Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

[dadddio]

If you only love your wife 2 days a week... do you have a right to tell your wife she's wrong when she complains about you ignoring her?

Doing 'something' does not excuse your inadequacies in addressing all your responsibilities.

There you go again, altering the topic so you can make your pithy response.

If you take your wife out to dinner twice a week, then she's wrong if she complains that you never take her anywhere.

 

[dadddio]

One underwhelming expansion and one that is already looking rocky vs a major facelift for half of the resort... There's no competition.

I agree. I am not at all convinced that these two companies are in a competition.

 

[TubaGeek]

It is unfair to compare though what Uni is rumored/hoped to do vs what Disney confirmed they were going to do

It's completely fair. Disney announces projects five year away, and Uni keeps them unofficial till they're about to open.
Even still, all those projects I listed happened while Disney was dinking around with their pathetic dark ride and a kiddy coaster. Though I will say, the atmosphere of FLE is very pretty.

I agree. I am not at all convinced that these two companies are in a competition.

In terms of attendance and profitability, Disney wins hands down.
In terms of innovation and momentum, Uni wins hands down.
Either way, the use of the word "competition" is a little silly. As long as everyone is making more money, there are no losers.

 

[dadddio]

Either way, the use of the word "competition" is a little silly. As long as everyone is making more money, there are no losers.

Exactly. The idea that a competition exists is a fantasy created on the internet.

 

[PhotoDave219]

If you only love your wife 2 days a week... do you have a right to tell your wife she's wrong when she complains about you ignoring her?

Doing 'something' does not excuse your inadequacies in addressing all your responsibilities.

Depends on the kind of sweet lovin you give her. If you do it right, you can love both your wife and her frienemy from down the street at the same time....

 

[Nemo14]

Depends on the kind of sweet lovin you give her. If you do it right, you can love both your wife and her frienemy from down the street at the same time....

 

[TubaGeek]

Exactly. The idea that a competition exists is a fantasy created on the internet.

I certainly wouldn't limit it down to that. There are plenty of company big wigs and creatives that thrive on the concept of competition. They take pride in one-upping the other. But, to the shareholders, it's not about how much OTHER PEOPLE are making, but how much THEY are making.

 

[flynnibus]

There you go again, altering the topic so you can make your pithy response.

It's not changing the topic.. it's an analogy.

Again.. doing 'some' does not mean you've done everything you are responsible for.

The story of "disney is doing avatar, blah blah blah' does not negate Disney's lack of effort and response in everything else they need to do. That's your pithy argument being torn up.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Disney has the Attendance
Universal has the new rides

Facts:
1. No matter what Universal does with Universal Studios and IOA...they will never...ever...ever catch the attendance at Disney World Resort. It will never happen. Period. So yes, there is no competition from a monetary stand point. Never has been, never will be. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just wishful thinking.
Those are just the facts. Can't argue with them. All you have to do (if I may use a sports analogy) is look up and point at the scoreboard. Nothing else can be said.

There might be moments when one of those parks catches the weakest link at Walt Disney World but if you look at 2013 numbers. It would take a lot to catch up.

Weakest links at WDW are DHS and AK. They aren't that weak when looking at numbers. They are both top 4 and 5 themeparks in the world. Bringing in close to 10,200,000 a year. Very impressive numbers. Those numbers will see a spike when Avatar is completes and when they finally build Star Wars.

In 2013, IOA brings in close to 8,550,000 and Universal Studios close to 7,100,000. Now these are 2013 numbers and it will be interesting to see how Potter effects Universal Studios.

Wow...give it up to Magic Kingdom, nothing is ever going to touch that. The best theme park Universal/Comcast has to offer is still 2,000,000 off tarket from the weakest link in WDW. Ten Million off the pace of Magic Kingdom. Very Impressive.

Looking at numbers though, universal studios and it's newly added rides like Transformers have shown a nice attendance spike. Magic kingdom added 1,000,000 more in attendance after the opening of New Fantasyland.

Expansion works Disney, built it and they will come.

2.Ride development 2010-2014
There is no competition here. Universal owns Disney with better designed, executed rides in the last 5 years.
Fact. As of right now Universal is kicking Disney's butt with newly created rides from 2010-2014. Not counting future rides that are in development or rumored to be coming. Again, this is rides only, not shops, stores, meet and greets or refurbs of existing rides. Parks always need to refurb old rides to keep them fresh.

Disney: 2 Rides in 5 years. Not great when you consider there are 4 parks at WDW. Disney Should be developing one ride every 4 years per each park. That would average out to a new ride every year at WDW. No E-tickets created and that is a huge downer. The fact that nothing was developed in three of the four parks is alarming. Think about that...for 5 years three parks at the greatest theme park destination in the world went with out a new ride created. Wow! You can hear Disney laughing and calling everyone suckers!
Disney
2012: New Fantasyland: Little Mermaid opens
2014: Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.

Universal: 5 for 5!
5 new rides in 5 years! Excellent, what you want to see from a theme park. Not only that, 3 are E-ticket rides (not sure what Despicable me is?)! This is why everyone is excited about the growth at universal. They are on top of the food chain when it comes to executing their ideas. How could you not want to go to this park and see what's new in Florida? If they are going to play catch up in the attendance game, this is the way to do it. Comcast is going all in. You want the latest and greatest in Florida? You must go to Universal, they have 5 examples. You are getting your monies worth with state of the art
entertainment.
2010: Harry Potter Forbidden Journey
2012: Despicable me minion mayhem
2012: Transformers
2014: Gringotts Ride
2014: Harry Potter Train ride

 

[mahnamahna101]

It's completely fair. Disney announces projects five year away, and Uni keeps them unofficial till they're about to open.
Even still, all those projects I listed happened while Disney was dinking around with their pathetic dark ride and a kiddy coaster. Though I will say, the atmosphere of FLE is very pretty.

In terms of attendance and profitability, Disney wins hands down.
In terms of innovation and momentum, Uni wins hands down.
Either way, the use of the word "competition" is a little silly. As long as everyone is making more money, there are no losers.

Also, Universal builds what they rumor 9 times out of 10. Even the postponed JP and Seuss expansions aren't cut. Both are going to happen after Kong/KidZone.

Honestly, if New Fantasyland had a game-changing dark ride, I don't think anyone would complain about SDMT. Granted, Disney needs to take care of the already faltering show quality.

But regardless of which resort you support, there's no denying that Universal does have momentum and scale on their side. Just look at what Universal might have up by the time Pandora and Disney Springs are both open.

1. Kong
2. CityWalk 2.0
3. KidZone revamp/replacement
4. Interactive Gardens of Allah museum
5. nighttime show for IOA
6. upgrades for Mummy and E.T.
7. JP expansion/revamp (family coaster, dark ride, CJ enhancements, streetmosphere, JPRA getting a massive upgrade)
8. Hotel 5
9. Wondersea Island (game changing water park/theme park hybrid)
10. Revamp/expansion/addition to one of IOA's areas

It's just not comparable. Universal Orlando is the one adding exciting adventures that take you to another world. TDO is doing the bare minimum while also misusing/overbudgeting the money they do invest.

 

[Bairstow]

Disney has the Attendance
Universal has the new rides

Facts:
1. No matter what Universal does with Universal Studios and IOA...they will never...ever...ever catch the attendance at Disney World Resort. It will never happen. Period. So yes, there is no competition from a monetary stand point. Never has been, never will be. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just wishful thinking.
Those are just the facts. Can't argue with them. All you have to do (if I may use a sports analogy) is look up and point at the scoreboard. Nothing else can be said.

There might be moments when one of those parks catches the weakest link at Walt Disney World but if you look at 2013 numbers. It would take a lot to catch up.

Weakest links at WDW are DHS and AK. They aren't that weak when looking at numbers. They are both top 4 and 5 themeparks in the world. Bringing in close to 10,200,000 a year. Very impressive numbers. Those numbers will see a spike when Avatar is completes and when they finally build Star Wars.

In 2013, IOA brings in close to 8,550,000 and Universal Studios close to 7,100,000. Now these are 2013 numbers and it will be interesting to see how Potter effects Universal Studios.

Wow...give it up to Magic Kingdom, nothing is ever going to touch that. The best theme park Universal/Comcast has to offer is still 2,000,000 off tarket from the weakest link in WDW. Ten Million off the pace of Magic Kingdom. Very Impressive.

Looking at numbers though, universal studios and it's newly added rides like Transformers have shown a nice attendance spike. Magic kingdom added 1,000,000 more in attendance after the opening of New Fantasyland.

Expansion works Disney, built it and they will come.

2.Ride development 2010-2014
There is no competition here. Universal owns Disney with better designed, executed rides in the last 5 years.
Fact. As of right now Universal is kicking Disney's butt with newly created rides from 2010-2014. Not counting future rides that are in development or rumored to be coming. Again, this is rides only, not shops, stores, meet and greets or refurbs of existing rides. Parks always need to refurb old rides to keep them fresh.

Disney: 2 Rides in 5 years. Not great when you consider there are 4 parks at WDW. Disney Should be developing one ride every 4 years per each park. That would average out to a new ride every year at WDW. No E-tickets created and that is a huge downer. The fact that nothing was developed in three of the four parks is alarming. Think about that...for 5 years three parks at the greatest theme park destination in the world went with out a new ride created. Wow! You can hear Disney laughing and calling everyone suckers!
Disney
2012: New Fantasyland: Little Mermaid opens
2014: Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.

Universal: 5 for 5!
5 new rides in 5 years! Excellent, what you want to see from a theme park. Not only that, 3 are E-ticket rides (not sure what Despicable me is?)! This is why everyone is excited about the growth at universal. They are on top of the food chain when it comes to executing their ideas. How could you not want to go to this park and see what's new in Florida? If they are going to play catch up in the attendance game, this is the way to do it. Comcast is going all in. You want the latest and greatest in Florida? You must go to Universal, they have 5 examples. You are getting your monies worth with state of the art
entertainment.
2010: Harry Potter Forbidden Journey
2012: Despicable me minion mayhem
2012: Transformers
2014: Gringotts Ride
2014: Harry Potter Train ride

I for one will be really disappointed if neither Universal park catches DHS in 2015.

Look for the Magic Kingdom and even Epcot to spike almost as high, though.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Disney has the Attendance
Universal has the new rides

Facts:
1. No matter what Universal does with Universal Studios and IOA...they will never...ever...ever catch the attendance at Disney World Resort. It will never happen. Period. So yes, there is no competition from a monetary stand point. Never has been, never will be. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just wishful thinking.
Those are just the facts. Can't argue with them. All you have to do (if I may use a sports analogy) is look up and point at the scoreboard. Nothing else can be said.

There might be moments when one of those parks catches the weakest link at Walt Disney World but if you look at 2013 numbers. It would take a lot to catch up.

Weakest links at WDW are DHS and AK. They aren't that weak when looking at numbers. They are both top 4 and 5 themeparks in the world. Bringing in close to 10,200,000 a year. Very impressive numbers. Those numbers will see a spike when Avatar is completes and when they finally build Star Wars.

In 2013, IOA brings in close to 8,550,000 and Universal Studios close to 7,100,000. Now these are 2013 numbers and it will be interesting to see how Potter effects Universal Studios.

Wow...give it up to Magic Kingdom, nothing is ever going to touch that. The best theme park Universal/Comcast has to offer is still 2,000,000 off tarket from the weakest link in WDW. Ten Million off the pace of Magic Kingdom. Very Impressive.

Looking at numbers though, universal studios and it's newly added rides like Transformers have shown a nice attendance spike. Magic kingdom added 1,000,000 more in attendance after the opening of New Fantasyland.

Expansion works Disney, built it and they will come.

2.Ride development 2010-2014
There is no competition here. Universal owns Disney with better designed, executed rides in the last 5 years.
Fact. As of right now Universal is kicking Disney's butt with newly created rides from 2010-2014. Not counting future rides that are in development or rumored to be coming. Again, this is rides only, not shops, stores, meet and greets or refurbs of existing rides. Parks always need to refurb old rides to keep them fresh.

Disney: 2 Rides in 5 years. Not great when you consider there are 4 parks at WDW. Disney Should be developing one ride every 4 years per each park. That would average out to a new ride every year at WDW. No E-tickets created and that is a huge downer. The fact that nothing was developed in three of the four parks is alarming. Think about that...for 5 years three parks at the greatest theme park destination in the world went with out a new ride created. Wow! You can hear Disney laughing and calling everyone suckers!
Disney
2012: New Fantasyland: Little Mermaid opens
2014: Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.

Universal: 5 for 5!
5 new rides in 5 years! Excellent, what you want to see from a theme park. Not only that, 3 are E-ticket rides (not sure what Despicable me is?)! This is why everyone is excited about the growth at universal. They are on top of the food chain when it comes to executing their ideas. How could you not want to go to this park and see what's new in Florida? If they are going to play catch up in the attendance game, this is the way to do it. Comcast is going all in. You want the latest and greatest in Florida? You must go to Universal, they have 5 examples. You are getting your monies worth with state of the art
entertainment.
2010: Harry Potter Forbidden Journey
2012: Despicable me minion mayhem
2012: Transformers
2014: Gringotts Ride
2014: Harry Potter Train ride

DHS and AK barely have 10 million.... and both are the most likely to get hurt by Universal Orlando's rapid expansion. Both parks are going to be at around 8.5 million with Diagon - that's going to be huge... no denying it. Let's say DHS and AK stay the same... maybe add 100,000 visitors. Personally, I'd say DHS is going to decline slightly while AK has Harambe Nights to keep it stable or add some visitors.

2015 has Kong, 2016 has KidZone and possibly a JP expansion, 2017 is likely to have some major addition and the waterpark... DHS isn't going to keep increasing without an actual addition/expansion to the park (Potter 1.0 is the main reason attendance increased IMO) . AK might be able to hold steady or have a slight increase. Let's say 9.5 million for DHS and 10.5 million for AK by January 2017. Maybe 11 million if River of Light and the nighttime safari are spectacular.

Is it really implausible to think USF and IOA will be at 10 million or so each by 2017? They're adding major additions year after year. They have momentum on their side. Diagon Alley will do most of the heavy lifting (bringing both parks to 9-9.5 million in attendance each in 2015 with Kong providing an extra boost)

 

[DinoInstitute]

DHS and AK barely have 10 million.... and both are the most likely to get hurt by Universal Orlando's rapid expansion. Both parks are going to be at around 8.5 million with Diagon - that's going to be huge... no denying it. Let's say DHS and AK stay the same... maybe add 100,000 visitors. Personally, I'd say DHS is going to decline slightly while AK has Harambe Nights to keep it stable or add some visitors.

2015 has Kong, 2016 has KidZone and possibly a JP expansion, 2017 is likely to have some major addition and the waterpark... DHS isn't going to keep increasing without an actual addition/expansion to the park (Potter 1.0 is the main reason attendance increased IMO) . AK might be able to hold steady or have a slight increase. Let's say 9.5 million for DHS and 10.5 million for AK by January 2017. Maybe 11 million if River of Light and the nighttime safari are spectacular.

Is it really implausible to think USF and IOA will be at 10 million or so each by 2017? They're adding major additions year after year. They have momentum on their side. Diagon Alley will do most of the heavy lifting (bringing both parks to 9-9.5 million in attendance each in 2015 with Kong providing an extra boost)

The thing is though, DHS and DAK probably still will increase. People will visit WDW more, that is increasing, and when they are there most likely 70-80% will visit all parks. And that is just vacationers from afar

 

[mahnamahna101]

I for one will be really disappointed if neither Universal park catches DHS in 2015.

Look for the Magic Kingdom and even Epcot to spike almost as high, though.

2016 is more likely unless DHS tumbles this year and next... not saying it's impossible. IOA and USF are more worthy of increasing (IOA has a shot at equaling DHS in 2015 with Kong and a nighttime show along with Diagon still driving crowds). You've got Diagon (even if it's just slight), Kong's first full year, KidZone replacement, a nighttime show and a potential JP expansion all driving attendance in the same year. Both parks could soar past 9.5 million and that just might be TDO's wakeup call to greenlight Star Wars Land.

Magic Kingdom is probably getting to 19-20 million by Pandora since SDMT will give NFL an extra boost. Epcot could get to 11.5-12 million with the Frozen overlay for Maelstrom.

 

[mahnamahna101]

The thing is though, DHS and DAK probably still will increase. People will visit WDW more, that is increasing, and when they are there most likely 70-80% will visit all parks. And that is just vacationers from afar

By 1-3% yeah although since Disney doesn't release official numbers, they could easily move some of the attendance from MK to those parks to make them seem like they're increasing.

Either way, IOA and USF are prepping to soar past 9 million by 2016 and potentially touch 10 million each by 2017/2018.

 

[CinematicFusion]

DHS and AK barely have 10 million.... and both are the most likely to get hurt by Universal Orlando's rapid expansion. Both parks are going to be at around 8.5 million with Diagon - that's going to be huge... no denying it. Let's say DHS and AK stay the same... maybe add 100,000 visitors. Personally, I'd say DHS is going to decline slightly while AK has Harambe Nights to keep it stable or add some visitors.

2015 has Kong, 2016 has KidZone and possibly a JP expansion, 2017 is likely to have some major addition and the waterpark... DHS isn't going to keep increasing without an actual addition/expansion to the park (Potter 1.0 is the main reason attendance increased IMO) . AK might be able to hold steady or have a slight increase. Let's say 9.5 million for DHS and 10.5 million for AK by January 2017. Maybe 11 million if River of Light and the nighttime safari are spectacular.

Is it really implausible to think USF and IOA will be at 10 million or so each by 2017? They're adding major additions year after year. They have momentum on their side. Diagon Alley will do most of the heavy lifting (bringing both parks to 9-9.5 million in attendance each in 2015 with Kong providing an extra boost)

1. It's not impossible to think USF and IOA will be at 10 million by 2017.
It's also very possible to see an explosion in attendance at AK with the opening of Avatar and the new night time show. Longer hours, more people to the park and if they hit a winner with Avatar you could see AK bringing in 11.5 million in 2017 or 2018. It's possible that Star Wars is being built by then at DHS at the buzz of the land brings in more people to that park.
But what you are saying, what I am saying is all theory and speculation. Just like it's speculation Avatar land will be good, it's fact Potter land is amazing.
I'm just showing facts right now.
Right now, it will still be very hard for Universal to catch WDW in attendance. Not impossible but very hard.
Islands of adventure is still 1.5 behind AK with Avatar on it's way. Universal is 3 million behind.
I just don't see Universal ever catching up. Right now, Disney has scoreboard on Universal with attendance. Nothing wrong with that. That own attendance over everybody.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I for one will be really disappointed if neither Universal park catches DHS in 2015.

Look for the Magic Kingdom and even Epcot to spike almost as high, though.

It would be hard, you would need DHS to fall below 2011 numbers to 9610000. Losing 500,000 people in attendance and IOA increasing to over 1 million customers. I just don't see that happening. Universal studios would have to increase over 2.5 million. Very hard thing to do even with the newly minted Potter land.

Disney really does own attendance and it's not even close. Those are facts.

Universal is building better rides over these last 5 years. Those are facts...it's not even close.

 

[dadddio]

It's not changing the topic.. it's an analogy.

Again.. doing 'some' does not mean you've done everything you are responsible for.

The story of "disney is doing avatar, blah blah blah' does not negate Disney's lack of effort and response in everything else they need to do. That's your pithy argument being torn up.

There you go again.

The comment that I was responding to was that WDW was 'stagnant'. Clearly, that's untrue. You either didn't bother to read the post that I responded to or you are trying to twist everything to match your argument. Either way, you need to up your game.

 

[WildcatDen]

If you only love your wife 2 days a week

2 Days a week, eh. Well you definitely 'screw' up the averages. . .

 

[CinematicFusion]

The thing is though, DHS and DAK probably still will increase. People will visit WDW more, that is increasing, and when they are there most likely 70-80% will visit all parks. And that is just vacationers from afar

True if we play with assumptions and using the stats as a guide. We have to assume based on the million mark increase at Magic Kingdom with the New Fantasyland that AK will Also see a huge increase with the introduction of Avatar Land and the night show in 2017.
Disney has developed a wonderful mousetrap. When you are in their world it is hard to leave. Especially when you are staying on campus.