Disney Overcrowding: Hike Rates or Expand...what will they do?

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'm sure same holds true for Walt Disney World. What do you think. Will Disney raise prices or expand to accommodate the increase in attendance?

La Times Article:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-disneyland-passes-20140521-story.html

Tourists and annual pass holders are flooding Disneyland and California Adventure in large numbers, causing headaches for guests and park officials. Waits for rides often stretch over an hour, and visitors are having to park in remote structures, particularly on Sundays.

Industry experts say the crowding problem leaves Walt Disney Co. with two options: Keep hiking rates until attendance becomes manageable, or expand the park.

Over the weekend, the Anaheim park raised single-day ticket prices by $4 to $96 and temporarily halted new sales of a popular annual pass for Southern California residents. Disneyland officials say they have no current plans for a new Anaheim park, but that hasn't stopped speculation.

Many longtime park watchers say now may be the time to dust off plans, dating to 2000, to build a third park on a 78-acre site just south of Disney's complex on Harbor Boulevard.

Those plans were shelved while the company focused on the 2001 opening of Disney California Adventure, which fell short of expectations until a $1-billion expansion in 2012 added the hugely successful Cars Land.

After Disney acquired Marvel Entertainment Inc. in 2009and Lucasfilm in2012,many fans hoped a third park would feature Marvel superheroes or characters from the "Star Wars" franchise.

"Maybe they'll do Star Wars Land or Indiana Jones Adventure or Marvel characters," said Todd Regan, founder of the Disney blog site MiceChat.com. "It will be interesting to see what happens."

At least for now, Disneyland officials say they are focused on expanding parking. They're buying a lot at the corner of Harbor Boulevard and Ball Road with room for 1,400 parking spaces for employees, freeing up more parking for guests.

"Our goal is to always provide the best possible experience for all of our guests, and we will continue to look for ways to achieve the right in-park balance," said Disneyland spokeswoman Suzi Brown.

Industry experts say Disney might be better off focusing its attention on other theme park projects, including a $4-billion resort in Shanghai, slated to open next year.

"They've got a lot on their plate," said Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services in Cincinnati.

Disneyland does not disclose attendance numbers. But estimates from Aecom, a Los Angeles engineering and consulting firm, show visitor numbers have increased nearly every year from 2004 to 2012.

And they're continuing to rise. Disney reported a 18% increase in operating income from theme parks and resorts for the six months ending March 29.

The attendance surge comes as the nation's travel industry enjoys a surge in spending as the economy continues to rebound from the recession and a more recent lull in travel during winter storms on the East Coast and in the Midwest.

Speigel said theme parks across the country could see double-digit increases — as much as 25% — in attendance this year.

"We are seeing the shaping up of a tremendous 2014," he said.


In Southern California, Universal Studios Hollywood also recently increased its one-day ticket prices, from $84 to $92, just $4 shy of Disneyland's new prices.

But it was Disneyland's suspension of sales of its $379 Southern California Annual Passport that is expected to play the biggest role in reducing crowds. The pass offered access to the park 215 days of the year, including Sundays.

Local pass holders often crowd the parks, leaving little space for out-of-town travelers who typically stay in Disney hotels and spend more on souvenirs. The program gained popularity in 2008, when the company began offering a monthly payment plan.

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Radiator Springs Racers, one of the rides opened in 2012 at Cars Land at Disney California Adventure Park, draws crowds. (Mark Boster, Los Angeles Times)
"Pass holders use the park differently than others," said Adrienne Vincent-Phoenix, an annual pass holder and chief executive of the Disney fan site MousePlanet.com. "You go to the park like you would go to hang out at the mall with your friends."

The move to suspend sales of the annual passports, industry experts say, is an attempt to reduce Sunday numbers and encourage local residents to visit during the week, when crowds are smaller.

Disney continues to sell a $289 annual pass — not including weekend visits — for Southern California residents. Disneyland officials say they have no plans to suspend the sales of any other passes.

In Southern California, Universal Studios Hollywood also recently increased its one-day ticket prices, from $84 to $92, just $4 shy of Disneyland's new prices.

But it was Disneyland's suspension of sales of its $379 Southern California Annual Passport that is expected to play the biggest role in reducing crowds. The pass offered access to the park 215 days of the year, including Sundays.

Local pass holders often crowd the parks, leaving little space for out-of-town travelers who typically stay in Disney hotels and spend more on souvenirs. The program gained popularity in 2008, when the company began offering a monthly payment plan.

hugo.martin@latimes.com
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
It is not at all the same for WDW. You can currently buy a Florida resident 3-day WDW pass for $129. That screams desperation and the exact opposite situation of California.

The capacity problems at MK are being addressed with the FLE and the hub and Main Street bypasses. AK is getting Avatar which should help its crowding; DHS will probably be next (but not until 2020 at least).

TDO would love to have those problems. Hotel capacity is down and TDO is manipulating WDW into the black by raising prices. Eventually, that will catch up to them.
 

TubaGeek

God bless the "Ignore" button.
That's a billion dollar question, but it seems the answer comes easily enough to TDO.
Maybe, if the current trend continues, overcrowding won't be such a major issue for the four Florida parks.
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
If they were smart, Disney themselves would just start mugging and stabbing people in their own parking lots. That way they get a bunch of cash, they can pick and choose who makes it to the front gate, they free up some parking spots, they can release some pent up corporate aggression and teach some of the SoCal disneynuts a lesson about not covering your arms and neck with princess tattoos. Really just a win-win all around and much cheaper than a third gate.
 
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Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Having been the last 3 years i can testify that even in off peak time the crowds at DL were noticeably bigger. Now Im no expert but DL crowds went up post Cars Land, Unis numbers went up post Potter, perhaps theres a connection. I believe it was a philosophical argument made in the motion picture Field of Dreams.
 

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
It is not at all the same for WDW. You can currently buy a Florida resident 3-day WDW pass for $129. That screams desperation and the exact opposite situation of California.

The capacity problems at MK are being addressed with the FLE and the hub and Main Street bypasses. AK is getting Avatar which should help its crowding; DHS will probably be next (but not until 2020 at least).

TDO would love to have those problems. Hotel capacity is down and TDO is manipulating WDW into the black by raising prices. Eventually, that will catch up to them.

I would argue that MK's capacity problems are nowhere near being addressed. If anything, FLE restores capacity to about the same or possibly a little more than 1994 levels. MK's annual attendance in 1994 was 11.2 million - compared to 17.5 million in 2012. I would say MK needs a lot more to make up for both lost attractions and increased attendance - wide walkways only do so much.
 

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
And the prices HAVE raised at WDW. APs barely make a dent in WDW crowds, there's no need to raise the prices there. At DLR APs are a PROBLEM, hence the price hikes for those passes.

At WDW, the cost of one day tickets and resort rates have skyrocketed over the past 10 years. This has been rehashed over and over - the prices ARE higher.
 

Goofnut1980

Well-Known Member
I am rarely a negative person and think improvements of even changing a lightbulb is great! But, we just came back from a week at the world and I have to say this, it was definately more crowded with our $1B investment of MM+. They haven't worked out logistics on it yet. With the parks at an average of a 4/10 the lines for rides were 40+ minutes... When has there ever been that in the past with the regular FP. The other stupid thing they are doing is always sending out bands for every single trip or for APs. Make it an option on the site if you need them. I went in Sept, Dec, May and also bought PAPs. I have 4 sets of bands in 8 months! What a waste of money. I am sure when I go in December and next May, I will get 2 more sets!

I don't feel we need an additional gate in florida but I do think HS and even AK needs to expand and add attractions/lands just in the exisiting areas they have (ie. backlot tour/streets of america). We did everything in a half day at each park. It was actually kind of sad.

Sprucing EPCOT up and adding 2-3 countries would be a great addition to that park. I understand it all takes money and with attendence high, what tips the scale and then flat-lines attendance and consumer spending. Being reactive like Orlando typically is will only drive the flat-line down. I have yet to hear a friend say, "oh I can't wait for Avatar". They usually say - Why are they doing that, doesn't make me want to go... They mention they want to see Potter.

The way Orlando hires contruction companies that take 3 years to complete a project, they would need to start now on any project to not have a flat-line by 2018. (look it's taking a year to add dirt and pathways to the hub. I think the fans could get it done in a few short weekends!) Am I wrong at saying they built all of the Magic Kingdom in 2.5-3 years???

One of my friends at work is going in September and taking her family of 6... only 3 are going to Disney because the boys aren't interested what Disney has to offer. So the Dad and 2 boys will go to Uni, while Mom and 2 girls go to Disney. If it wasn't for Uni, they wouldn't be going. Disney could have 6 spending but will only be 3. Kinda sad.
 

wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
This has nothing to do with Disney World. Disney World's attendance based on Overcrowding isn't an issue for WDW outside the Magic Kingdom. The way to fix the overcrowding is fixing the other parks that AK might help out depending on people react to Avarland when it opens.

Walt Disney World has problems with 3 out the parks currently that isn't over crowding related. DHS the problem for some people in terms of having enough things to do besides only having 6 rides and that means they don't spend the whole day in the park. The park has stuff that needs to replaced, or update besides having some wasted space there.

Epcot's problem is an easy one to figure out. Epcot wouldn't have the attendance it does without the 2 festivals.

Epcot has issues that need to be address in Future World like Journey into Imagination with figment being a ghost town. Future World has attractions that do need an update. World Showcase does need more rides in the current countries currently there. There also is the issue of abandoned buildings.
 

Goofnut1980

Well-Known Member
And the prices HAVE raised at WDW. APs barely make a dent in WDW crowds, there's no need to raise the prices there. At DLR APs are a PROBLEM, hence the price hikes for those passes.

At WDW, the cost of one day tickets and resort rates have skyrocketed over the past 10 years. This has been rehashed over and over - the prices ARE higher.

I agree with you 100%... I just think it's stupid how they keep raising the prices but then have to run sales for people to book. Remember the good ol days of $77 a night at a value, its like $182 now and its only been like 10 years!

Good luck going in September now it's so busy... People get free dining and then complain cause there is a crane in the picture adding lights to the castle. I would rather them make pricing afforable and do it like the old days of seasonal pricing. It was MUCH easier to understand.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
I would suggest leave pricing the same and do the following:
  1. Require resort stay to purchase park ticket.
  2. Build additional resort and DVC capacity to match current attraction capacity in respect to stay to play island model.
  3. Add attractions only after reaching 90% capacity for 3 consecutive quarters.
  4. Add additional resort DVC capacity at pace of additional attractionsattraction capacity.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
Of the two options provided, one will make the company more money while costing nothing, the other will cost the company a lot of money and provide arguably no new funding for many years. Disney of 25 years ago may have made a different decision but it seems very evident what the Disney of today will do.
Eventually it seems they may not have much choice though.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
One of my friends at work is going in September and taking her family of 6... only 3 are going to Disney because the boys aren't interested what Disney has to offer. So the Dad and 2 boys will go to Uni, while Mom and 2 girls go to Disney. If it wasn't for Uni, they wouldn't be going. Disney could have 6 spending but will only be 3. Kinda sad.

This scenario should terrify Disney executives. But I don't blame the boys for bailing on the Mouse.

WDW has become a pink sparkly princess palace now, while anyone over 4 feet tall with a Y chromosome is shunned and ignored. But they've got princesses and more princesses, Duffy The Disney Profit Generator, aging rides exiting into gift shops full of stuffed animals and puffy-paint t-shirts. Puke.

Cars Land would help. Star Wars would help. Marvel would help, but can't happen in Florida. Disney has ammo in their arsenal to bring the boys back into the Disney family. But they won't pull the trigger on Cars Land for boys aged 3 to 7, Marvel for boys aged 8 to 18, and Star Wars for boys aged 3 to 83. All three of those concepts should be under construction NOW! for WDW, but they aren't.

So now they've got nice American families splitting up and sending the girls to Disney World and the boys to Universal. Someone in TDO should lose their job for creating that scenario. Meg? Honey, are you listening?
 
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Goofnut1980

Well-Known Member
This scenario should terrify Disney executives. But I don't blame the boys for bailing on the Mouse. WDW has become a pink sparkly princess palace now, while anyone over 4 feet tall with a Y chromosome is shunned and ignored. But they've got princesses and more princesses, Duffy The Disney Profit Generator, aging rides exiting into gift shops full of stuffed animals and puffy-paint t-shirts. Puke.

Cars Land would help. Star Wars would help. Marvel would help, but can't happen in Florida. Disney has ammo in their arsenal to bring the boys back into the Disney family. But they won't pull the trigger on Cars Land for boys aged 3 to 7, Marvel for boys aged 8 to 18, and Star Wars for boys aged 3 to 83. All three of those concepts should be under construction NOW! for WDW, but they aren't.

So now they've got nice American families splitting up and sending the girls to Disney World and the boys to Universal. Someone in TDO should lose their job for creating that scenario. Meg? Honey, are you listening?

*bing* *bing* *bing* You have won a years stay in the Cinderella suite, complete with, when the sun goes down you are locked in till morning!! How exciting! lol

Couldn't have said that better myself! :D
 

Goofnut1980

Well-Known Member
If they're gonna price out the "little people" they'd better do it, and decrease the surplus population. And those who can no longer afford it should be boiled in their own pudding and buried.. :rolleyes:

This is going to sound mean and probably anger a few (trying not to), but maybe they are too under-priced. Maybe it should be higher for them to manage the crowds and clientel.
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
This is going to sound mean and probably anger a few (trying not to), but maybe they are too under-priced. Maybe it should be higher for them to manage the crowds and clientel.
People will just put themselves further in debt by paying more.. They need to do some creative work in discounting rooms, making it worth it to stay on site. Put that new fastpass system to work by giving on site guests more perks. extending park hours cant hurt either.

Also making attractions in all the parks can help too.. Epcot AK and DHS are suffering too, attraction wise.. adding a reason to spread the crowds to other parks is a great idea.
 
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Kman101

Well-Known Member
EPCOT to me should always be open until 11. Not 9PM. Have DHS stay open regularly until 10PM (this of course requires more things to do) and Animal Kingdom until 8PM or 9PM (in 2017 ... lol). Stagger the openings and closings. I'd say the MK until 11PM (of course adjust times for the really low periods, if they even exist anymore). But then people complain that the parks are open too late so maintenance and other things fall to the wayside.

Have early entry for hotel guests, 7am-9am to make up for no late night extra hours, except for the really crowded holidays and summertime.

Balance it out.

The problem is that all the parks close so everyone runs to the Magic Kingdom which typically stays open later. That's not good. The other parks just need more draws, plain and simple.
 

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