News Disney World Cast Member unions to begin week of negotiations for wage increases, healthcare costs and more

[flynnibus]

And what’s your business what someone decides to do with their life?

It's not your business - but in the same vein it's not your business to prop them up either.

If someone wants to go and be a basket weaver - Go.. be free... but if you want to be free of obligations, then so is everyone else free of obligations to you.

Maybe they’re fulfilled by pushing buttons on a ride or saying spiels. If they are, don’t they deserve to earn enough to live off of without turning to government assistance?

Part of life is providing for yourself and those you are responsible for. That comes with responsibilities - not just things you can ignore because 'you're fulfilled' by something.

I'm fulfilled by building Lego - that doesn't mean I don't need to find a job that pays for what I need.

 

[flynnibus]

This right here sums it up perfectly. It’s so baffling that people here on this forum can take the stance of “WDW CMs don’t deserve to make enough to live”. That’s basically what he just said.

Not what he said.

He said if your job can be done by "your job can be done by a newly turned 17 year old" its probably not a long term career role. That's a harsh reality any person needs to face. Nothing to do with WDW CMs... only that we are constantly shown WDW CMs who make that choice and then expect some sort of different outcome... because they want it to be different?

 

[Brian]

This right here sums it up perfectly. It’s so baffling that people here on this forum can take the stance of “WDW CMs don’t deserve to make enough to live”. That’s basically what he just said.

Seeing what current Disney front line CMs put up with, and having been one myself, I wouldn't be so callous as to say they don't "deserve to make enough to live." What I would say is that they should take advantage of the multitude of opportunities Disney affords them to advance their careers, either internally or externally, and get into positions which will pay them the wages they seek, and to enjoy the "fun jobs" like spieling on the Jungle Cruise or dancing down Main Street in the parade while they last.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Seeing what current Disney front line CMs put up with, and having been one myself, I wouldn't be so callous as to say they don't "deserve to make enough to live." What I would say is that they should take advantage of the multitude of opportunities Disney affords them to advance their careers, either internally or externally, and get into positions which will pay them the wages they seek.

But this doesn’t solve the problem, there will always be a need for front line cast members. They should be paid a living wage

 

[Brian]

But this doesn’t solve the problem, there will always be a need for front line cast members. They should be paid a living wage

This assumes that there won't be a consistent labor pool willing to take the front line jobs becoming of age. For example, the DCP fills a fair portion of these jobs, as do retirees.

 

[flynnibus]

But this doesn’t solve the problem, there will always be a need for front line cast members. They should be paid a living wage

Why can't some work be fulfilled by people who don't need a living wage?

Which is exactly what many jobs do today.... people opt'ing to take that kind of job because they feel it meets THEIR parameters.

 

[RobWDW1971]

This right here sums it up perfectly. It’s so baffling that people here on this forum can take the stance of “WDW CMs don’t deserve to make enough to live”. That’s basically what he just said.

You don't have to try to interpret what I said, I said it about as plainly as one can possibly say it.

WDW Cast Members deserve to be paid exactly what their skills are worth in the marketplace.

If that means they can "live" on it based on their life choices and expenses, great. If they cannot "live" on it, then they need to pick up an extra job, change their living situation/expenses, or learn new skills to get a higher paying job.

As has been said before - there is a real simple test to see if you are being paid fairly for your skills and experience in the marketplace - put yourself on the open market. If another employer is willing to pay you more, great, if not, you are currently being paid your market value. But your personal opinion of your value or what you need to "make enough to live" is not relevant to anybody.

And to the previous poster, if somebody wishes to spend their life doing the job a teenager can do, that is absolutely their choice. They just need to be mature and honest enough to admit that choice comes with tradeoffs including never being paid more than an unskilled teenager and therefore not complain because they are not being paid more than their skills are worth in the marketplace.

Every decision has consequences.

 

[Brian]

Why can't some work be fulfilled by people who don't need a living wage?

Which is exactly what many jobs do today.... people opt'ing to take that kind of job because they feel it meets THEIR parameters.

Great point. Many of the front liners at Disney have wealthy/highly paid spouses, worked 40 years in an office and wanted a fun retirement job mainly to stay active, or live with their parents and just want something that they can clock in, make a little money, and clock out.

 

[flynnibus]

Great point. Many of the front liners at Disney have wealthy spouses, worked 40 years in an office and wanted a fun retirement job mainly to stay active, or live with their parents and just want something that they can clock in, make a little money, and clock out.

Crazy concept right... take a job that fits your parameters? Don't take jobs that don't... It's almost like people believe WDW CMs are indentured servants or something... fighting for human treatment.

 

[mkt]

I'm fulfilled by building Lego - that doesn't mean I don't need to find a job that pays for what I need.

Then find a paid job building Lego.

If your business requires human labor to function, no matter how easy or menial the job is, you need to pay people for it. And if those wages aren’t enough for the market, you end up short staffed.

 

[flynnibus]

Reality is... having a competitor right in town like UNI is a good thing for WDW employees. It creates demand for workers and provides a comparable alternative. The truth is there are a ton of service sector jobs in the market.. so if thats what you want to do, this is a great place to be. UNI's expansion in the last decade also drives up demand.

The point though is to take advantage of such situations though, you must be willing to be mobile and willing to push for what you need. I truly think in this kind of market the existence of the Union hurts CMs by locking them into such large scale negotiation pieces that hold them back for years. It nerfs the employee's ability to apply any kind of leverage with their existing employer.

If Disney were such a horrible place in a competitive market, they would have to adapt to attract talent. But instead, they have tens of thousands of workers who for whatever personal reasons won't give up their abusive partner.

 

[Brian]

If your business requires human labor to function, no matter how easy or menial the job is, you need to pay people for it. And if those wages aren’t enough for the market, you end up short staffed.

Disney enjoys an unusual benefit of being such a beloved brand that some 18-30 year olds are willing to move across the country to live with five roommates and eat ramen every night for the privilege of working there at $15/hour.

Am I saying that is a lifestyle I would enjoy personally? No, that's why I worked my way up. But there are plenty who are willing and happy to do it for their entire career because it's what they dreamed of doing, so why would Disney pay more if they can already fill the jobs?

ETA: Yes, there are some understaffed areas right now, and a little worse than pre-COVID. But there are always some understaffed areas because they are generally "unattractive" roles, like Housekeeping (hence why they are paid starting at $18/hour), Security and Bus Driver.

 

[mkt]

Disney enjoys an unusual benefit of being such a beloved brand that some 18-30 year olds are willing to move across the country to live with five roommates and eat ramen every night for the privilege of working there at $15/hour.

They were, but not so much anymore. Clearly anecdotal, but I chat with Disney recruiters regularly via linkedin and in person getting drinks after work, and they're having a harder time than normal filling these roles.

Lots of the people they'd normally hire or bring back from furlough used the lockdown to get themselves better jobs, and with how politicized and polarized the country is, many potential candidates don't find Disney as attractive as it once was.

Not to mention Florida's housing shortages and increased costs being making the news nationally.

But sure, you still see these people. Just not as many.

 

[mkt]

Reality is... having a competitor right in town like UNI is a good thing for WDW employees. It creates demand for workers and provides a comparable alternative. The truth is there are a ton of service sector jobs in the market.. so if thats what you want to do, this is a great place to be. UNI's expansion in the last decade also drives up demand.

Not just them. Lots of remote customer service roles and white-collar jobs are competing for the same people, offering comparable or better pay without having to leave your house to deal with thousands of entitled during a hot humid Florida day.

 

[Brian]

They were, but not so much anymore. Clearly anecdotal, but I chat with Disney recruiters regularly via linkedin and in person getting drinks after work, and they're having a harder time than normal filling these roles.

Lots of the people they'd normally hire or bring back from furlough used the lockdown to get themselves better jobs, and with how politicized and polarized the country is, many potential candidates don't find Disney as attractive as it once was.

Not to mention Florida's housing shortages and increased costs being making the news nationally.

But sure, you still see these people. Just not as many.

Agreed, and perhaps I should have said "Disney enjoyed an unusual benefit..." since COVID certainly shook up the status quo. It's the primary reason I think that Disney will end up agreeing to $17 or perhaps even $17.50/hour minimum wage in the end.

I do think the status quo will return in the next few years though. The "pipeline" hasn't been shut off.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I’d say about 40% of on stage security CM’s wouldn’t have been able to get and hold the job 10-15 years ago. The decline is not just in appearance but in attitudes in certain departments. Some of these guys make the TSA look friendly (and I’m not exaggerating.)

 

[mkt]

I’d say about 40% of on stage security CM’s wouldn’t have been able to get and hold the job 10-15 years ago. The decline is not just in appearance but in attitudes in certain departments. Some of these guys make the TSA look friendly (and I’m not exaggerating.)

Oh yeah. In the past few months we have caught them opening up one bottle of my kid's formula bottle while going through security on two occasions while entering Epcot. This means that we have to feed it IMMEDIATELY to my son or toss it in the trash, but it also means that we lose several hours at the end of the day, since we pack enough to last him a day, but now we're short one bottle. Not even the TSA pulls this crap.

But Disney security CM's have always been pr¡cks IMO.

 

[RobWDW1971]

I’d say about 40% of on stage security CM’s wouldn’t have been able to get and hold the job 10-15 years ago. The decline is not just in appearance but in attitudes in certain departments. Some of these guys make the TSA look friendly (and I’m not exaggerating.)

Absolutely agree. Disney has obliterated any concept of "Disney Look", "Disney Service", "White Glove Treatment", etc. I stare in disbelief in the parks at the professionalism and service levels provided. Had a plaid on a VIP tour the other day shout at me and others to get out of her way like a drill sergeant.

But blame the guests lining up to pay full price, add Genie+, buy ILL's, wait in line for an hour to buy a popcorn bucket, etc. all while gleefully Instagramming their network back home.

Disney has learned that their previous standards are no longer required to keep the parks/resorts full and as the parks have become more of a "lifestyle" than an actual vacation destination competing on service/experience with other resorts, there is no bottom to the service quality they can offer and the people will beg for more, because it's AMAZING!!!

All that does is expand the hiring pool so anybody who fogs the mirror and can be available to work a Friday night is hired - and that puts continued downward pressure on wages. It's as simple as that and nobody's percieved "living wage" matters.

 

[mkt]

Absolutely agree. Disney has obliterated any concept of "Disney Look", "Disney Service", "White Glove Treatment", etc. I stare in disbelief in the parks at the professionalism and service levels provided. Had a plaid on a VIP tour the other day shout at me and others to get out of her way like a drill sergeant.

But blame the guests lining up to pay full price, add Genie+, buy ILL's, wait in line for an hour to buy a popcorn bucket, etc. all while gleefully Instagramming their network back home.

Disney has learned that their previous standards are no longer required to keep the parks/resorts full and as the parks have become more of a "lifestyle" than an actual vacation destination competing on service/experience with other resorts, there is no bottom to the service quality they can offer and the people will beg for more, because it's AMAZING!!!

All that does is expand the hiring pool so anybody who fogs the mirror and can be available to work a Friday night is hired - and that puts continued downward pressure on wages. It's as simple as that and nobody's percieved "living wage" matters.

I agree with most of this.

But I've also been calling on the declining standards of Disney parks for years.

I just don't blame the CM's for it. I blame the company.

 

[Nubs70]

Currently, from what I can tell, Disney only hires 18+.

And anyone under 18 would be working only in certain positions that really are “entry level.”

Nobody is saying someone who works at ODV for 10 years should be making $100k, rather, anyone who works a full time job should be making at least 35-40k.

And yes, I agree that lowering the standards to increase the labor pool and then bragging about it in the name of “inclusivity” is quite the trick. When fast food restaurants like chik-fil-a and In-n-out have higher appearance standards than Disney Parks… I’d say there is something wrong.

You are paid by the value you create not by length of service.