Disney workers robbed leaving work at the cast member parking lot at MK

[BigTxEars]

So if someone walked onto your job and shot you in the back while you walked to your car, that's your fault, right?

How would it be my fault? Or my employers? I would place every bit of the blame on the shooter. How is my employer responsible in any way? What are they suppose to do, 12 foot fences, armed guards, snipers on the roof?

I don't subscribe to the crazy ideal that everything thing that happens on the property of a business is their fault. That is insane and driven by the litigious and nanny nature of some in American society today. They have a responsibility to provide a safe working environment, not to be accountable for the actions of some scumbag criminals who happens to use their property to commit a crime. If they have me running say a forklift that has bad brakes and I am hurt/killed then yes that is their responsibility.

If there has been a proven history of these types of crimes on the WDW CM parking lot and WDW did not respond properly and take pecautions then yes they are liable. That does not seem to be the case here at all, the very fact that a simple mugging made the news shows that it is pretty darn rare there IMO.

The opposite of that is employers should not have the right to hinder a employees ability to protect themselves either outside the work place, or as they travel to and from work. In fact employers trying to take responsibility and protect their people in the work place lead those employees being less safe in fact IMO. Employers being too nanny like lead to them telling people what they could even store in their cars when they were on company property. How insane is that? Telling me what I can have in my car, when that has nothing to do with me at work at all. That is what happens when employers take too big a role in their employees lives IMO.

Hence laws like this, this is Texas but there are like laws nationwide.

"On June 17, 2011, Governor Perry (Texas) signed Senate Bill 321 into law, which permits properly licensed employees to keep a concealed firearm and ammunition locked in their cars while their vehicles are parked in their employers' parking lots, parking garages, or other parking areas, even if the employers have a policy prohibiting employees from bringing weapons onto their property."

I admit proudly that I am a Texas boy born and bred, I believe in personal responsibility, I don't want nor need a nanny employer to be my shepard. So I am a bit biased when it comes to this incident. All blame (101%) on the criminals, not the victims or owners of the property where the crime was committed.

 

[EpcoTim]

How would it be my fault? Or my employers? I would place every bit of the blame on the shooter. How is my employer responsible in any way? What are they suppose to do, 12 foot fences, armed guards, snipers on the roof?

I don't subscribe to the crazy ideal that everything thing that happens on the property of a business is their fault. That is insane and driven by the litigious and nanny nature of some in American society today. They have a responsibility to provide a safe working environment, not to be accountable for the actions of some scumbag criminals who happens to use their property to commit a crime. If they have me running say a forklift that has bad brakes and I am hurt/killed then yes that is their responsibility.

If there has been a proven history of these types of crimes on the WDW CM parking lot and WDW did not respond properly and take pecautions then yes they are liable. That does not seem to be the case here at all, the very fact that a simple mugging made the news shows that it is pretty darn rare there IMO.

It's your fault for having an expensive cell phone. It's your fault for not having a better car.

Or do those standards and borderline psychotic arguments only apply to CM's?

 

[BigTxEars]

It's your fault for having an expensive cell phone. It's your fault for not having a better car.

Or do those standards and borderline psychotic arguments only apply to CM's?

So I was shot at work in your scenario cause I had a expensive cell phone and older car?

Still not my fault or my employer. Still 100% the fault of the scumbag shooter.

Like I have said a bunch of times now, I don't place blame (any at all) on the victim CMs or WDW, all (as in 100%) on the scumbags.

I have no ideal what your point is with this post. Happen to reply if you can explain your point to me.

 

[EpcoTim]

So I was shot at work in your scenario cause I had a expensive cell phone and older car?

Still not my fault or my employer. Still 100% the fault of the scumbag shooter.

Like I have said a bunch of times now, I don't place blame (any at all) on the victim CMs or WDW, all (as in 100%) on the scumbags.

I have no ideal what your point is with this post. Happen to reply if you can explain you point to me.

You've already tried to place blame on the CM's because they decided to have cell phones and expensive plans rather than a beater car. How do you know that the CM's had "expensive" cell phones? How do you know they had phones at all? How do you know what kind of car they may or may not have? Who are you to judge a person based on how they spend their money?

You don't find it borderline insane that you tried to justify someone being mugged because of something they may or may not have in their pocket?

I understand that it breaks your heart that someone even dared to mention something negative about WDW, but to turn that around and try to blame an innocent worker is garbage. You can sit there and say you don't blame anyone but the thieves, but that wasn't your original tone. I can sit here and tell you that I'm not using an electronic device as I type this, but we both know that's a load.

Really, I could care less. I have no mouse in this race. I just find the ignorance involved in your justification of the employees being at fault to be mind-blowing. Are you the type of guy to loudly try and cut down your waitress at a crowded restaurant in order to seem like a big man in front of your kids? Cause that's how your initial comments come across. Go ahead and lick the feet of The Iger Company all you want, but don't try and justify someone getting mugged leaving work because you think they have a nice cell phone and no car instead of allowing someone to suggest that the company they work for should do more to insure their safety.

 

[BigTxEars]

You've already tried to place blame on the CM's because they decided to have cell phones and expensive plans rather than a beater car. How do you know that the CM's had "expensive" cell phones? How do you know they had phones at all? How do you know what kind of car they may or may not have? Who are you to judge a person based on how they spend their money?

You don't find it borderline insane that you tried to justify someone being mugged because of something they may or may not have in their pocket?

I understand that it breaks your heart that someone even dared to mention something negative about WDW, but to turn that around and try to blame an innocent worker is garbage. You can sit there and say you don't blame anyone but the thieves, but that wasn't your original tone. I can sit here and tell you that I'm not using an electronic device as I type this, but we both know that's a load.

Really, I could care less. I have no mouse in this race. I just find the ignorance involved in your justification of the employees being at fault to be mind-blowing. Are you the type of guy to loudly try and cut down your waitress at a crowded restaurant in order to seem like a big man in front of your kids? Cause that's how your initial comments come across. Go ahead and lick the feet of The Iger Company all you want, but don't try and justify someone getting mugged leaving work because you think they have a nice cell phone and no car instead of allowing someone to suggest that the company they work should do more to insure their safety.

Read post #28.

"And the alternative when they're leaving their near-minimum wage job at the end of their shift is?"

which was a reply to
"f there's any responsibility Disney has in this, about the only thing I can think of is it would be nice if Disney could provide training and communication to their CM's on behaviors to use to avoid being the victim of a crime. Walking along a road at 1:00 AM in a statistically very high crime area with an expensive cell phone in your pocket is not a good behavior, unfortunately. Thankfully no one was injured or killed!"

They had cell phones it says so in the linked story from the 1st post, that is what was taken from them in fact. I have no ideal what they cost, the expensive comment was from post #28 as you can see above. I do think (as I posted) one alternative would be to not buy a phone / contract and use that money to buy a different form (other than walking) of transportation. The beater car came into the conversation because a cell phone and contract will run what, $1100-$1200 a year? That's beater car money around here. Where am I wrong in that reply to the question above from post #28? Not sure why me saying the CMs did indeed have a alternative places blame on them for the crime.

Not sure how waitstaff came into the conversation? Or Iger for that matter? Be it Disney, Ford or IBM my comments are about employer responsibility, not Disney in particular, it's certainly nothing to do with Iger, Clearly since this is a Disney board and this event took place around Disney then of course Disney is going to be the company of conversation in this thread. How on Earth does Disney in this case have the responsibility to teach adults about crime prevention? Why is that their responsibility? I think once someone leaves the work place the employer is not responsible for them at all. I certain don't want mine to be. They are not nor should they be responsible for my safety going to or coming from work.

Like I said if WDW had a ongoing issue with these types of issues and did nothing or even not enough then they are liable, but that does not appear to be the case here. But a random thing like this, I would not hold the employer responsible at all, why would I? If I am at the mall tomorrow and some nutbag runs up and punches me in the face I am certainly not going to blame the mall because they did not prevent something they could not prevent. Same thing with this story IMO.

I have said (like 5 times now) the scumbags thieves are 100% at fault, not Disney and certainly not the CMs. If you want to read something else into my answer of the the question from post #28 then go ahead I am pretty much done with trying to explain that I believe adult criminals are 100% at fault for their crimes.

All that Iger hate gonna eat you up from the inside! The Iger company? I take it your not a fan of his? I am pretty neutral on him, but there ensure seems to be a lot of hate for the man out there. But I would guess anyone in a position like his is bound to draw both fans and opponents.

 

[EpcoTim]

Yeah, it really doesn't matter.

 

[BigTxEars]

Yeah, it really doesn't matter.

Oh come on I type all that and this is all I get in reply?

LOL that ain't nice at all of you!

But your right in the end it does not matter.

 

[EpcoTim]

Oh come on I type all that and this is all I get in reply?

LOL that ain't nice at all of you!

But your right in the end it does not matter.

Alright, alright. Maybe I misread things, maybe I didn't. But my interpretation of what you said caught me off guard(got that?). Cars and cell phones really have no place in what happened as far as I'm concerned. Ok, sure, they could very well have been the targets of the thieves, but as far the employees owning them and the types-- that doesn't matter. I also don't agree with calling cell phones luxury items these days, especially considering you can buy one at the grocery store check out.

Really I just found it wrong, wrong on many levels, to even try an find an excuse to pin this on the employees. We agree on that and that was the main point. I think.

Now how the hell did I end up at the lake and where are my pants?

 

[Cesar R M]

I could have elaborated but my point wasn't that they can't necessarily afford a car, but with living so close to work they probably don't need one and don't need any of the additional expenses that come along with one. The poster was suggesting that people shouldn't be walking home with their phones in their pockets at 1 in the morning. I'm just trying to figure out the alternatives. Proximity would be one reason for not driving, cost would be another. Hell, one of the robberies happened on Disney property so it's possible the Cast Member was walking back to their car when it happened. Maybe I didn't word it in the best way possible initially but it seemed like there was an attempt to shift the blame towards the victims of the crime, employees just trying to get home at the end of their workday, and I found that unsettling.

Agree with you.
Even if it happened once, they should improve lightning near the fence areas and make the police stop the culprits, doing nothing will only tell the thieves that "its safe to steal there". and will incite more extreme crime.
CRIME GROWS because IT IS LET TO GROW.

So income should be a determining factor in who is a crime victim? It's OK to rob the wealthy, they deserve it for being successful.

You work for the federal government by chance?

I still wonder why this whole thing started?

I just think it's an unpleasant coincidence. ..not Disney's fault ..Def not the cast members fault..now Disney can increase security a little. .cast can be on the lookout and hopefully it won't happen again. If it keeps happening. ..Disney will have to really step up

Agree, or add cameras to stop the culprits from happening again.
If it keeps happening things might get worse.. as more thiefs might think its safe to steal from there.

How often does it happen? I don't keep up with things like this but it seems to have made the news which I would think means it's rare. But I am sure WDW will take steps they feel are warrented.

The point is.. even if its rare.. it shouldn't happen anywhere... sadly that is a perfect world material and we do not live in a perfect world.

I don't subscribe to the crazy ideal that everything thing that happens on the property of a business is their fault. That is insane and driven by the litigious and nanny nature of some in American society today. They have a responsibility to provide a safe working environment, not to be accountable for the actions of some scumbag criminals who happens to use their property to commit a crime. If they have me running say a forklift that has bad brakes and I am hurt/killed then yes that is their responsibility.

If there has been a proven history of these types of crimes on the WDW CM parking lot and WDW did not respond properly and take pecautions then yes they are liable. That does not seem to be the case here at all, the very fact that a simple mugging made the news shows that it is pretty darn rare there IMO.

Agree with you there.

I admit proudly that I am a Texas boy born and bred, I believe in personal responsibility, I don't want nor need a nanny employer to be my shepard. So I am a bit biased when it comes to this incident. All blame (101%) on the criminals, not the victims or owners of the property where the crime was committed.

What does this has to do with the whole thing anyway?
I only think that your comment about the cellphones was uncalled, but what does this has to do with the whole affair?

Alright, alright. Maybe I misread things, maybe I didn't. But my interpretation of what you said caught me off guard(got that?). Cars and cell phones really have no place in what happened as far as I'm concerned. Ok, sure, they could very well have been the targets of the thieves, but as far the employees owning them and the types-- that doesn't matter. I also don't agree with calling cell phones luxury items these days, especially considering you can buy one at the grocery store check out.

Really I just found it wrong, wrong on many levels, to even try an find an excuse to pin this on the employees. We agree on that and that was the main point. I think.

Now how the hell did I end up at the lake and where are my pants?

agree with you on how the cellphones or car shouldn't have anything to do with the whole affair. The thieves could be just trying to get their wallets! regardless of what phones they had. The phones could have been an extra.

 

[BigTxEars]

Alright, alright. Maybe I misread things, maybe I didn't. But my interpretation of what you said caught me off guard(got that?). Cars and cell phones really have no place in what happened as far as I'm concerned. Ok, sure, they could very well have been the targets of the thieves, but as far the employees owning them and the types-- that doesn't matter. I also don't agree with calling cell phones luxury items these days, especially considering you can buy one at the grocery store check out.

Really I just found it wrong, wrong on many levels, to even try an find an excuse to pin this on the employees. We agree on that and that was the main point. I think.

Now how the hell did I end up at the lake and where are my pants?

Most likely my fault, I had Mexican for dinner. And I ordered an ice tea, an ICE TEA??? No margarita??? That has messed me up all night I tell ya!!!!

I should have worded my post better, but I swear they made perfect sense to me!!

 

[BigTxEars]

"I still wonder why this whole thing started?"

From the comment that it would have been better if a WDW exec would have been mugged than a CM.

"What does this has to do with the whole thing anyway?
I only think that your comment about the cellphones was uncalled, but what does this has to do with the whole affair?"

I am pretty straight forward in my thoughts regarding the responsibility of businesses in matters such as these. It's the same with most folks around where I live, I find that is not the case it other parts of the U.S. I'm the kinda of guy that thinks that if you are walking thru the grocery store and slip on a puddle of split soda then thats 100% your fault. Many disagree with that and think the store is responsible. I was just trying to admit my biased views on it as it applies to this story.

 

[Robin Of Loxley]

I cannot believe the amount of victim blaming is going on here.

Two people get mugged and you want to blame them?

I cannot begin to describe how shocked I was when I started reading some of those posts hinting the victims are at fault.

Then again, these are the same boards which currently have a close to 1,000-page debate ongoing about whether or not it is "fair" for CM's to earn enough for the basic necessities of life.

Nothing phases me anymore. Nothing.

 

[BigTxEars]

I cannot begin to describe how shocked I was when I started reading some of those posts hinting the victims are at fault.

Then again, these are the same boards which currently have a close to 1,000-page debate ongoing about whether or not it is "fair" for CM's to earn enough for the basic necessities of life.

Nothing phases me anymore. Nothing.

I can see we are on different sides of that wage debate but I think that wage debate was at the root of this crime debate early on.

 

[Cesar R M]

Most likely my fault, I had Mexican for dinner. And I ordered an ice tea, an ICE TEA??? No margarita??? That has messed me up all night I tell ya!!!!

I should have worded my post better, but I swear they made perfect sense to me!!

Real Mexican or "Mexican" food?

"I still wonder why this whole thing started?"

From the comment that it would have been better if a WDW exec would have been mugged than a CM.

Pretty sure the execs have all their own security detail with their own personal rambos with snipers.
Also they would never park there.. they would probably have their own VIP place.
so the comparison is not fair lol.

"What does this has to do with the whole thing anyway?
I only think that your comment about the cellphones was uncalled, but what does this has to do with the whole affair?"

I am pretty straight forward in my thoughts regarding the responsibility of businesses in matters such as these. It's the same with most folks around where I live, I find that is not the case it other parts of the U.S. I'm the kinda of guy that thinks that if you are walking thru the grocery store and slip on a puddle of split soda then thats 100% your fault. Many disagree with that and think the store is responsible. I was just trying to admit my biased views on it as it applies to this story.

I agree with you in the substance, but you're missing a big point.

What if the store clerk outright let the guy who puddled the soda on purpose because a) he was lazy b) was ed at the store's owner? or c) the owner would just call the insurance and ask for it?

A place as public as WDW would always need security... this is no perfect world so a security detail would be expected to keep things pacified.

Id blame WDW management if things are not improved in the future, but not now. (Ie, like the store owner tale.. if WDW management refuses to put cameras or better lights in the zone that thieves are getting more and more usual.. or at least ask for better police patrols).

another example would be the responsibility chain; if you pay WDW for security, id expect them to have part of the blame if bad things happen.. they're supposed to keep things safe in the first place!.

I cannot begin to describe how shocked I was when I started reading some of those posts hinting the victims are at fault.

Then again, these are the same boards which currently have a close to 1,000-page debate ongoing about whether or not it is "fair" for CM's to earn enough for the basic necessities of life.

Nothing phases me anymore. Nothing.

the internet is an amazing place... and an awful place..
You can find outright dumbastic people making totally retarded comments.. also find sadism and anger in all its glory... sarcasm everywhere..
but in the bright side, you also find amazing people, incredible masterworks, intelligent content and hilarious stuff.

 

[Prince-1]

You weren't robbed. You voluntarily handed over your money. Disney didn't ask your for it nor hold a gun to you. A crime was committed. The victims could have been hurt or worse and there are always people who attempt to be funny and make it about themselves. Grow up folks.

HI Grumpy!!! It's called humor. Let me explain how it works, people say or try to say funny things about a situation that isn't funny. It happens all the time. We all know robbery is bad but no one got hurt so we can make the ha-ha!!

 

[PhotoDave219]

I cannot begin to describe how shocked I was when I started reading some of those posts hinting the victims are at fault.

Then again, these are the same boards which currently have a close to 1,000-page debate ongoing about whether or not it is "fair" for CM's to earn enough for the basic necessities of life.

Nothing phases me anymore. Nothing.

People will sit and argue anything when they are safely behind gates locked away in their McMansions.

 

[BigTxEars]

People will sit and argue anything when they are safely behind gates locked away in their McMansions.

Oh how very simplistic of you....

 

[PhotoDave219]

Oh how very simplistic of you....

Indeed. Simple works wonders.

 

[BigTxEars]

"Real Mexican or "Mexican" food?"

TexMex baby the real deal! You can not throw a rock in southeast Texas and not hit a good Mexican place!

"What if the store clerk outright let the guy who puddled the soda on purpose because a) he was lazy b) was ed at the store's owner? or c) the owner would just call the insurance and ask for it?"

If there was neglect on the part of the business then liability makes sense. But that's sadly not how many think, take this issue for example. A event (this theft) takes place, it's a rare occurrence that Disney could not have prevented yet folks think somehow that Disney has some type of liability for it. Crazy.

Like I said if there is a record of this occurring in the past (which by the mere fact that it made the news, and where no previous issues were mentioned shows me it is not a common occurrence) then Disney has liability, otherwise they do not.

 

[BigTxEars]

Indeed. Simple works wonders.

What does "simple works wonder" mean?