Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

kap91

Well-Known Member
Regardless of ones opinion of Universal and the level of WDW fanboism, everyone should understand that Universal rotting away was not a good thing for Disney. Harry Potter single handily put Uni back on the tourist map and gave them the financial flexibility to move forward.
That's a very good point. Another reason I'm glad Universal got HP and not Disney. They'd quite likely be in bankruptcy now or very close if it hadn't been for Potter. I like WDW more than Universal but I certainly don't want to see it in that state.
 
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Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
That's a very good point. Another reason I'm glad Universal got HP and not Disney. They'd quite likely be in bankruptcy now or ver close if it hadn't been for Potter. I like WDW more than Universal but I certainly don't want to see it in that state.

you dont half talk some e.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I also have to agree. I really enjoy the HP movies and am not a much of an Avatar fan. I'll go see HP at UNI sometime, but UNI isn't winning me over from being a Disney fan. I'll also go see Avatar as I'll be at AK anyway, and yes, it may make my stay at AK longer and more enjoyable once that and all the other updates are complete.

You are a fan of Harry Potter, yet you may go see it ''sometime''? And you have already stated that it won't win you over? Is WDW a religion for you? Does riding Small World make you feel baptized in the joy, the wonder, the MAGIC? I do think you are being honest, which is more than many Disney fans ... but I just wonder why? Why is Disney viewed as a religion or political affiliation? Why can't they ever lose your business, your support, your money?

I think it's more of a win/win. As stated by others, UNI needed a big IP to make IOA a bigger destination and revitalize their path. We need UNI to be successful as it does create competition with Disney and will at some point help drive new work. Certainly, this is NO lesson on how to maximize IP. As others have stated with Carsland as an example, Disney knows how, it's just a matter of do they want to? Sure it would have been cool in some ways, but it just doesn't fit right and I know Rowling would never have permitted it to be anything less then what UNI committed to. Also consider that UNI is essentially land locked like Disneyland. As they build out, price of surrounding property goes up, and thus it becomes less practical for them to expand. They need some big IPs to milk what they have, where WDW isn't facing the same dilemma. (Yeah, I know. Unless they keep selling of land. That's another thread.)

Really? UNI needed Potter because it's land-locked? That's the best you've got? And WDW has the blessing of size to waste all the land Walt bought? Remember that MAGICal film from the 60s where Uncle Walt said ''We have enough land here for all the timeshares and hotel rooms we may imagine''?

What does it say that UNI is buying up land while Disney is selling off land (see: Compass Rose)?

Not too mention, who would have wanted Cinderella's castle replaced with Hogwarts? Though an HP remake done in CG with the Disney characters in the movie would have been pretty damn funny! Mickey as Harry and Goofy as Lord V. Could have been worth it right there!

Now, I know you aren't serious about one castle replacing another ... but you do realize the way the Star Wars characters have been bastardized by mashing them with Disney's was something that Rowling would never support, right?

There wouldn't have been $48 Potter character breakfasts for @WDWFigment's wife to look cute at (OK, Tom, you looked cute too! Happy?) and people to blog about. You can't even buy a Coke in Hogsmeade because carrying the narrative through is what was considered above all. But, hey, at least you can buy Tink antenna toppers in Liberty Square.

As for the whole NexGen point, can we let this go? Disney did not spend $1B on just WDW bracelets and that is a fact. Their entire infrastructure that manages sales, reservations, photos, and more across all their properties including the cruise ships all had to be upgraded & enhanced. It is a cross business unit enhancement so they can change direction in the long term. Like any other sophisticated system that requires touching almost every system in place, it has issues that they have been diligently working through. Frustrating for now, but later it will be no big deal. I'm curious if all of you who complain about NexGen would have thrown a fit back in the day when Disney changed A/B/C/D/E tickets to a single park entry paper ticket would have complained then? "Well, why should I pay for those rides when I won't go on them. I only like these rides, but now I have to pay for them all essentially." Or more recently did you complain with "I don't want my room key, park ticket, and charging privleges linked on this Key-to-the-World credit card thing. If someone gets a hold of it, they can break into my room and charge up all kinds of things, plus I'm out a park ticket!"? It's all so silly really. Just simple business evolution. The bigger the business, the harder it is to change course.

No, we can't ... and the number is over $2 billion, not that the lower figure isn't mindnumbing either.

Your argument comparing A-E tickets, which I am ancient enough to have experienced for many visits in the 70s and early 80s, to NGE is just not a valid one.
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
Mental illness runs very strong within the Disney fan community (no, even though I shouldn't have to, I will place the disclaimer that I am not talking about you but many fans in general).

It's scary actually. If you just surface-skim the whole issue and without diving in too deep to the core psychological issues; you see cognitive issues that strongly parallel Stockholm syndrome, OCD, Celebrity worship, DD, mental and physical addiction (gambling, drug), etc...... The really interesting thing, though, is that Disney seems to have its own unique sub-set of these larger issues. It's fascinating to a point, these small branches of larger issues that are purely Disney specific......
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Today's landscape is very different than it was in 2007 when Universal was WDW's floor mat.

Introduced in 2005, the goal of Disney's Magic Express (DME) was to get guests to pool the money spent on offsite hotels & car rentals and, instead, spend that money at WDW.

It worked.

Onsite hotel occupancy at WDW climbed from 77% in 2004 before peaking at 90%.

As long as guests had no reason to visit other Orlando tourist destinations, they spent all their cash at WDW.

WWOHP broke that stranglehold.

Why pay Disney's astronomical hotel prices if you need to rent a car to travel between WDW and Universal, even if you intend to visit Uni for only a couple of days?

Since the opening of WWOHP, WDW's onsite occupancy rate has plunged from 90% in 2007 & 2008 to 79% in 2013. If that doesn't sound like much, with WDW's 27,000 rooms and Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS) at $267, it represents about $280M in lost revenue annually. Because of the way hotel costs are structured, most of that $280M represents profit.

As a result of WDW's lower hotel occupancy rate, Disney is losing more money every year than Universal spent to build the original WWOHP.

The genie (or wizard) is out of the bottle.

Even if they bought the theme park rights to the IP and threw it away, Disney would have been better off.

Letting Harry Potter go to Universal was one of the biggest blunders in theme park history.
 
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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Well again, until Universal chooses to build/buy enough parks to become its own 4-5 day destination complex, I don't think that the market share they take from Disney will outweigh the increase in overall Orlando tourism that Potter generates- an increase that Disney is probably benefiting from.

Unless they have some really clever tricks up their sleeve with the Wet n' Wild property, or unless they form a much stronger alliance with Sea World, I don't see Universal being able to do that anytime soon.

Slowly, but surely (and I will call you Shirley), that IS what UNI is doing.

You do know the reason Disney started offering steep DVC discounts on APs was a significant number were using their units simply as vacation homes and going off-property to UNI (as well as other Central Florida locations) and either not going to Disney parks at all or simply spending a day or two versus a week or more when they became DVCers.

This point keeps getting lost, but UNI doesn't have to prevent people from going to WDW to be hugely successful. All they have to do is what they currently are: building their audience from both guests who visit WDW and those who don't (or don't anymore). They don't have to grab guests for five days staying entirely on-property to be incredibly successful. They don't follow WDW's business model: that should have apparent in 2010.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
And, by the same token, can UNI fanbois not act as if the sky parted and a lightning bolt from the heavens came down and created Diagon Alley and anointed a park that still has plenty of flaws as the crystal clear standard of best park in the world?

That's fair -- UNI does have room for improvement, but it's also far and away a better value than WDW at the moment.

My UNI AP was around $200 -- that's crazy, considering the new attractions, discounts, entertainment offerings...

How much would a WDW AP be if Disney had Hogsmeade, Diagon Alley, Transformers, Spidey, etc? If they overprice their APs with a stale slate of attractions, I'd hate to see what they'd charge for genuine, cutting-edge entertainment.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Now how good the future attractions will be is something else entirely, but considering what we've seen in carsland, and the stuff planned for Shanghai, even the last minute changes to mine train, I'd say the odds are better than good that what Orlando gets will not be disappointing.

Based on everything built at WDW in the 21st century, there is no way to be optimistic about anything they are doing. None at all.

Cars Land (two words, folks) and Shanghai have no bearing whatsoever with what has happened in the swamps. There's no reason to feel that will suddenly change at all.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Im sure Disney must benefit from my DVC money, not sure how they benefit from my group of 8 staying an extra night at Uni resort, eating 50% of our meals off site plus losing 3 days to Sea World, Aquatica and Discovery Cove. Plus of course instead of visiting annually we only go when we will lose points.

Still nothing to worry about.
 

prberk

Well-Known Member
I agree but what does disney have to do to blow Universal out of the water? The only thing I think legitimately has a chance is star wars.

The answer: Go back to being Disney.

Go back to being a complete resort and the best at everything they do. Yes, add a Star Wars land. And add new things.

But most of all, the be best at what they do. Go back to five-star service without cutting corners at every turn. Go back to having the reputation that they never have a light bulb out of place. Go back to having amazing food and resorts that take us to a different place. Update EPCOT. Produce shows again, like MMC or even new shows, at Hollywood Studios. [Universal makes "Family Feud" at their studio in Florida.] Produce television (like Walt) live from the park, even maybe an "Inside/Out" type of show on The Disney Channel, but even other shows.

So, yes, add new things like Star Wars land; but most of all, go back to being the best at what they do, and show it to people with enthusiasm.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
@draybook Whereas the initial investment into technology will enable WDW to implement new tech and will be years ahead of everyone else because of it.

MM+ has been up and running for some time now and I seriously can't see how it is or will ever be years ahead of anything. It is bleeding money, not bringing it in. Nobody is booking trips to check out Magic bands, there are still many issues with the tech aspect of it that aren't getting any better and I have yet to see any rational explanation of what all the "behind the scenes" aspects of it are or how they have helped. I never saw anything in all my visits that made me think there were problems "behind the scenes" with the infrastructure. I never lost or had issues with legacy FP, I never got locked out of my room or lost a dining reservation either before all of this. At first everybody was defending it as some great new FP system. It hasn't made FP any better as far wait times and standby lines are a mess. Now people defend it by explaining there are unseen benefits from it with all the behind the scenes aspects. What are they? Seriously. Did Disney invest in such a sh**ty infrastructure years ago and they needed this? I doubt it.

Uni started building Potter around the same time Disney started installing NGE. Uni spent waaaaay less and are already seeing ROI and their parks seem to be surviving just fine without a massive infrastructure upgrade. Meanwhile, Iger still dodges questions about NGE, they sink more money into it causing resort wide cutbacks and expansion projects are stalled. All we get now is hard ticket events. I'd say Uni has made much better decisions all around that actually enhance guest experience AND raise the bottom line.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Universal has an app to to give wait times do they want you to look at your phone too. Like it or not the world has changed. No longer can someone take a vacation and get away from it all. Now we have to have instant everything and always be reachable. I think the past had some advantages.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
@draybook , I usually agree with you, but I don't see why it matters that Disney decided to spend money on MM+ and Uni spent theirs on HP. MM+ , while the costs are mind blowing is infrastructure for all things technology at WDW for the future. To be able to implement the things that they have now, and implement and develop more things going forward, they had to have a starting point and set up and the initial cost of anything when setting it up is going to be the biggest chunk. MM+ will be ever changing and things will be added to it to enhance the guest experience (at least in Disney's eyes) for the next 25 years, you have to start some time. Where as, HP has some rides and shops that are supposedly great (I haven't been, so I don't want to comment unfairly), but what is going to happen with that in 25 years, look at the amount of change that has taken place at WDW in the past 25 years, this will probably happen to Uni as well, IMHO they will probably end up changing HP into something else down the road when all the shinny new ness of it wears off and something bigger and better comes along. Whereas the initial investment into technology will enable WDW to implement new tech and will be years ahead of everyone else because of it.

I got the first part of the above as it largely read like a Disney press release on the two billion dollar boondoggle.

As to Potter being gone in 25 years, sure ... just like Mansion, Pirates, the Disney mountains etc have all shown that they need to be replaced. Nice try. Awful argument.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I hope Disney takes note that UNI is doing things once believed beyond their ability. I hope they understand that aside from land size itself, they should never underestimate what UNI is capable of. I'm on team Disney, it's in my DNA, but sometimes humility is the best medicine.

Why does one ever have to pick a team?

I am not on any team, beyond Team Spirit.

And humility? With Disney?!!?! ROTFLMFAO as the kewl kids said on the 'net about a decade ago!
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Regardless of ones opinion of Universal and the level of WDW fanboism, everyone should understand that Universal rotting away was not a good thing for Disney. Harry Potter single handily put Uni back on the tourist map and gave them the financial flexibility to move forward. Competition is always good, the merits of whether Disney would have done better or worse with the IP doesn't matter, Universal needed it A Lot more than Disney.

Currently TWDC seems to be adding park worthy IP to their coffers faster than they are bothering to improve their parks, I'm not worried about how much IP they have. They have plenty to work with (if they actually bothered to).
There is no competing. There is no structural concern regarding Universal Orlando Resort in relation to Walt Disney World. They're not interested in competing and people just repeating it over and over again does not make it true. Walt Disney World remains committed to the Walt Disney World-only vacation experience and differentiation from others, the primary mechanism being MyMagic+.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Instead Universal gave us 20 meaningless shops(because JK gets a cut of the merchandise), a puke machine, a very expensive transportation screen based train, and a screen based 3D coaster that really isn't a coaster.

So, you've been to DA? You are giving an honest review based on what you experienced? Or are you just addicted to the Disney BRAND and talking out of your behind?
 

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