Disney to announce overhaul of DL Tomorrowland at D23?

[mickEblu]

Bringing back the Peoplemover is perfect because

1. It isn't taking anything away.
2. It hearkens back to pre 1998 Tomorrowland.
3. It's high capacity, relaxing, and a good 'diversion'.
4. It would add kinetic energy to the park.
5. It would hopefully be accompanied by getting the Rocket Jets back up where they belong.

Not holding my breath for the “Rocket Jets” going back on the platform but really hoping. Maybe we can take some comfort in the fact that they never finished the entrance we saw in the concept art.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Not holding my breath for the “Rocket Jets” going back on the platform but really hoping. Maybe we can take some comfort in the fact that they never finished the entrance we saw in the concept art.

I was thinking the same thing- perhaps that's what the hold up is? It will be interesting to see what they show at D23.

But also, I have zero confidence in today's Disney to do Tomorrowland justice. It's a legendary land- and it's a Walt land- so it has to be executed perfectly. They couldn't even execute a Star Wars land properly- how can they execute a land with far more abstract themes?

The only thing I trust them to do is put a Peoplemover back on that track and move the Rocket Jets back.

 

[mickEblu]

I was thinking the same thing- perhaps that's what the hold up is? It will be interesting to see what they show at D23.

But also, I have zero confidence in today's Disney to do Tomorrowland justice. It's a legendary land- and it's a Walt land- so it has to be executed perfectly. They couldn't even execute a Star Wars land properly- how can they execute a land with far more abstract themes?

The only thing I trust them to do is put a Peoplemover back on that track and move the Rocket Jets back.

Right that’s why I’m hoping it’s not a complete ReDo and that they re just adding the PeopleMover, moving the Spinner, fixing the entrance and whatever other cosmetic stuff they want to do. I’m good with a restaurant going where Launch Bay is too.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Right that’s why I’m hoping it’s not a complete ReDo and that they re just adding the PeopleMover, moving the Spinner, fixing the entrance and whatever other cosmetic stuff they want to do. I’m good with a restaurant going where Launch Bay is too.

I'll love to have People Mover back at DL. It'll feel like 1967's Tomorrowland.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I was thinking the same thing- perhaps that's what the hold up is? It will be interesting to see what they show at D23.

But also, I have zero confidence in today's Disney to do Tomorrowland justice. It's a legendary land- and it's a Walt land- so it has to be executed perfectly. They couldn't even execute a Star Wars land properly- how can they execute a land with far more abstract themes?

The only thing I trust them to do is put a Peoplemover back on that track and move the Rocket Jets back.

This is part of why I get nervous any time someone suggests razing Tomorrowland except for Space Mountain and just starting again. The bones of the land aren't bad - in fact, the bones of the land are nearly the only part anyone likes anymore. Put some meat on them - open a new Peoplemover, put some sort of Rocket Jet back on top of the tower and you're already a long way to making this place exciting again. While I think it'd sort of be a shame to lose the Carousel Theater, if they ripped it out, put something genuinely awesome in its place, and then updated the aesthetic of the land the place could be fantastic.

Bonus points if they want to replace Buzz and Star Tours with great new experieces that fit the theme, but short of that a new Tomorrowland could still be great using much of what's already there. Unless they have a truly spectacular and radical new idea of what a Tomorrowland could be, the current layout isn't really what's holding it back. It's that it's so poorly used.

 

[britain]

The bones aren’t… bad… but if you’re including Starcade and the whole Space Mt exterior queue experience, the structures are horribly dated. They’re the sort of thing that, yeah, they aren’t falling apart, but stucco? Tile? Black rectangular frames around windows?

 

[Consumer]

This is the ideal Tomorrowland. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

The bones aren’t… bad… but if you’re including Starcade and the whole Space Mt exterior queue experience, the structures are horribly dated. They’re the sort of thing that, yeah, they aren’t falling apart, but stucco? Tile? Black rectangular frames around windows?

I said in my post that the land could stand to get an aesthetic overhaul. But a new exterior is different than demolishing the buildings. I wouldn't mind them strategically losing some structures in favor of new and better architecture, but it's not like reducing everything outside Space Mountain to rubble will suddenly solve all of Tomorrowland's problems. They've still got to invent compelling stuff to put in that space, and you can do that without complete demo.

They've run into that issue now in EPCOT where they tore down buildings that were perfectly good but underutilized, only to end up deciding that was kind of a mistake. Now they're spending money to build back a more basic version of a building they already had, except now it will house . . . still very little.

They have a Substance issue, not a Structural one.

 

[Nland316]

I think any new facade architecture should follow Tokyo’s lead with their most recent additions to TL. They have the perfect modernized aesthetic of the midcentury/googie look. It would suit our land very well.

 

[mickEblu]

The bones aren’t… bad… but if you’re including Starcade and the whole Space Mt exterior queue experience, the structures are horribly dated. They’re the sort of thing that, yeah, they aren’t falling apart, but stucco? Tile? Black rectangular frames around windows?

I’d be ok with these areas being rethought although the Space Mountain exterior queue does have a certain charm in a 70s mall kind of way. Pictures of Future World at Epcot remind me of the Space Mountain entrance/ ramp/ exterior queue.

 

[BrianLo]

For all the talk that fans are impossible to please, there are at least a couple moves they could make that would recieve near-universal praise.

Provided they don't screw it up somehow, the return of The Peoplemover would be one of them.

What the greater membership of this board has difficulties accepting too is that D23 takes place on Disneyland's doorstep. They *could* pretend Florida simply doesn't exist, announce a long requested Disneyland project and the conference would be very well received by the attendees.

 

[Californian Elitist]

What the greater membership of this board has difficulties accepting too is that D23 takes place on Disneyland's doorstep. They *could* pretend Florida simply doesn't exist, announce a long requested Disneyland project and the conference would be very well received by the attendees.

According to some WDW fans, the company already pretends they and the resort don’t exist.

 

[BrianLo]

I also think this is very cute and wouldn't look inappropriate wedged between Matterhorn and Small World.

 

[PiratesMansion]

According to some WDW fans, the company already pretends they and the resort don’t exist.

They're not entirely wrong.

The company seems content to rake in the $$ from WDW while skimping on maintenance, show quality, and so on there.

There's also been a decided tendency to erase Florida-specific design decisions in favor of replications of DLR design decisions whether or not it makes any sense within the context of the FL environment: http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2012/02/on-integrity.html

And of course, the 50th. For its 50th, Disneyland received lavish refurbishments, a new parade, and Remember. WDW got statues, some food and merch, and a paint-by-numbers fireworks show that has nothing to do with the park or resort. Heck, they could've just stolen Celebrate! Tokyo Disneyland and just swapped out the ride audio, but no, they chose generic-R-us Disney fireworks show # 33 instead. This is all the more striking to me at the moment because I just got back from an evening at Kings Island, which is also celebrating its 50th right now and has put up historical timelines and pictures, refurbished a lot of attractions and areas, and put in a lot of entertainment, including a stage show modeled after a defunct dark ride and a fireworks show that pays tribute to park history with modest projection mapping and drones! Of course the scale is much smaller, but it's clear that people at Kings Island care about their park's history, and there's no evidence that the same is true of WDW, or at least among anyone in a position of significant power.

It's VERY clear they have no idea what to do with Epcot and have no real respect for what that park represented.

So while it's easy to look at all of the additions they've gotten over the past decade and conclude that the WDW fanbois are wrong, there's plenty of evidence that the resort still is stuck in Disneyland's shadow, the only one in the world for which that's really true. It's easy to conclude there's no vision or appreciation for what WDW was, is, and could be besides just the company's ATM.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

I really don't get the people saying Disney "ignores WDW". Complaints about maintenence and show quality are valid, but WDW is the company's flagship resort and the most visited vacation destination in the world. They just spent (and are still spending) billions on major additions to all four parks the likes of which haven't been at the resort in decades.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I really don't get the people saying Disney "ignores WDW". Complaints about maintenence and show quality are valid, but WDW is the company's flagship resort and the most visited vacation destination in the world. They just spent (and are still spending) billions on major additions to all four parks the likes of which haven't been at the resort in decades.

You just answered your own question - "the likes of which haven't been at the resort in decades".

The reason they've spent so much money in WDW the last few years (and still managed not to solve so many of the resort's problems) is because they spent the first decade+ of Iger's tenure hugely under-investing in the company's flagship resort. Meanwhile the other Disney resorts around the world were getting some nice investments, and the competition up the street in Florida started to really find their footing.

They had to play catch up, and they're still playing.

 

[Californian Elitist]

They're not entirely wrong.

The company seems content to rake in the $$ from WDW while skimping on maintenance, show quality, and so on there.

There's also been a decided tendency to erase Florida-specific design decisions in favor of replications of DLR design decisions whether or not it makes any sense within the context of the FL environment: http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2012/02/on-integrity.html

And of course, the 50th. For its 50th, Disneyland received lavish refurbishments, a new parade, and Remember. WDW got statues, some food and merch, and a paint-by-numbers fireworks show that has nothing to do with the park or resort. Heck, they could've just stolen Celebrate! Tokyo Disneyland and just swapped out the ride audio, but no, they chose generic-R-us Disney fireworks show # 33 instead. This is all the more striking to me at the moment because I just got back from an evening at Kings Island, which is also celebrating its 50th right now and has put up historical timelines and pictures, refurbished a lot of attractions and areas, and put in a lot of entertainment, including a stage show modeled after a defunct dark ride and a fireworks show that pays tribute to park history with modest projection mapping and drones! Of course the scale is much smaller, but it's clear that people at Kings Island care about their park's history, and there's no evidence that the same is true of WDW, or at least among anyone in a position of significant power.

It's VERY clear they have no idea what to do with Epcot and have no real respect for what that park represented.

So while it's easy to look at all of the additions they've gotten over the past decade and conclude that the WDW fanbois are wrong, there's plenty of evidence that the resort still is stuck in Disneyland's shadow, the only one in the world for which that's really true. It's easy to conclude there's no vision or appreciation for what WDW was, is, and could be besides just the company's ATM.

I definitely agree that WDW’s 50th is lackluster, and that, in ways, MK in particular, it lives in Disneyland’s shadow. It doesn’t seem like the folks running WDW appreciate and value their own history. With that being said, and I said this in another thread, I don’t think TDO is purposefully jipping their fans. I think they believe they’re giving fans what they want (for the most part) and that they’re genuinely catering to their audience.

After being a member of this site for 10 years, I have definitely noticed differences between the fan bases on each coast. Disneyland fans tend to be more traditional and outspoken, and love nostalgic things, especially if they call back to the park’s very early years. They also take pride in the history of the park and it’s connection to Walt Disney (quality over quantity). WDW fans tend to take pride in things related to size and numbers (size of the resort, size of Cindy castle, number of hotel, number of parks, etc.), and emphasize the fact that WDW is a vacation destination (quantity over quality). Now that I’ve been on WDW property, I’ll say that it does feel more corporate. Although DL has gotten more corporate in some areas, it still feels like a mom and pop theme park, overall.

I theorize that WDW’s large size, seemingly disinterest in its own history and nostalgia, vacation destination status, and corporate feel have in turn backfired and created what we’re seeing now. I’m not surprised that both DL’s 50th and 60th anniversaries were way more elaborate than WDW’s current 50th, and if I’m being honest, I saw a lackluster celebration coming from miles away. I had a strong feeling that it wouldn’t hold up anywhere near DL’s. Not only is the nostalgia thing not there, but it doesn’t seem like the fans demand the quality on a consistent basis. Some definitely do, but maybe they’re outnumbered by the vast majority, who likely don’t care/don’t visit the parks as often? I don’t know.

The WDW fans who do care about quality need a louder voice, but maybe there aren’t enough of them. I’m reminded of when the DL Main Street Cinema was temporarily turned into a shop for a few hours before DL fans shamed and metaphorically stoned whomever was behind that decision, resulting in the removal of the shop a few days layers. So far, I haven’t seen that kind of influence from WDW fans, personally. When the focus is mainly on size and numbers and not quality, then I guess this is what folks get: a very corporate Disney resort that lacks substance. Some people joke about DLR’s small size, but I would argue it’s been more of a blessing than WDW’s large size has been. Disneyland has, in ways, benefited from its smaller size, and it definitely benefits from being the original park. Because it’s the first, I think more care is taken and it is arguably more valued, at least if we’re comparing park to park.

 

[mlayton144]

I definitely agree that WDW’s 50th is lackluster, and that, in ways, MK in particular, it lives in Disneyland’s shadow. It doesn’t seem like the folks running WDW appreciate and value their own history. With that being said, and I said this in another thread, I don’t think TDO is purposefully jipping their fans. I think they believe they’re giving fans what they want (for the most part) and that they’re genuinely catering to their audience.

After being a member of this site for 10 years, I have definitely noticed differences between the fan bases on each coast. Disneyland fans tend to be more traditional and outspoken, and love nostalgic things, especially if they call back to the park’s very early years. They also take pride in the history of the park and it’s connection to Walt Disney (quality over quantity). WDW fans tend to take pride in things related to size and numbers (size of the resort, size of Cindy castle, number of hotel, number of parks, etc.), and emphasize the fact that WDW is a vacation destination (quantity over quality). Now that I’ve been on WDW property, I’ll say that it does feel more corporate. Although DL has gotten more corporate in some areas, it still feels like a mom and pop theme park, overall.

I theorize that WDW’s large size, seemingly disinterest in its own history and nostalgia, vacation destination status, and corporate feel have in turn backfired and created what we’re seeing now. I’m not surprised that both DL’s 50th and 60th anniversaries were way more elaborate than WDW’s current 50th, and if I’m being honest, I saw a lackluster celebration coming from miles away. I had a strong feeling that it wouldn’t hold up anywhere near DL’s. Not only is the nostalgia thing not there, but it doesn’t seem like the fans demand the quality on a consistent basis. Some definitely do, but maybe they’re outnumbered by the vast majority, who likely don’t care/don’t visit the parks as often? I don’t know.

The WDW fans who do care about quality need a louder voice, but maybe there aren’t enough of them. I’m reminded of when the DL Main Street Cinema was temporarily turned into a shop for a few hours before DL fans shamed and metaphorically stoned whomever was behind that decision, resulting in the removal of the shop a few days layers. So far, I haven’t seen that kind of influence from WDW fans, personally. When the focus is mainly on size and numbers and not quality, then I guess this is what folks get: a very corporate Disney resort that lacks substance. Some people joke about DLR’s small size, but I would argue it’s been more of a blessing than WDW’s large size has been. Disneyland has, in ways, benefited from its smaller size, and it definitely benefits from being the original park. Because it’s the first, I think more care is taken and it is arguably more valued, at least if we’re comparing park to park.

Honest question - Where exactly is this huge Disneyland fan base and how do they provide this feedback? The best and biggest DLR board that I’m aware of is right here , and there seem to be about 50 people that post here? Does this group represent the most prototypical DLR customer? Thousands and thousands of posters and bloggers on the WDW side , plus other sites.


I think the bottom line is that each of the resorts cater to different audiences and Disney mgmt knows this - DLR locals who come way more often and repeat the same things over and over so they better lean more on nostalgia and little details , and WDW who caters to new and less frequent vacationers that want a longer and more complete vacation experience - smaller details will never be a priority nor does the average vacationer care. With those demographics/markets of course you are going to prioritize your investments differently.

 

[shambolicdefending]

Honest question - Where exactly is this huge Disneyland fan base and how do they provide this feedback? The best and biggest DLR board that I’m aware of is right here , and there seem to be about 50 people that post here? Does this group represent the most prototypical DLR customer? Thousands and thousands of posters and bloggers on the WDW side , plus other sites.

There isn't any place on the internet that represents true reality of public opinion, but DLR is probably more active on Twitter and the vlogosphere than any message board.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Honest question - Where exactly is this huge Disneyland fan base and how do they provide this feedback? The best and biggest DLR board that I’m aware of is right here , and there seem to be about 50 people that post here? Does this group represent the most prototypical DLR customer? Thousands and thousands of posters and bloggers on the WDW side , plus other sites.


I think the bottom line is that each of the resorts cater to different audiences and Disney mgmt knows this - DLR locals who come way more often and repeat the same things over and over so they better lean more on nostalgia and little details , and WDW who caters to new and less frequent vacationers that want a longer and more complete vacation experience - smaller details will never be a priority nor does the average vacationer care. With those demographics/markets of course you are going to prioritize your investments differently.

Regarding your first part, this sub-forum is definitely not the biggest group of DLR fans. At all. And I’m talking primarily Disneyland fans, not WDW fans that are planning DL trips. There aren’t 50 of us lol, nowhere near that. There are a handful…maybe 15-20 of us that are primarily “Disneylanders.” Maybe a bit more, but it’s not 50. With that being said, I would actually say that some of us do represent the typical Disneyland fan that I described. Keep in mind that I’m speaking in general terms. Not all DL fans are the same, not at all WDW fans are the same, of course, but there are consistent things that each group shares amongst themselves. Also, Disneyland fans are on social media, just like WDW fans. Regarding the Main Street Cinema incident, it was social media, specifically Twitter, that helped get that temporary shop removed.

Regarding your second part, yes, I agree. Disney is not purposefully giving WDW and its fans the shaft, just catering to the demographics.