'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

[Goofyernmost]

Con: you will have to bring your own underwater breathing gear with FL's water table. Pro: Subs are back at Disney World!

I was going to ask if the Subs were still out in the bone yard. That would have been a good use for them.

 

[Texas84]

While you don't need to want a national interconnected High-speed rail network, you absolutely do need a national interconnected conventional (79 to 110 mph) passenger rail network.

Why?

 

[Cody5242]

The pizza at Splitsville is superb. I like the location a lot and its a great place to watch sports

 

[Mouse Detective]

DTD (Disney springs) needs more restaraunts, etc....

What it didn't need was a confusing bowling-alley-food-mix-concept-that-is-hard-to-grasp-by-the-unfamiliar..
Splitsville is having a bit of a identity issue, but it should self-correct at some point...

Perhaps the expanded version of DTD will need more restaurant capacity but what stands today does not, IMO. As for Splitsville, I don't feel it has an identity crisis. As someone else posted, it's a restaurant with a bowling gimmick. I've haven't seen them do any advertising though so I don't doubt many guests on property are not aware that it's even there. And KingsBowl on I-Drive is about to duplicate their method of operation.

 

[71jason]

DTD (Disney springs) needs more restaraunts, etc..

I can see an argument on the "etc." but when the existing places (some very high quality) all have empty tables, and the new kid is struggling--why would you say they need more? I'm talking table service, not quick service, which they do desperately need.

 

[71jason]

What are the opinions on the food from people who have eaten there?

Haven't tried the sushi or pizza, but burgers/nachos are Applebees-quality, with standard DTD price inflation. The problem is they serve an adequate burger for $14--for $15, I can walk down to Raglan Road and get the best burger on property.

 

[71jason]

The question is whether people will come in to drink.

And the answer, based on the two busiest times of year, is "no," unless you're giving them a 20% CM discount.

I don't think Summer will do Splitsville any favors, either. Tends to be a downtime for WDW bars outside the parks, because (i) guests are in the parks until 1 a.m., (ii) more families than conventioneers, and (iii) local CMs are too busy working to go out.

 

[Mouse Detective]

I don't think Summer will do Splitsville any favors, either. Tends to be a downtime for WDW bars outside the parks, because (i) guests are in the parks until 1 a.m., (ii) more families than conventioneers, and (iii) local CMs are too busy working to go out.

Of course we really don't know yet how their first summer will be. But nearly every afternoon there will be thunderstorms from 4pm to 7pm and people seek out indoor activities. And for those here on a week long stay, there are always a couple days away from the parks and a need for something to do. So I think the bowling aspect will hold an attraction to many.

But if they're counting on liquor sales (and not the bowling) to drive their profits, they'd better figure out a way to draw people besides just the CM night. Their Thursday/Friday/Saturday DJ party turned out to be a bust, mainly because no one knew about it. They'll need way more advertising than just Facebook.

 

[articos]

And the answer, based on the two busiest times of year, is "no," unless you're giving them a 20% CM discount.

I don't think Summer will do Splitsville any favors, either. Tends to be a downtime for WDW bars outside the parks, because (i) guests are in the parks until 1 a.m., (ii) more families than conventioneers, and (iii) local CMs are too busy working to go out.

I tend to think you're right, but for other reasons. Summer is the time everyone's out of school, so they get locals, and it's the highest occupancy rates for an extended period on property with temps that both allow people to go out but still keeps them indoors once they're out. Even with more people staying late in the parks, with the sheer numbers combined with the above, summer is when we see how SV does on a regular basis with a higher number of people passing by the venue all day and into the night.

I don't think Splitsville did themselves any favors with their layout, and I think they simply didn't choose their market well. Bowling & booze would do better at CityWalk. You are right about families vs. conventioneers vs. adults only, and I think DTD will always do better with straight-up bars and restaurants that turn to bars after 10p, rather than mixed-purpose venues like SV that provide a product that is appropriate in a downtown situation, but not at DTD. Doesn't matter, as the other Splitsville locations will prop this one through the lease period if it's not able to draw the crowds.

Of course we really don't know yet how their first summer will be. But nearly every afternoon there will be thunderstorms from 4pm to 7pm and people seek out indoor activities. And for those here on a week long stay, there are always a couple days away from the parks and a need for something to do. So I think the bowling aspect will hold an attraction to many.

But if they're counting on liquor sales (and not the bowling) to drive their profits, they'd better figure out a way to draw people besides just the CM night. Their Thursday/Friday/Saturday DJ party turned out to be a bust, mainly because no one knew about it. They'll need way more advertising than just Facebook.

It may draw the folks who want to take a day off from the parks, but I think that's a minority. More they need to figure out how to draw people besides CM to become a watering hole. That's not dj nights, that's drink specials, marketing and stiff pours. In their normal locations, like in a downtown venue, you make plans with the co-workers or friends to meet up at a Splitsville and drink, have sushi, eat pizza, play pool and maybe bowl. That's not Downtown Disney.

 

[bhg469]

I propose an indoor range where you shoot fur characters with paintballs...

Its Florida, live ammunition is plentiful.

 

[Admiral01]

It doesn't look like it. It looks like 4 escalators. I've seen that. Heck, they have it in The Land Pavilion in EPCOT. Which always made me curious. Why are their stairs next to an escalator? As Mitch Hedberg said once “An escalator can never break: it can only become stairs. You would never see an Escalator Temporarily Out Of Order sign, just Escalator Temporarily Stairs. Sorry for the convenience.”

First, I realize the quote is meant as a funny thing, which it is.

Second, I used to think the exact same thing, until I had a family member tumble down a non-functional escalator. It turns out that escalator "stairs" are not the size of a normal step. Measure it if you ever get the chance. They are just a little bigger than a normal step and therefore are not as natural to walk up or down. Lawsuits occur from accidents on non-functional escalators (we did not sue anyone following the tumble). The metal edges of an escalator make them not fun to fall down. I've even been told not to walk on the escalator because of the danger...though I live in a city and would never not walk up or down if given the chance...especially from the Metro around all the tourists who don't know where they are going...

Also, stairs in The Land make sense if you want to walk down the stairs that run next to the up escalator.

 

[englanddg]

First, I realize the quote is meant as a funny thing, which it is.

Second, I used to think the exact same thing, until I had a family member tumble down a non-functional escalator. It turns out that escalator "stairs" are not the size of a normal step. Measure it if you ever get the chance. They are just a little bigger than a normal step and therefore are not as natural to walk up or down. Lawsuits occur from accidents on non-functional escalators (we did not sue anyone following the tumble). The metal edges of an escalator make them not fun to fall down. I've even been told not to walk on the escalator because of the danger...though I live in a city and would never not walk up or down if given the chance...especially from the Metro around all the tourists who don't know where they are going...

Also, stairs in The Land make sense if you want to walk down the stairs that run next to the up escalator.

I like that they are there. At busy times there is a wait for the rather small escalators...but never for the stairs!

 

[dcibrando]

Question: Do you think the major makeover to Disney Springs has put a nail in the coffin of Flamingo Crossings?

If so, could they now use that section of land for something else (5th park, lol)

 

[COProgressFan]

Question: Do you think the major makeover to Disney Springs has put a nail in the coffin of Flamingo Crossings?

If so, could they now use that section of land for something else (5th park, lol)

I think a few nails have already been put into that coffin, though I suppose if they really wanted to they could pry it open again years down the road.

At this point, Flamingo Crossings is all but dead, and I'm not sure Disney Springs had anything to do with it. To that, I say good riddance. It was a terrible idea in the first place based on overconfidence and pure greed.

 

[wdwmagic]

Question: Do you think the major makeover to Disney Springs has put a nail in the coffin of Flamingo Crossings?

If so, could they now use that section of land for something else (5th park, lol)

Flamingo was a very different project. It is/was based around low cost hotels (Hampton Inn etc), more main stream dining and retail. Something that could be used by cast members, and guests wanting a near to Disney off-site base. Disney Springs is obviously not hotels, and is looking to provide high-end, unique dining and retail.

 

[71jason]

Of course we really don't know yet how their first summer will be. But nearly every afternoon there will be thunderstorms from 4pm to 7pm and people seek out indoor activities.

But they pop up fast, and are so short most just ride them out in the park. By the time you catch a bus and get over to DTD, sunny again. Now if a tropical storm passes over, different story. But I don't see the Summer doing them any huge favors.

And for those here on a week long stay, there are always a couple days away from the parks and a need for something to do. So I think the bowling aspect will hold an attraction to many.

This is basically what I alluded to in the second part of my post. People on those couple days away from the parks are not looking to spend a ton of dough. If they were, they'd just add another day in the parks (or try Potter or Sea World). I-Drive was built on appealing to these guests--Wonder Works, the CSI thing, pirate mini golf, ice cream shops. Things you can pair with half a day at the pool that don't cost a lot.

I think a lot of guests pull into DTD expecting a Disneyized version of this. But I think DQ and Splitsville and the art galleries and a lot of the restaurants are priced too high to take advantage of this crowd. Wetzels does great. Walk-up bars do well. But for all the people, you don't see that many people carrying bags. The most bags you do see are from Lego, which combines a free play area and photo ops with a shop selling some reasonable priced toys (alongside the $100 sets). I think the Lego store is the ideal DTD tenant, but I don't see much in the plans to attempt to replicate this model.

 

[71jason]

It may draw the folks who want to take a day off from the parks, but I think that's a minority. More they need to figure out how to draw people besides CM to become a watering hole. That's not dj nights, that's drink specials, marketing and stiff pours. In their normal locations, like in a downtown venue, you make plans with the co-workers or friends to meet up at a Splitsville and drink, have sushi, eat pizza, play pool and maybe bowl. That's not Downtown Disney.

I think you nailed it here. They completely misread the market. This probably would even if worked were PI still open next door, but not given the current demographics.

 

[Ignohippo]

Question: Do you think the major makeover to Disney Springs has put a nail in the coffin of Flamingo Crossings?

If so, could they now use that section of land for something else (5th park, lol)

No. If anything, if Disney Springs proves to be a huge success, that would accelerate the rebirth of FC. As Steve said, the demographics and target audiences are somewhat different. Disney Springs is upscale retail, entertainment and dining. On the other hand, Flamingo Crossings was low-budget hotels, fast food, and everyday retail (groceries, drug stores and the touristy types of things you'd find along I-Drive).

 

[articos]

Flamingo was a very different project. It is/was based around low cost hotels (Hampton Inn etc), more main stream dining and retail. Something that could be used by cast members, and guests wanting a near to Disney off-site base. Disney Springs is obviously not hotels, and is looking to provide high-end, unique dining and retail.

Right. FC is a pure real estate play. Plan it, put the infrastructure in, sell. That's it. It's quick money, and gives a modicum of control over how the world directly outside the west gate looks, so it doesn't end up tacky strip mall central.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Bowling & booze would do better at CityWalk.

What makes you say that?

Disney Springs is upscale retail, entertainment and dining. On the other hand, Flamingo Crossings was low-budget hotels, fast food, and everyday retail (groceries, drug stores and the touristy types of things you'd find along I-Drive).

Since no operators have taken Disney up on this venture, I have to continue to assume that this is a bust.