Disney, VR/AR, and Apple's WWDC 2023

[Vinnie Mac]

People don't like it.

Not true at all

 

[Vinnie Mac]

Putting AR into windshields would actually be great if it could overlay your GPS routes. (It's sort of happening with Head-up display).
No entertainment but something useful like that would be great.

I could see that being a natural step for AR technology for sure

 

[MrPromey]

Another hands-on from iJustine

Not sure I can trust the review of an Apple product from anyone who starts their username with a lowercaes "i".

Just sayin'

 

[MrPromey]

Disney could sell these alongside the sippers and popcorn holders.
I could see one that looks like WALL-E with the Vision Pro being his eyes.

Another that looks like the Divers Mask from Nemo...

[immediately regrets linking credit card to son's Magic Band]

 

[GhostHost1000]

I’ll do it if I can get some decent Star Wars material on it…which means I’ll have to write my own

…Jar jar Binks has left the chat

 

[MrPromey]

AR/MR, sure. That's going to take off and be a big deal.

VR, though? As I said above, I think it's unlikely to ever be a widely used product because of the numerous obstacles. There are already high quality VR headsets and have been for years -- there is a market for them, and it's not going to go away, but it's really difficult to envision a scenario where they turn into something that's used on a daily basis by the average person.

I think the iPad/tablets in general are actually in that category to an extent, although they're more popular/widely used now than I think VR alone (i.e. not AR/MR) ever will be. There was a brief window where people thought tablets would replace desktops and laptops entirely (see Microsoft's disastrous Windows 8), but they seem to have settled in as a secondary/supplemental item for most consumers rather than an outright replacement.

I'm guessing this is why Meta is moving into a VR/AR/MR space with the Quest Pro last year and the Quest 3 this year and why Apple waited to release anything until they were able to come out targeting that space from the get-go.

That dumb eye thing in the front seems like a gimmick but they put a non-trivial amount of thought into including it at what would be great added cost and hit to battery life because of how important they clearly thought the need for eye contact was in terms of wearing this thing around others.

Whether they hit the mark with that remains to be seen.

In the videos, it look silly to me. In person, maybe it seems... still space-man-like but a little less silly?

 

[MrPromey]

The version they made wasn't 7x the price of the alternatives.

Yes, there were expensive Blackberries and other business-oriented devices out there but many of Apple's early adopters were coming from free-with-contract phone buyers to a product with a launch price starting at $599.

Even after the 3G and them allowing carrier subsidies, the overwhelming bulk of their customers were still coming from free-with-contract phones to $299-with-contract phones.

Apple was never competing with Blackberry and their ilk (even though they killed them by taking their audience, too).

They were competing with a market largely accustomed to having to hit one physical button on a phone four times to type the letter "s" in a text message.

 

[Andrew C]

Samsung Blackjack II was my first "smartphone" and that came after the iphone I believe.. lol

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yes, there were expensive Blackberries and other business-oriented devices out there but many of Apple's early adopters were coming from free-with-contract phone buyers to a product with a launch price starting at $599.

Even after the 3G and them allowing carrier subsidies, the overwhelming bulk of their customers were still coming from free-with-contract phones to $299 with contract phones.

Apple was never competing with Blackberry and their ilk (even though they killed them by taking their audience, too). They were completing with a market largely acustomed to having to hit one physical button on a phone four times to type the letter "s" in a text message.

As I said elsewhere, the iPhone was a better version of an existing thing. That can work. A brand new thing can also work. VR headsets are already a flop, nobody wants them. A better version of a thing that sucks and nobody wants is still a thing that sucks and nobody wants.

 

[Trauma]

I’m hearing some wild stuff from a couple of sources.

Apple is looking to acquire Disney as a way to drive the Vision Pro adaptation.

I’m waiting to hear back from someone for more confirmation.

Watch Disney stock price if it starts to shoot up for no apparent reason there is smoke.

There is at this point at least talks that took place.

The chances of this happening I would say are very slim but certainly something to keep an eye on.

 

[hopemax]

One of our interests is pro cycling, and one of the bloggers mentioned the VisionPro on Twitter after the announcement, and multiple responses were imagining how sweaty it would get if they tried to actually use one while training on their stationary bikes. Unlike the iPhones, iPads, watches, computers, with VR there are real physical challenges associated with these devices that aren't present with the more successful products. Whoever can figure out how to make this stuff work with what feels and weighs like oversized sunglasses, more portable, that's when it will break through. Maybe. They've tried to make 3-D movies a thing for forever, and the audience rejects it. This feels more of a continuation of that innovation path.

 

[MrPromey]

The rumor mill for Apple Vision is that a lower price non-pro version is not far behind in the pipeline. I think the $3500 will work to get this out of the door and into people's hands. Enough people will buy it to get the concept launched. A lot of people will want one based on the initial version, and Apple will make it more accessible for those people from a price point.

While the $3500 is certainly not cheap, on the scale of high-end computer hardware, it is not outrageous. This isn't Starcruiser pricing, and it will last a lot longer than 2 days. I still think there is a massive market out there that will pay high-end laptop prices for Apple Vision.

To me, this feels like the developer kit.

I'm sure Apple will be happy to scoop up any early adopters they can along with the viral footage of Will Smith's kids out on the town walking into things while wearing them but I think this big public push is meant to create the hype needed to make third parties think they need to support it.

I'm not sure that'll work on the big players who will likely wait until there is a safe and obvious short turn on investment but it'll get the small time folks going which might be enough to move a future cheaper release that'll eventually get the 2Ks and Actionvisions and EAs on board if they can increase sales at that level.

If they can show enough proof of concept stuff for non-gaming industry use, they'll probably have an easier time attracting a productivity crowd of developers that doesn't need to employ an army of 3D modelers, voice actors, and full orchestras to get their products out the door, too.

 

[MrPromey]

As I said elsewhere, the iPhone was a better version of an existing thing. That can work. A brand new thing can also work. VR headsets are already a flop, nobody wants them. A better version of a thing that sucks and nobody wants is still a thing that sucks and nobody wants.

Meta has sold over 20 million Quest headsets.

Sony clearly thought they sold enough PSVRs and content for them to justify a more expensive and more advanced PSVR2.

I know you like to be overly-dramatic with boisterous and absolute claims but maybe settle down a bit with the talk of "nobody", there, buckaroo.

That obviously doesn't compare to say, the 125 million lifetime sales of the Nintendo Switch to date at the other end of the spectrum but it's far from nobody, either.*

I get it; you don't like it and don't want any of it and therefore think nobody should (thank god nobody's forcing it on you) but boy am I glad we don't live in a world where only your tastes and opinions matter.

Also, you moved the goalposts there on the flawed argument I was responding to.

*Meta also has a problem with engagement but that comes from compromises in the product design needed to keep the price low and slow developer adoption - content is king and for the last 18 months, content has been pretty stagnant.

 

[MrPromey]

I don't think that's it. The biggest issue with VR is that it requires completely isolating yourself from your surrounding environment, and that's just not something that works for the majority of the population most of the time -- either because they don't want to (even for simple reasons like multitasking; you can't watch a movie and do laundry at the same time if you're watching the movie in VR) or because they just can't due to lifestyle factors (children being a major one), physical impairments (motion sickness, vision, etc.) or other reasons. I know several people with VR headsets (the Oculus is self-contained and not wildly expensive, and has sold 15+ million units) and none of them get regular use for various reasons.

There's absolutely a market for VR and it's not going away, but the idea that it's going to become the next big thing has never felt logical to me. As I said above, it's probably closer to iPads/tablets as something that will settle in as a secondary item for the average person instead of iPhones/smart phones that became the standard.

None of that applies to this Apple headset, though, since it's not solely VR. The AR/MR market has room for huge growth.

I'm not understanding your point. You do understand that newer headsets like this one DO offer AR/MR experiences, right?

Like, with spatial tracking, it'll be possible for you to watch your movie and fold your laundry because the headset will be able to see the objects in your foreground and based on the distance you've set the "screen" in front of you, cut them out from it?

I didn't see Apple demo anything like this (although the ability is there as shown with how it can cast environmental shadows on virtual objects) but Meta already has.

So it sounds like you're saying the old hardware isn't going to catch on but the newer devices probably will?

 

[Indy_UK]

I’m hearing some wild stuff from a couple of sources.

Apple is looking to acquire Disney as a way to drive the Vision Pro adaptation.

I’m waiting to hear back from someone for more confirmation.

Watch Disney stock price if it starts to shoot up for no apparent reason there is smoke.

There is at this point at least talks that took place.

The chances of this happening I would say are very slim but certainly something to keep an eye on.

Aquire Disney in order to push their headset? I don’t see that happening with Disney agreeing to support it already? Big purchase to just push adoption of VisionPro

 

[MrPromey]

One of our interests is pro cycling, and one of the bloggers mentioned the VisionPro on Twitter after the announcement, and multiple responses were imagining how sweaty it would get if they tried to actually use one while training on their stationary bikes. Unlike the iPhones, iPads, watches, computers, with VR there are real physical challenges associated with these devices that aren't present with the more successful products. Whoever can figure out how to make this stuff work with what feels and weighs like oversized sunglasses, more portable, that's when it will break through. Maybe. They've tried to make 3-D movies a thing for forever, and the audience rejects it. This feels more of a continuation of that innovation path.

It's an established known issue for sure but it hasn't stopped physical fitness from becoming one of, if not the top reason people are buying headsets at the non-enthusiast level:

Exercise by Accident: VR Games To Help You Work Out at Home | Meta Quest Blog

You can get a surprising amount of exercise “by accident” with a bunch of these VR games. If you’ve ever thought you’d be better at aerobics if there were swords involved or wished the rowing machine might plunge you into a stealthy spec ops mission, then this list is for you.

www.meta.com

Stationary bikes:

This Oculus Quest 2 VR Fitness Game Is Compatible with Any Exercise Bike - HOLOFIT by Holodia

Use your indoor bike to ride through virtual worlds from the comfort of your home! Try Oculus Quest App for VR cycling - HOLOFIT.

www.holodia.com

and there is a whole cottage industry for combating and dealing with that issue:

Amazon product ASIN B0B674RG36
Amazon product ASIN B08MFN3Y6C
Amazon product ASIN B0BBGD9YJ6
Amazon product ASIN B0BFBHT1TP
Amazon product ASIN B0BLTVM8P6
Amazon product ASIN B0BLBMXH6B

EDIT: weird - it won't let me link to products but if you go to Amazon and do a search for "Quest 2 sweat" you'll pull up all manner of attachable fans and vents, silicon covers, and face masks to help deal with this.

Anyway, I'd be more interested in hearing how people who have tried using it to train on stationary bikes feel about it than people just imagining it.

Having done exercise stuff, there is an adjustment period but once you are used to it, it's nothing like I imagined it would be.

Not trying to say there are no problems or issues here and things are definitely a ways away from the perfect setup but I'm seeing a lot of posts from people in this discussion who seem to have pretty strong opinions on things they apparently have never actually tried, themselves.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I’m hearing some wild stuff from a couple of sources.

Apple is looking to acquire Disney as a way to drive the Vision Pro adaptation.

I’m waiting to hear back from someone for more confirmation.

Watch Disney stock price if it starts to shoot up for no apparent reason there is smoke.

There is at this point at least talks that took place.

The chances of this happening I would say are very slim but certainly something to keep an eye on.

I would be shocked if this happened, however there could be some win wins if it did. Could be.

Apple TV, Disney+, Hulu come to mind
In park tech (different than anywhere else)
Etc

 

[Tha Realest]

Not sure I can trust the review of an Apple product from anyone who starts their username with a lowercaes "i".

Just sayin'

Whoa whoa whoa next you’re going to tell me I should look critically any those influencers who just happen to be invited to every Disney event and whose criticism is nonexistent

 

[lazyboy97o]

In the case of the iPhone, the smartphone market didn't exist so it was untested.

As I said elsewhere, the iPhone was a better version of an existing thing.

Only after saying they didn’t exist. You’re not even keeping your story straight. You’re spinning around trying to project your personal disinterest onto everyone else.

 

[MrPromey]

Whoa whoa whoa next you’re going to tell me I should look critically any those influencers who just happen to be invited to every Disney event and whose criticism is nonexistent

Nah, those are totally legit.

Take all of them at face value!