quickly replaced. To expect that one can support a family, own a house, even live by themselves on an entry level job is just not realistic.

If you want better pay and an elevated standard of living, you must learn/develop new skills that employers value. It really is not more complicated than that, unfortunately it just comes across as "harsh" or "mean", but financial reality is not always pleasant.

If a person's job is waking up Jose in the Tiki Room every twenty minutes (and I did it so please don't tell me it is difficult job) or serving popcorn off an ODV cart and they think they are worth more in the marketplace, just simply apply at other theme parks - if you are being underpaid for your skill they will gladly pay you more to acquire you, if they won't increase your pay, then you are being fairly compensated for your skills in the marketplace. Simple.

It sorta seems like employers and employees are disagreeing over employees’ value, and the market will sort it out - either employers will have to raise wages, or employees will have to settle for less. But employers are so used to being able to define employee value that this is being viewed as some abhorrent upheaval and all sorts of really nasty insults are being slung at employees.