'Disney Springs' - Downtown Disney expansion officially announced

[Ignohippo]

Since no operators have taken Disney up on this venture, I have to continue to assume that this is a bust.

Which venture is a bust?

You have no way of knowing who is lined up for DS. Just because they haven't announced any tenants, doesn't mean there aren't any. There's no way they would plan, and move forward with, this expansion if a huge portion weren't already leased or promised.

As for FC, it's more than a bust. It's dead as a doornail and has been for years. That doesn't mean it always will be however. It's a good idea, and eventually it will happen.

 

[articos]

What makes you say that?

Better location to take advantage of employees and locals and I-Drive, CityWalk feels more of an adult place to drink with Margaritaville, Pat O's, the clubs, etc...Still has captive hotels surrounding, closer to CW than the hotels at Disney...Restaurants like Raglan do fine at DTD, as opposed to restaurants like Splitsville. I'm going to get ragged on for this, I'm sure, but when you walk into a entertainment zone or space, there's a vibe to them. CW "feels" more Splitsville, and therefore attracts a clientele that is more likely to spend time drinking and hanging out, whereas DTD doesn't.

 

[MarkTwain]

Better location to take advantage of employees and locals and I-Drive, CityWalk feels more of an adult place to drink with Margaritaville, Pat O's, the clubs, etc...Still has captive hotels surrounding, closer to CW than the hotels at Disney...Restaurants like Raglan do fine at DTD, as opposed to restaurants like Splitsville. I'm going to get ragged on for this, I'm sure, but when you walk into a entertainment zone or space, there's a vibe to them. CW "feels" more Splitsville, and therefore attracts a clientele that is more likely to spend time drinking and hanging out, whereas DTD doesn't.

In that case I would argue that Disney's best strategy would be to bring more of CityWalk's nighttime energy to Downtown Disney. Not only would it please more of Disney's adult guests but it could help several of the DtD businesses as well.

 

[articos]

@MarkTwain I wholeheartedly agree with you. And that is the intent of part of the revamped Springs, but I'm not sure it it will actually make a difference. Have to wait and see.

 

[MarkTwain]

@MarkTwain I wholeheartedly agree with you. And that is the intent of part of the revamped Springs, but I'm not sure it it will actually make a difference. Have to wait and see.

I think it's largely a matter of picking the right businesses. If they're going to insist on outsourcing, then they need to make sure they're bringing in more Raglans and Splitsvilles, and not just stores and stores/restaurants that'll close up at 9pm. They can't just build the facades, have them filled by whoever pays the lease, and hope they're the right businesses to sustain nightlife.

Also I fixed the formatting error that made my last post unquotable. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

But they pop up fast, and are so short most just ride them out in the park. By the time you catch a bus and get over to DTD, sunny again. Now if a tropical storm passes over, different story. But I don't see the Summer doing them any huge favors.



This is basically what I alluded to in the second part of my post. People on those couple days away from the parks are not looking to spend a ton of dough. If they were, they'd just add another day in the parks (or try Potter or Sea World). I-Drive was built on appealing to these guests--Wonder Works, the CSI thing, pirate mini golf, ice cream shops. Things you can pair with half a day at the pool that don't cost a lot.

I think a lot of guests pull into DTD expecting a Disneyized version of this. But I think DQ and Splitsville and the art galleries and a lot of the restaurants are priced too high to take advantage of this crowd. Wetzels does great. Walk-up bars do well. But for all the people, you don't see that many people carrying bags. The most bags you do see are from Lego, which combines a free play area and photo ops with a shop selling some reasonable priced toys (alongside the $100 sets). I think the Lego store is the ideal DTD tenant, but I don't see much in the plans to attempt to replicate this model.

Yes, I want "experiences" at DtD. The Lego store is sort of a walkthrough exhibit with all of the Lego statues, you can mess with the augmented reality boxes, and you can build with the kids. There's a lot to do. I think T-Rex does a nice job with this, also. They have geodes that start under $10 (I want to say it was like $6 in 2011), and their employee will put it in some kind of machine and let your kid pull the handle to crack it. They also have bags of dirt with fossils and/or minerals that the kids can pan through in a sluice box in the store. Again, the employees were involved and not just standing off to the side talking to each other. They were very cool experiences for maybe $12 total per kid. I would love more little things like this at DtD.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Haven't tried the sushi or pizza, but burgers/nachos are Applebees-quality, with standard DTD price inflation. The problem is they serve an adequate burger for $14--for $15, I can walk down to Raglan Road and get the best burger on property.

Ragland Road is the best thing about Downtown Disney period in my opinion

 

[lazyboy97o]

There's no way they would plan, and move forward with, this expansion if a huge portion weren't already leased or promised.

To be fair, they did move forward twice before without securing anything.

CW "feels" more Splitsville, and therefore attracts a clientele that is more likely to spend time drinking and hanging out, whereas DTD doesn't.

I think this can be demonstrated just by how the Splitsville in Downtown Disney operates. Would anybody bat an eye if it was located at CityWalk and maintained the 21+ restriction at night?

 

[71jason]

In that case I would argue that Disney's best strategy would be to bring more of CityWalk's nighttime energy to Downtown Disney. Not only would it please more of Disney's adult guests but it could help several of the DtD businesses as well.

While I like your idea in theory, I think the end times of PI proved you can't really mix "nighttime energy" with the "cheap day out of the parks" vibe I mentioned above. I think both are vital to WDW but I don't think they have to be together. In fact, it might be better if they feel like two discreet, separate areas (i.e. not even shared parking/buses).

The brilliance of CityWalk--that Disney never got--is that it separated the family-friendly venues from nightlife strip using geography. Kids can go to Hard Rock or NBA or the surf shop but can't go up the escalator to the where the grown-up fun is. It's technically all "CityWalk" but there are distinctive areas within that.

 

[TimeTrip]

Which venture is a bust?

You have no way of knowing who is lined up for DS. Just because they haven't announced any tenants, doesn't mean there aren't any. There's no way they would plan, and move forward with, this expansion if a huge portion weren't already leased or promised.

As for FC, it's more than a bust. It's dead as a doornail and has been for years. That doesn't mean it always will be however. It's a good idea, and eventually it will happen.

I find it interesting that you say that about DS, where at the time most people would probably have said the same about FC which by your own admission is dead as a doornail.

 

[scpergj]

Its Florida, live ammunition is plentiful.

Some...having a bit of a time finding .40 S&W, though....

 

[Florida_is_hot]

There is absolutely nothing upscale about places like AMC, Splitsville, Planet Hollywood, the Disney Store etc...
Disney Springs brings more of the same but nothing upscale.

 

[Alexis]

When will they announce the new and upcoming restaurants and shops to be put in Disney Springs?
Will all of DTD be open throughout the entire construction process?

 

[Ignohippo]

To be fair, they did move forward twice before without securing anything.

Moved forward with what? They showed some pretty pics of HW but that was all. They never started construction. There is evidence that preliminary work has begun on DS.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Moved forward with what? They showed some pretty pics of HW but that was all. They never started construction. There is evidence that preliminary work has begun on DS.

1. The clubs were closed to make way for new tenants.
2. Demolition and earth work began for Hyperion Wharf.

There was also the work started over at Flamingo Crossings without tenants.

 

[Ignohippo]

I find it interesting that you say that about DS, where at the time most people would probably have said the same about FC which by your own admission is dead as a doornail.

FC was an extraordinary circumstance. No one could have foreseen the economic collapse that happened after infrastructure work had begun on FC. FC was certainly only one of millions of developments that didn't happen at the time.

If anything, you'd think TDO would have learned from what happened with FC and would make sure that history doesn't repeat itself. For them to start work on DS, it would more than likely indicate that tenants have been lined up.

As for HW, we don't know that it was as much of a debacle as it appears. Why would they double the size of the plans if there were no interest?

 

[Ignohippo]

1. The clubs were closed to make way for new tenants.
2. Demolition and earth work began for Hyperion Wharf.

There was also the work started over at Flamingo Crossings without tenants.

You're clutching at straws. The clubs were closed at PI because TDO wanted them closed. There was no comprehensive plan for the PI area at the time. They just wanted the clubs closed and hoped retail would eventually move in.

The demolition work happened because they wanted to re-route the path. That was going to happen regardless. There was no reason to keep those buildings around because they had been identified to not be part of any future plans.

As I said before, FC was a unique situation. More than likely, there were many tenants lined up but they pulled out when the economy tanked.

And, we don't know that tenants weren't lined up for HW. Since they've doubled the size of the plans, it's more likely that they had a better response than they had anticipated.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

When will they announce the new and upcoming restaurants and shops to be put in Disney Springs?
Will all of DTD be open throughout the entire construction process?

1. No one knows for sure, but hopefully they announce a few (that is restaurants and/or shops) at the Monstrous Summer press event in a couple weeks.
2. Yes, DTD will be open throughout the entire construction process. However, it will probably be a mess (walls up in many areas) during construction so you should plan accordingly when you visit that area during those time periods. Only thing that's for sure closing that will have guest impact is Captain Jacks.

(Fill free to correct me if I got this wrong)

 

[bhg469]

Some...having a bit of a time finding .40 S&W, though....

I just applied for a permit so I will be looking for it in about 13 more months.. Hooray NY

 

[George]

I don't know why everyone thinks tenancy is up in the air when we've already seen things like "Italian restaurant", "Burger Joint", "Cafe or Something Comparable", "Sports Bar" or "Lord of the Onion Rings or Another Place if We Run into Copyright Issues", etc. are all coming.