Disney to announce overhaul of DL Tomorrowland at D23?

[Disney Irish]

Do we have an idea when this potential New Tomorrowland/Peoplemover might open? I just realized I hadn't really thought about it before, but the way Disney moves these days it could be 2025 before any of this even hits the park . . . which would be better than never, but still put a slight damper on things.

Depends on the scope of the project and if they start fairly soon.

If its just the Peoplemover my guess is mid to late 2024.

If its a more of an extensive TL redo, depending on if they do phases or not, late 2025 is probably more likely. But 2026-2027 would be for a partial to complete tear down and rebuild, but that is less likely in my opinion.

 

[Disney Irish]

Cynthia Harris said the ride damaged the infrastructure when she announced its closure. This means the track and supports need extensive repair.

I'm beginning to think those reports were a little overblown, and just an excuse used to close an attraction rather than fix it. As thinking about it logically if there really was that much damage done where its a safety issue, enough to close down an attraction, would they really leave the track just sitting there hovering over the guests and CMs heads for 20+ years? What about OSHA, would they have allowed it? Probably not.

So me thinks this report of track and support damage is false, or at least very overblown.

 

[tcool123]

Cynthia Harris said the ride damaged the infrastructure when she announced its closure. This means the track and supports need extensive repair.

Also if anyone doesn't know the Rocket Rods removed the speed tunnel when it was put in, in its place are lame fiber optic effects.

What misplaced IP is going to be assigned to the people mover? Iron Man?

Why not Wall-E tiea into this moving chairs that humans rode in the film

 

[CaptinEO]

I'm beginning to think those reports were a little overblown, and just an excuse used to close an attraction rather than fix it. As thinking about it logically if there really was that much damage done where its a safety issue, enough to close down an attraction, would they really leave the track just sitting there hovering over the guests and CMs heads for 20+ years? What about OSHA, would they have allowed it? Probably not.

So me thinks this report of track and support damage is false, or at least very overblown.

I don't think Cynthia Harris would make up an excuse that makes herself and her company she was representing look bad. They didn't need a reason to close it and wasted a lot of money making the ride and queue (but didnt spend enough to do it right, otherwise the ride would still be here).

There's also a difference between the tracks and supports having solid structural integrity to stand unused vs being able to take the beating of continually speeding and braking heavy rollercoaster cars riding on them day after day.
Fun fact, the Rocket Rods underground tunnel that connects the current Buzz Lightyear giftshop (former Circle vision building) to the People Mover loading platform is still there and still has the Rocket Rods theming. Disney actually used it in the 2010s as a queue for limited edition pins apparently:

Rocket Rods Queue

This tunnel beneath Tomorrowland, once used as the Rocket Rods queue and exit, is now used as a queue for pin releases.

www.flickr.com

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think Cynthia Harris would make up an excuse that makes herself and her company she was representing look bad. They didn't need a reason to close it and wasted a lot of money making the ride and queue (but didnt spend enough to do it right, otherwise the ride would still be here).

There's also a difference between the tracks and supports having solid structural integrity to stand unused vs being able to take the beating of continually speeding and braking heavy rollercoaster cars riding on them day after day.
Fun fact, the Rocket Rods underground tunnel that connects the current Buzz Lightyear giftshop (former Circle vision building) to the People Mover loading platform is still there and still has the Rocket Rods theming. Disney actually used it in the 2010s as a queue for limited edition pins apparently:

Rocket Rods Queue

This tunnel beneath Tomorrowland, once used as the Rocket Rods queue and exit, is now used as a queue for pin releases.

www.flickr.com

Well Martin posted this back in July (part of larger posts, only quoting the relevant parts):

I will say the track and supports were surveyed recently and they are still load bearing.

I also know the Peoplemover structure was surveyed recently-ish and that concluded it was still structurally viable.

I should’ve re worded it. Able to take a Peoplemover type attraction.

So if the structure and the tracks were recently surveyed and concluded they can handle the load of a Peoplemover type attraction one can only conclude that any report of structural damage made by Harris was overblown and not as severe as we were lead to believe.

 

[CaptinEO]

Well Martin posted this back in July (part of larger posts, only quoting the relevant parts):







So if the structure and the tracks were recently surveyed and concluded they can handle the load of a Peoplemover type attraction one can only conclude that any report of structural damage made by Harris was overblown and not as severe as we were lead to believe.

Very intetesting, guess we will know for sure if this is actually announced by seeing what work needs to be done. As it stands the track is set up for Rocket Rods so I'd imagine they need to redo the top of the tracks at the very least.

 

[chadwpalm]

Well Martin posted this back in July (part of larger posts, only quoting the relevant parts):







So if the structure and the tracks were recently surveyed and concluded they can handle the load of a Peoplemover type attraction one can only conclude that any report of structural damage made by Harris was overblown and not as severe as we were lead to believe.

Having worked as a drafter in a structural engineering firm for a few years, I learned that there are two types of load stresses. Load bearing (vertical load / weight) and lateral loads (horizontal). In a structure (like a home for example) the vertical load bearing is mainly from the roof and anything in the attic like a forced air unit. The lateral loads come from horizontal shaking like from an earthquake or high winds.

It was always my understanding, and I believe Tony Baxter mention this in a podcast when asked about it because he claimed his team worked on trying to get the PM back up and running, is that the use of the Rocket Rods introduced lateral loads on the track that it wasn't designed for due to all of the rapid acceleration and slowing down and non-banked turns. While there is no danger of the structure falling down randomly and MAYBE able to handle the weight of the vehicles, it probably wouldn't be safe to run vehicles on it without some retrofitting for lateral forces.

But beside all of that, he also mentioned the OSHA stuff where people would be able to touch the walls in the indoor sections unless the vehicles were caged and the need for evac stairways every so many feet on the outdoor sections. I'll try to dig up the specific podcast and timestamp when I have some free time.

 

[mickEblu]

Having worked as a drafter in a structural engineering firm for a few years, I learned that there are two types of load stresses. Load bearing (vertical load / weight) and lateral loads (horizontal). In a structure (like a home for example) the vertical load bearing is mainly from the roof and anything in the attic like a forced air unit. The lateral loads come from horizontal shaking like from an earthquake or high winds.

It was always my understanding, and I believe Tony Baxter mention this in a podcast when asked about it because he claimed his team worked on trying to get the PM back up and running, is that the use of the Rocket Rods introduced lateral loads on the track that it wasn't designed for due to all of the rapid acceleration and slowing down and non-banked turns. While there is no danger of the structure falling down randomly and MAYBE able to handle the weight of the vehicles, it probably wouldn't be safe to run vehicles on it without some retrofitting for lateral forces.

But beside all of that, he also mentioned the OSHA stuff where people would be able to touch the walls in the indoor sections unless the vehicles were caged and the need for evac stairways every so many feet on the outdoor sections. I'll try to dig up the specific podcast and timestamp when I have some free time.

Caged? Ugh. That would be ugly and terrible and really extinguish my enthusiasm for them coming back.

 

[Phroobar]

If they were enclosed, Disney would probably forget to include air conditioning like they did on the Monorail.

Who are the engineers that design these things? Would these things not been considered? If Tony Baxter's team were designing the Rocket Rods, why didn't they take lateral forces into consideration in the first place? How could an accountant remove money for the banked turns if it was a safety issue that Baxter's engineers knew about? The track would hold up but the vehicle would drive off the edge. Why did the vehicles have to be so huge? They looked like dragsters. Somebody screwed up their engineering numbers and Baxter approved it.

 

[Nland316]

Not trying to jinx anything, but it’s pretty wild that after years of TL rumors we might actually be getting something this week.

 

[Disney Irish]

Having worked as a drafter in a structural engineering firm for a few years, I learned that there are two types of load stresses. Load bearing (vertical load / weight) and lateral loads (horizontal). In a structure (like a home for example) the vertical load bearing is mainly from the roof and anything in the attic like a forced air unit. The lateral loads come from horizontal shaking like from an earthquake or high winds.

It was always my understanding, and I believe Tony Baxter mention this in a podcast when asked about it because he claimed his team worked on trying to get the PM back up and running, is that the use of the Rocket Rods introduced lateral loads on the track that it wasn't designed for due to all of the rapid acceleration and slowing down and non-banked turns. While there is no danger of the structure falling down randomly and MAYBE able to handle the weight of the vehicles, it probably wouldn't be safe to run vehicles on it without some retrofitting for lateral forces.

But beside all of that, he also mentioned the OSHA stuff where people would be able to touch the walls in the indoor sections unless the vehicles were caged and the need for evac stairways every so many feet on the outdoor sections. I'll try to dig up the specific podcast and timestamp when I have some free time.

All I can say is that if Peoplemover is coming back that all that stuff, Load Bearing vs Lateral Load issues, OSHA, etc., will have been resolved or was overblown to begin with. Either way it doesn't matter as long as Peoplemover comes back and stays. All the rest is just color for the discussions I'm sure that'll be had for the duration of the project.

 

[Disney Irish]

Caged? Ugh. That would be ugly and terrible and really extinguish my enthusiasm for them coming back.

If they use an enclosed car like the prototype pic that I provided earlier it would actually be cool looking.

 

[mickEblu]

If they use an enclosed car like the prototype pic that I provided earlier it would actually be cool looking.

I want fresh air though.

 

[Dear Prudence]

It's just kinda wild to me that we're talking about millions of views from millions of people are being a non-number, ...like if you had a million humans in front of you IRL.....

 

[chadwpalm]

If they were enclosed, Disney would probably forget to include air conditioning like they did on the Monorail.

Who are the engineers that design these things? Would these things not been considered? If Tony Baxter's team were designing the Rocket Rods, why didn't they take lateral forces into consideration in the first place? How could an accountant remove money for the banked turns if it was a safety issue that Baxter's engineers knew about? The track would hold up but the vehicle would drive off the edge. Why did the vehicles have to be so huge? They looked like dragsters. Somebody screwed up their engineering numbers and Baxter approved it.

I just re-listened to the section of the podcast where he talks about it. The entire Tomorrowland 1998 budget (for the entire land) was the same as for Indiana Jones (a single ride). New management had just come in and was still green on how things worked in theme parks. Tony's team had to decide how to work with so little money, so 1/4 of the budget went to Rocket Rods (that's 1/4 of IJA), 1/4 to getting the carousel building turning again, 1/4 to put the 4D effects in the theater for Honey, and 1/4 for atmosphere, fountains, and Astro Orbiter.

Tony said if he had to do it again he would have rather put the whole budget on one good attraction. There were a lot of plans for Rocket Rods that fell away because of budget. You would design your own vehicle and be superimposed into a picture with it and the vehicles would light up like a wireframe at night. Whether they were aware the structure of the tracks were going to decay due to stresses he didn't say, but that's primarily why it closed.

Along with what I already mentioned about OSHA, he also said that they would require an elevator now for ADA and can't just rely on speed ramps like before.

 

[CaptinEO]

If they were enclosed, Disney would probably forget to include air conditioning like they did on the Monorail.

Who are the engineers that design these things? Would these things not been considered? If Tony Baxter's team were designing the Rocket Rods, why didn't they take lateral forces into consideration in the first place? How could an accountant remove money for the banked turns if it was a safety issue that Baxter's engineers knew about? The track would hold up but the vehicle would drive off the edge. Why did the vehicles have to be so huge? They looked like dragsters. Somebody screwed up their engineering numbers and Baxter approved it.

Not sure what Tony's full position was, sounds like the company took a risk with not using banked tracks due to having a limited budget and it didn't work out.

This was a really bad era for management. Both Rocket Rods and Superstar Limo were shutdown almost as soon as they opened .We even had deaths from the Columbia and Big Thunder. It's amazing we didn't have someone fall off Rocket Rods given the circumstances and people in charge.

 

[mickEblu]

Tony said if he had to do it again he would have rather put the whole budget on one good attraction.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but this is always the right choice. So that’s why when it came to Pixar Pier they learned their lesson and….wait.

 

[chadwpalm]

All I can say is that if Peoplemover is coming back that all that stuff, Load Bearing vs Lateral Load issues, OSHA, etc., will have been resolved or was overblown to begin with. Either way it doesn't matter as long as Peoplemover comes back and stays. All the rest is just color for the discussions I'm sure that'll be had for the duration of the project.

Resolved how? If there truly was structural issues they would have to reinforce pylons with more rebar more than likely having to tear down and repour concrete as well as shore up the foundations in the same way, and that's just the outside track. We have no idea the extent of any damage in the indoor portions or how much it would effect the buildings to fix them. To my knowledge this hasn't been addressed and it is a LOT of money just to bring back one nostalgic attraction.

Overblown? If anyone would put their heart into bringing the PM back it would be Tony. He's the first to admit that RR was an underbudgeted mistake and would love to rectify it by bringing the PM back. I have no doubt he did the full gambit of research and discussions with experts. What reason would he have to lie or at the least overblow his explanations?

The only way the PM is coming back is if they tear down the track, replace it with a new one that had evac stairs/elevators every so many yards, place an elevator at the turn table, completely retrofit the indoor portions to either widen them or do enclosed vehicles (yuck). It's a pipe dream. After 25 years this isn't finally "the one" no matter how many "insiders" hint at it.

As I said before, I'd humbly eat crow if this got announced next weekend.

I feel like I've written this exact same post 5 times over the last 10 years

 

[chadwpalm]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but this is always the right choice. So that’s why when it came to Pixar Pier they learned their lesson and….wait.

Lol, Tony learned his lesson.....Disney management on the other hand....

 

[Stevek]

a good reminder to watch the video I put together with the attraction music