Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[drizgirl]

There's many things that never occurred to them, until it became obvious in hindsight. lol

That's really scary for a company installing a mass transit system.

 

[trainplane3]

I've reached my monthly quota.

just use a different browser

Incognito or clearing cookies for a specific site also work to get around "quotas".

 

[Janir]

Skyliner Party will roll out with a $49 price tag and a fabulous experience. After the google algorithms have all those details and positive reviews linked on the top 10 pages, the event will become $99, crowded and less offerings included.

12 people to a gondola and only 6 water packets per gondola. Opening the air vents will be an extra added cost item for the event.

 

[Vacationeer]

Incognito or clearing cookies for a specific site also work to get around "quotas".

NY Times got smart with the incognito mode

 

[Lilofan]

There's many things that never occurred to them, until it became obvious in hindsight. lol

I'd think it was obvious that people would abuse access to emergency packs so I'd plan for that by putting a warning that opening it will trigger an emergency alert.
Kinda of like fire exit doors that warn an alarm will go off but doesn't really, they just don't want people using that back door.

I have read some senior execs at Disney have been there 20,30,40 years. There maybe "blinders eyes" in the thought process since they have little to no experience working in another company other than WDW.

 

[trainplane3]

NY Times got smart with the incognito mode

Welp, time to VPN then.

 

[flynnibus]

That's really scary for a company installing a mass transit system.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say..

The system they have is not broken. They only have to see the numbers at max about 50-75ft... the lesson learned here was that it was difficult in the moment.. so its an easy thing to improve.

Think about it.. once you are inside the monorail you have even less information to tell someone where you are. Which car are you in, which monorail? It works today simply because the monorails are scarce.

The numbers are visible to both riders and outside folks.. it just could be better.

 

[Vacationeer]

Welp, time to VPN then.

I'm tempted now more than ever for many reasons!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Just a WAG on my part, but most gondolas worldwide are not low-flying cabins designed for from-the-ground rescues.

 

[ChrisFL]

I really wish I could have listened in on all of the meetings had between Disney and Dopplemayr

Did they discuss the numbers on the each Gondola?
Did Disney opt out of paying for some upgrades to the systems or emergency kits?
Were they promised something by Dopplemayr but not delivered, or delivered too late for opening?
Did they ever discuss putting up safety warnings that certain types of guests may want to ride the bus instead?
Is there a certain dispatch timing and push by Disney to get things done faster/more efficiently?

Edit: I wonder what Bob Gurr thinks of this

 

[WheelsUpRN]

I bet they don't do it. Seeing the numbers will make people wonder why they're there. But hopefully they'll put some sort of tracking system in place regardless.

It’s called a magic band!

 

[WheelsUpRN]

So in incidents like this, what exactly is the protocol? I assume once a CM mashes the E-Stop button they must remain hands off except to maybe give a safety spiel before calling management, Reedy Creek, etc. So we wait for them to arrive. So who's in charge then? Is there the Disney equivalent of an incident commander? Obviously the priority is disembarking all the guests safely. It seems to me that the Gondola system as laid out presents one of the most difficult and potentially dangerous evac procedures of anything else on property, given the requirement for specialized lifts and rappelling gear combined with the relative inaccessibility and sheer number of vehicles. Clearly it would be preferred to offload in the stations assuming the system can be safely operated. If I understand what happened, it seems in this case Reedy Creek responded to emergency calls which prevented the ride system from being evaluated and restarted which would have led to a much quicker unloading of the whole system. Just wondering who wins out when the mechanics get on the radio to say we can restart only to be told that RC has guys on ropes hanging from one the cabins so we have to wait.

Then again, maybe this falls under some OSHA or NTSB guidelines that you have to preserve the scene to collect evidence, etc before clearing everything out?

One of the reports I heard was that they couldn’t get the blue gondola (the one that failed to launch) off the line. No idea if that is true or just speculation.

 

[flynnibus]

I really wish I could have listened in on all of the meetings had between Disney and Dopplemayr

Did they discuss the numbers on the each Gondola?
Did Disney opt out of paying for some upgrades to the systems or emergency kits?
Were they promised something by Dopplemayr but not delivered, or delivered too late for opening?
Did they ever discuss putting up safety warnings that certain types of guests may want to ride the bus instead?
Is there a certain dispatch timing and push by Disney to get things done faster/more efficiently?

Edit: I wonder what Bob Gurr thinks of this

Well.. every item you listed is not in his monorails.. so I guess he's got no bone to pick

 

[trainplane3]

I'm tempted now more than ever for many reasons!

PIA is a good one. I've been using them for over a year so far.



Back to your normally scheduled anger fest over gondolas and monorails...

 

[flynnibus]

One of the reports I heard was that they couldn’t get the blue gondola (the one that failed to launch) off the line. No idea if that is true or just speculation.

They struggled with it.. but eventually got it onto the side spur. They got the gondolas unstacked... but then struggled to get the blue one moving correctly, then overcame that, got it on the side spur, and then ultimately were able to run the line again to offload people.

 

[ChrisFL]

Well.. every item you listed is not in his monorails.. so I guess he's got no bone to pick

Oh I know, but he was basically involved in most (if not all) of the transportation systems in Disneyland when it opened

 

[flynnibus]

Oh I know, but he was basically involved in most (if not all) of the transportation systems in Disneyland when it opened

Oh I know.. and he's had plenty of failures too. Just had the environment where the answer was 'well then fix it!' and they iterated and learned from their shortcomings. But he didn't have the foresight for these items either

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Oh I know, but he was basically involved in most (if not all) of the transportation systems in Disneyland when it opened

Oh I know.. and he's had plenty of failures too. Just had the environment where the answer was 'well then fix it!' and they iterated and learned from their shortcomings. But he didn't have the foresight for these items either

Putting numbers in specific places on vehicles is something that can be very easily overlooked. When I was lettering/wrapping vehicles on the regular, it wasn't uncommon for truckers to come in for maximum height decals, DOT numbers and the like because whoever did the graphics initially didn't account for them, and the truck owner simply forgot about them...until they got cited for it. (I seem to recall seeing at the very least, sheets that indicated what decals/numbers/locations were required by law, and some of the industry templates used to get measurements for specific vehicle models - especially box trucks and larger - include dummy numbers for placement and size.)

I'm not saying that to excuse Disney in this case, because someone should have at least traveled the gondola path and made a note of whether you could locate a specific cabin during the day or at night - especially during evacuation training. Do we even know if they did any training at night?

Another thing I thought of...this installation at WDW is pretty unique, with many customizations. If memory serves, ski resorts generally light trails and ski-lift/gondola paths VERY well, and I would suspect that a city installation would have enough ambient light that finding a gondola should be relatively easy...but it doesn't strike me that this could be the ONLY instance that would require numbers on the bottoms of the cabins...

Just some thoughts.

 

[flynnibus]

Do we even know if they did any training at night?

Yes, training over IG was done at night for instance. But in those scenarios, depends on how much role playing they did vs just practicing certain steps.

 

[DisneyCane]

You don't ski do you?

I have been on many chair lifts that stopped, no one can tell you anything and it's not a big deal because in my case they have always started right back up. You just hang out, dangling from a cable. Normally it's because someone wiped out getting off the lift or got equipment tangled up in the chair lift.

What exactly is Disney going to say if they can communicate with every gondola? I don't think they can? Sorry folks, you're stuck until we figure this out. ? Never ending tape of, please stay seated the ride will restart shortly? That would just annoy me.

Also how on earth did people get hurt? Seriously? They didn't get hurt from the gondola stopping or did they try to punch their way out and jump to the ground? If you are that fragile you probably shouldn't be at Disney World?

I haven't had the time to read this whole thread or even fully read the news reports. However, this was a thought I also had. When I ski and a Gondola or lift stops you sit there (either outside with your legs dangling on a chair or inside a gondola) until it starts moving. Nobody says anything to you. Granted, the longest I've ever been stopped is maybe 10 minutes.

I also don't understand how anybody got hurt. I've been on lifts and in gondolas when they do an e-stop and it isn't like you are crashing into a solid wall. I've never been standing when one happens but the chair/cabin swings with you so I don't understand how somebody can be injured.

As far as the bathroom goes, when I am skiing if I remotely have to use the bathroom, I do so before boarding a lift or gondola just in case.