News Disney Riviera Resort announced

[Calmdownnow]

wondering if this will be looked at in the other resorts with the same bed?

Earlier in the thread I argued that a review of all the pull-down beds at this resort needed to be urgently checked. This does not apply to the other pull-downs at other resorts. The Riviera failure occurred on the first time that the bed was used, thousands of other guests have slept on other similar, but not identical beds in other resorts. The inference is that they are unlikely to suffer from the same safety failure experienced as happened in this instance.

However, failure on first use at Riviera might suggest that the odds of other failures at Riviera rooms are much greater. The "risk" questions that need to be determined going forward are :
1) Is the design of that specific bed and cabinet unsafe;
2) Was the failure of the mechanism for securing the bed to the wall a result of poor installation -- and if, so how many such installations did that worker or work team install;
3) Were there management factors that encouraged these workers to cut corners and could these factors also have affected the work processes of other teams;
4) Did the work plans the installers were operating to specify how to anchor the cabinets safely and were any such instructions ignored, misunderstood, or not adequate to provide a safe amenity, and how did the company inspect the work against the specifications.

If you then find failings and the contractors, workers or designers were common to other resort installations of drop-down beds, you would logically start to sample safe use in the other resorts as a precaution.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Two words. Stud finder.

Here I am.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Here I am.

Excellent! Now go find some studs.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Here I am.

Is that your Super Hero alter ego?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Excellent! Now go find some studs.

Is that your Super Hero alter ago?

Ouch...

 

[Nunu]

Here I am.

 

[ToTBellHop]

View attachment 434855

If the shoe...errr...unitard fits...unfortunately that particular one is tight around the ol’ web shooter.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Two words. Stud finder.

Studs are placed every 16” - 24”. That is not a module to which everything else is built. There are also some things that need to be placed in rather specific locations and it doesn’t make sense to frame a wall around these items when a viable means exists in the use of blocking.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wow. That would be exceptional service. One Resort, one stop. I just didn’t think the Disney of today would go for that.

Really? That’s the low bar we’re falling over now?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I rode the skyliner in late October...and it’s as bland of a hotel I’ve ever seen Disney do. With the exception of contemporary that’s designed that way.

Saratoga looks in depth compared to this from the outside.


Sales are soft? Huh...maybe it’s overpriced? Or maybe a moderate DVC is a bridge too far?

Hmmm...

 

[Nunu]

$188 a point.

Make that, $195 on January 29.

 

[trainplane3]

Make that, $195 on January 29.

I was just about to say that too. Got this email today:

 

[xdan0920]

Make that, $195 on January 29.

Can you imagine?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Make that, $195 on January 29.

With death-trap furniture, they can definitely command that premium.

Remember: Riviera is meant to be the “Flagship DVC”.

 

[mmascari]

You can’t typically bolt into something without access to the other side. In many cases the right screws into appropriate blocking/backing will suffice.


Trying to tie everything into studs would be a nightmare. You’d have to coordinate all of the framing to be in the exact location for everything being attached. You’d have clusters of extra studs all over the place in some rooms. Blocking allows you to provide a much larger area than the 1 ⅝” side of a light gauge steel stud.

Most people here talking about anchoring to studs don't actually mean conventional studs like a residential home contstruction after the fact find a stud in a general purpose wall. It's shorthand for "anchor to a structural support". Blocking isn't just some large chunk of material that's free floating behind the drywall as a larger area than a typical drywall anchor. It's something that is attached to structure.

Beyond that, this isn't a general purpose generic house construction and room where the furniture is decided after the fact. Everything about the entire room, including all of the furniture is purpose selected and designed in concert with each other. The building structure built, the room structure built to fit into the building specifically designed in concert with the room layout. The two items each impacting the other, from every bump out, water line, electrical plug placement, the entire thing was designed together. It's not just some square room with plugs every six feet that someone fills with random furniture after the fact.

Long before the wall the fold out bed is attached to was built, the designers knew exactly where the fold out bed would go. They knew exactly what wall attachments it requires to keep from tipping. This doesn't mean they had to design an open face wall with bolt holes at the exact attachment point for the bed with panel access to open and reach the back for attaching nuts and washers. (Although that would have been an option.) But, they certainly could have designed that specific wall with structural supports behind the drywall that allowed for easy attachment and allowed for variations or changes over time of exactly where those attachment points are located.

They already do that for every plumbing line, electrical outlet, grab bar, door hinge. It's not even unusual.


I'm sure they designed and modeled the entire thing in 3D. They probably built a sample room complete with furniture free standing before building construction ever started.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Most people here talking about anchoring to studs don't actually mean conventional studs like a residential home contstruction after the fact find a stud in a general purpose wall. It's shorthand for "anchor to a structural support". Blocking isn't just some large chunk of material that's free floating behind the drywall as a larger area than a typical drywall anchor. It's something that is attached to structure.

Beyond that, this isn't a general purpose generic house construction and room where the furniture is decided after the fact. Everything about the entire room, including all of the furniture is purpose selected and designed in concert with each other. The building structure built, the room structure built to fit into the building specifically designed in concert with the room layout. The two items each impacting the other, from every bump out, water line, electrical plug placement, the entire thing was designed together. It's not just some square room with plugs every six feet that someone fills with random furniture after the fact.

Long before the wall the fold out bed is attached to was built, the designers knew exactly where the fold out bed would go. They knew exactly what wall attachments it requires to keep from tipping. This doesn't mean they had to design an open face wall with bolt holes at the exact attachment point for the bed with panel access to open and reach the back for attaching nuts and washers. (Although that would have been an option.) But, they certainly could have designed that specific wall with structural supports behind the drywall that allowed for easy attachment and allowed for variations or changes over time of exactly where those attachment points are located.

They already do that for every plumbing line, electrical outlet, grab bar, door hinge. It's not even unusual.


I'm sure they designed and modeled the entire thing in 3D. They probably built a sample room complete with furniture free standing before building construction ever started.

And then, ??? happened?

 

[DisneyJeff]

So it's starting to look like this resort is cursed. Skyliner "issue" at the Riviera station less than one week after opening, and a folding bed "incident" opening night of the resort. Hmmmm.

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[lazyboy97o]

Most people here talking about anchoring to studs don't actually mean conventional studs like a residential home contstruction after the fact find a stud in a general purpose wall. It's shorthand for "anchor to a structural support". Blocking isn't just some large chunk of material that's free floating behind the drywall as a larger area than a typical drywall anchor. It's something that is attached to structure.

Beyond that, this isn't a general purpose generic house construction and room where the furniture is decided after the fact. Everything about the entire room, including all of the furniture is purpose selected and designed in concert with each other. The building structure built, the room structure built to fit into the building specifically designed in concert with the room layout. The two items each impacting the other, from every bump out, water line, electrical plug placement, the entire thing was designed together. It's not just some square room with plugs every six feet that someone fills with random furniture after the fact.

Long before the wall the fold out bed is attached to was built, the designers knew exactly where the fold out bed would go. They knew exactly what wall attachments it requires to keep from tipping. This doesn't mean they had to design an open face wall with bolt holes at the exact attachment point for the bed with panel access to open and reach the back for attaching nuts and washers. (Although that would have been an option.) But, they certainly could have designed that specific wall with structural supports behind the drywall that allowed for easy attachment and allowed for variations or changes over time of exactly where those attachment points are located.

They already do that for every plumbing line, electrical outlet, grab bar, door hinge. It's not even unusual.


I'm sure they designed and modeled the entire thing in 3D. They probably built a sample room complete with furniture free standing before building construction ever started.

I’d be inclined to believe people might just be using “stud” as shorthand if they were not specifically calling them out as a superior point of attachment to blocking.

Light gauge framing is not usually considered structural.

Framing design is not part of architectural or interior design scope of services. It is not information that is required to received a building permit. Furnishings and fixtures should be coordinated to avoid conflicts but not to the level of providing specific support for each item. More dense stud spacing may be called out for specific walls, but it’s not typically going to get much more detailed than a note stating the different spacing. The designers may well not know the specific wall attachments depending on the openness of the specifications and this starts to get into “means and method“ which are the contractor‘s responsibility. Blocking will often be a note saying it is to be provided where required, with diagrammatic locations on an elevation being extra information. Shop drawings will be done for the framing but that comes during construction.

A 3D Revit design model is not going to include wall framing studs either. Disney does do full size mock-ups of prototypical rooms, but their intent is aesthetic approval from executives, not approval of construction means and methods. They are done early enough where there is still plenty of time for changes to be made to the interior design, especially specific details of individual furniture pieces. There is also a chance that the room mock-ups are done by Buena Vista Construction Company or another contractor who is not necessarily the contractor for the hotel.

 

[pdude81]

Most people here talking about anchoring to studs don't actually mean conventional studs like a residential home contstruction after the fact find a stud in a general purpose wall. It's shorthand for "anchor to a structural support". Blocking isn't just some large chunk of material that's free floating behind the drywall as a larger area than a typical drywall anchor. It's something that is attached to structure.

Beyond that, this isn't a general purpose generic house construction and room where the furniture is decided after the fact. Everything about the entire room, including all of the furniture is purpose selected and designed in concert with each other. The building structure built, the room structure built to fit into the building specifically designed in concert with the room layout. The two items each impacting the other, from every bump out, water line, electrical plug placement, the entire thing was designed together. It's not just some square room with plugs every six feet that someone fills with random furniture after the fact.

Long before the wall the fold out bed is attached to was built, the designers knew exactly where the fold out bed would go. They knew exactly what wall attachments it requires to keep from tipping. This doesn't mean they had to design an open face wall with bolt holes at the exact attachment point for the bed with panel access to open and reach the back for attaching nuts and washers. (Although that would have been an option.) But, they certainly could have designed that specific wall with structural supports behind the drywall that allowed for easy attachment and allowed for variations or changes over time of exactly where those attachment points are located.

They already do that for every plumbing line, electrical outlet, grab bar, door hinge. It's not even unusual.


I'm sure they designed and modeled the entire thing in 3D. They probably built a sample room complete with furniture free standing before building construction ever started.

Thank you. Likely an installation issue but which of many possibilities is impossible to say, including whether the blocking in the wall is missing or faulty. The idea that drywall anchors were planned for or allowable here is nuts.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I’d be inclined to believe people might just be using “stud” as shorthand if they were not specifically calling them out as a superior point of attachment to blocking.

Light gauge framing is not usually considered structural.

Framing design is not part of architectural or interior design scope of services. It is not information that is required to received a building permit. Furnishings and fixtures should be coordinated to avoid conflicts but not to the level of providing specific support for each item. More dense stud spacing may be called out for specific walls, but it’s not typically going to get much more detailed than a note stating the different spacing. The designers may well not know the specific wall attachments depending on the openness of the specifications and this starts to get into “means and method“ which are the contractor‘s responsibility. Blocking will often be a note saying it is to be provided where required, with diagrammatic locations on an elevation being extra information. Shop drawings will be done for the framing but that comes during construction.

A 3D Revit design model is not going to include wall framing studs either. Disney does do full size mock-ups of prototypical rooms, but their intent is aesthetic approval from executives, not approval of construction means and methods. They are done early enough where there is still plenty of time for changes to be made to the interior design, especially specific details of individual furniture pieces. There is also a chance that the room mock-ups are done by Buena Vista Construction Company or another contractor who is not necessarily the contractor for the hotel.

I only use stud to describe myself. That’s safest.