Disney Overcrowding: Hike Rates or Expand...what will they do?

[fosse76]

I would suggest leave pricing the same and do the following:
Require resort stay to purchase park ticket.

That's absurd. And it's irresponsible. The parks do not service the hotels, the hotels service the parks. Disney would lose a significant amount of revenue were they to do this. Any CEO or executive who even thinks to suggest this would be shown the door immediately.

Build additional resort and DVC capacity to match current attraction capacity in respect to stay to play island model.

They have an excess of available rooms. And to match attractions capacity, they'd have to demolish half of the resorts that currently exist.

Add attractions only after reaching 90% capacity for 3 consecutive quarters.

Capcity of what? Park capacity isn't a fixed number, it's based on varying factors that are fluid. One of which is attraction capacity.

Add additional resort DVC capacity at pace of additional attractionsattraction capacity.

You seem obsessed with DVC. Are you suggesting that only people who buy DVCs should only be allowed to visit the resort? That's ridiculous. In any event, they wouldn't need to ever build another resort again if the number of resorts need to keep up with attraction capacity.

The purpose of the parks is to provide vacation entertainment to people. In order to make money, they need to offer attractions (however you want to define them) that people feel are worth paying for. Most theme/amusement parks do this by continually adding new attractions. This drives more people through the gates. Disney wants to simply wants to make money without actually offering anything of substance by increasing prices. However, if those parks didn't exist, the resort hotels would have no purpose, since none of them offer anything you can't get in any other tourist hot spot (independent of the parks). Disney treats the parks almost as a perk of being hotel guests, as if the hotels are the destination (instead of the parks). And you seem to agree. Both you and Disney are wrong.

Disney is able to get away with such high pricing because they are a vacation destination, and so ingrained in pop culture that, as we have seen, they do not need to do much to get people through the gates. However, as Universal ups the ante, Disney is going to continue to lose guests. Disney's revenue has removed steady ONLY because of the price increases. But that is unsustainable as well unless they continue to exapnd the in-park offerings. I used to go to WDW three times a year. Then I decided to take a trip to DLR (pre-Carsland). I really loved it, so the following year I took only two trips to WDW and two to DLR. Last year I went to WDW once (and only because I had the premier pass, so I needed to get the value for it) and DLR 3 times. With all the price increases, I decided not to renew by AP and will only visit each resort once, and round out my vacation plans with Universal instead.

 

[bhg469]

How about giving admission to those who pay for the insane hotel prices? That way the guests will have more money to waste inside the gates and will feel obligated to stay on property and not realize that Universal is much more fun.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Since 2010 (opening of Harry Potter),has Disney World seen a spike in attendance or a decrease in attendance in comparision with Universal? Are there any stats to show visitors at the parks?

Also, will the fully functional New Fantasyland out draw the expanded Potter land? It will be fun to look at the numbers. Obviously we are talking about two different age segments. It's possible there are more families with younger kids that do theme park vacations, giving Disney a boost.

 

[Kman101]

And even with Universal price hikes, I still find it much more tolerable because I know they are investing in their product and they actually care about the guest experience and drawing in the audience they were lacking. It's the total opposite of Disney. I don't like to compare the two, but the business model, which Disney perfected, is now being used against them by everyone. Cedar Fair parks, Six Flags (well, maybe not but I don't go to those parks), Universal, Sea World. They believe in providing more of a bang for your buck. Although people have taken notice, there's not the same outcry for the price hikes as Disney gets. The actual news media (not bloggers and Tweeters) jumps over Disney for their price hikes but no one blinks an eye when anyone else does it. I wonder why ... If Universal hadn't done what they've done over the last few years, and it was the same dated, dead parks (sort of, just being a bit dramatic but not too far off) in say 2008, I'd be annoyed just as much by their price hikes.

I will still visit Disney, for now, but I can't justify them raising their prices at Epcot, AK or DHS because they simply are offering the exact same things as they did in say 2008, when you were paying much less.

And people are 'trained' to go to Disney World. It doesn't matter if they've added anything or not, people are still going to visit. The one-off guest isn't going to notice a lot of things and that's what TDO is banking (literally) on.

I think Disneyland is setting themselves up for future problems with their price hikes. They simply have a different audience and now they want to cater to that once in a life time visiter. It shouldn't ever have to be "one or the other". One guest shouldn't be punished for visiting the parks over the other. Sorry it's crowded, but that doesn't mean the loyal passholders should be punished for it.

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

This might ruffle some feathers but its my opinion. Disney needs to raise prices all down the line. That is based on, in my opinion and my opinion only, that right now Disney is to accessible to a lower class of consumer that in the 70's, 80's, 90's even the early 2000's Disney did not appeal to. I refuse to elaborate anymore than that, but its the truth.

 

[Kman101]

Those same people would still find a way to do it. Can they REALLY afford a $5000 trip to WDW? How much of that is credit cards? Some savings, some gift cards?

Making park entrance fees, say, $129 for a day, would still attract the same people. $200 for a day is far too extreme and would never go over well.

So I don't entirely disagree, actually, I just don't see it having that result.

 

[dupac]

Ugh. It's ridiculous when a Disney trip costs more than my overseas honeymoon. Raising prices without raising quality would price me out.

 

[jaklgreen]

This scenario should terrify Disney executives. But I don't blame the boys for bailing on the Mouse. WDW has become a pink sparkly princess palace now, while anyone over 4 feet tall with a Y chromosome is shunned and ignored. But they've got princesses and more princesses, Duffy The Disney Profit Generator, aging rides exiting into gift shops full of stuffed animals and puffy-paint t-shirts. Puke.

Cars Land would help. Star Wars would help. Marvel would help, but can't happen in Florida. Disney has ammo in their arsenal to bring the boys back into the Disney family. But they won't pull the trigger on Cars Land for boys aged 3 to 7, Marvel for boys aged 8 to 18, and Star Wars for boys aged 3 to 83. All three of those concepts should be under construction NOW! for WDW, but they aren't.

So now they've got nice American families splitting up and sending the girls to Disney World and the boys to Universal. Someone in TDO should lose their job for creating that scenario. Meg? Honey, are you listening?

I don't agree with you at all about Disney being a princess palace. The only things that would be considered just "girly" is the BBB and the princess meet and greet and those are newer additions compared to the age of the park. Every thing else is either gender neutral or "boy". Nobody seemed to complain about MK being too "boy" before they put those in. Girls were going on pirates and tom sawyer island and you didn't hear people whining about it. Don't punish girls because the "Y" chromosome do not have a broader interest and like to pigeon hole themselves into some kind of macho idea of what boys should and should not enjoy. And I have seen plenty of little boys with stuffed plutos or goofys. So Disney is not supposed to have anything in their gift shops that girls would like to buy because you don't want to look at it? If you really thought about it and listed all of the rides and attractions at MK you will see that very few are just "girly".

 

[Travel Junkie]

Fastpass and now FP+ have contributed to the overcrowding problem. Instead of waiting in line, visitors holding a FP are really in 2 lines at once. They are waiting for one ride in standby (or restaurant or shop) and also holding a virtual spot in another line. It has also greatly hurt the crowd flow of parks that were designed for visitors to explore one land then move to the next, whereas today people are criss crossing the park all day in unorganized patterns to not miss scheduled FP times.
Capacity has also taken a hit over the years. Disneyland for example starting in the Pressler days decreased park capacity by reducing the attraction count to save money and has never gotten it back. Capacity needs to be increased at all 6 U.S. parks.
Price hikes are the easy thing to sell corporate, but it is not the long term answer. They will eventually hit a breaking point, turn off too many customers. They need to increase park capacity. For WDW in particular they need to increase the desire to go somewhere else besides MK. Revamping DCA relieved some pressure on DL while growing the overall pie. Adding quality to the other 3 parks would greatly help MK.
They also need to get more creative with pricing to influence more people going in the off season. Hotels have varied pricing, why not park admission? Charge more for premium times like New Years and less for off season. You have more options during these busy times as additional entertainment is added to account for crowds, so why not charge a premium for it?
Disney needs to be more creative in how they influence visitors to come and when to come.

 

[DaveN1996]

In the credit card world we live in, will raising prices really make a difference to attendance?

 

[xstech25]

I don't think some people here remember they just put $1 billion into the Southern California property. Typically you don't see a project like a whole new theme park happen right after the company poured $1 bil into a massive renovation, there needs to be a period where they can sit back and actually make some money off that huge investment before they start digging into the earth on a new billion dollar project.

That being said considering the popularity i'm sure they do have a long term strategic plan, Bob Iger said something about a Star Wars land coming to both DLR and WDW awhile back and i'm sure there is more on the table they are just spreading out their money. Also the elephant in the room (Shanghai Disneyland) which Disney is footing the bill for half of (well over $2 billion) and has yet to make a dime.

 

[KingdomofDreams]

Personal opinion only... but if resort hotel attendance is down, it is due to the ridiculously high rates. I don't know of anyone who goes to WDW who doesn't want to stay in one of the onsite resorts. But they stay offsite because they can save money, and get so much more for their money offsite. If Disney wants to fill their own hotels to capacity, they need to keep the rates at a reasonable level and/or offer perks that people find very hard to resist. Example of this would be Universal. We have been staying onsite at Uni for years due to Express Pass. Being able to tour the parks at our own pace, going where we want, when we want, and just walking up to the EP entrance and ride, is a perk that is very hard to resist. Without a very low rate being offered, we wouldn't care at all if we stayed onsite at Uni were it not for EP.

As far as park capacity, yes you can add more attractions (and they definitely need to do this!) but ultimately you are dealing with a finite amount of space within a park and only so many people can comfortably navigate the walkways and congregate for parades, etc. When they admit too many people into a particular park on any given day, the experience is diluted for everyone, lines are out of control and people become stressed and frustrated. Personally, I would like to see Disney do something about their numbers for max capacity at the parks. I know they're a corporation and all about earnings, but at what point does the customer experience become at least somewhat of a priority?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Easy question. They will hike the rates. Next question.

 

[DisneyFreak23]

Of the two options provided, one will make the company more money while costing nothing, the other will cost the company a lot of money and provide arguably no new funding for many years. Disney of 25 years ago may have made a different decision but it seems very evident what the Disney of today will do.

Uh... How about Ka--Ching$$$ with rate hike over expansion.

 

[tirian]

What a gross misunderstanding of American culture.

Disney is less affordable to the masses than ever before. Those "classes" you're talking about probably make decent money. I've watched many Honey Boo-Boos unload their posses from Lexus SUVs.

Society itself has dropped since the 70s and 80s. Our culture has developed an attitude that we deserve the best of everything but don't need to respect each other in exchange. As a kid of the 90s, I know every PBS show and educational program told me I was the best at everything because I existed.

Money can't buy class. Prices don't matter. Disney is dealing with a societal shift, and can't do much more than expand the existing parks and enforce rules.

—and this doesn't begin to address the deep international discounts, varying school holidays, and year-round events that constantly drive crowds into the parks.

This battle isn't Disney's fault.

This might ruffle some feathers but its my opinion. Disney needs to raise prices all down the line. That is based on, in my opinion and my opinion only, that right now Disney is to accessible to a lower class of consumer that in the 70's, 80's, 90's even the early 2000's Disney did not appeal to. I refuse to elaborate anymore than that, but its the truth.

 

[erasure fan1]

Disney is going to raise prices until the bottom falls out, simple as that. So as long as people are showing up, there will be price increases with little reinvestment into the Florida parks. I really have no idea what the drop off point is, but I would guess its well past $130 a day and a 5 day pass with hopping is over $500. Its obvious people think its well worth the money so why would Disney not raise prices.

 

[drp4video]

I used to have an AP, live in Michigan, went 3 or 4 times a year. No more. In fact, I have not been since September of 2011. I love WDW and have been over 27 times since 2000 and September 2011, not to mention my visits before that time frame, but my upcoming vacation is coming up to London and Paris, for close to the same money. (airfare is what will make London and Paris cost more)

I still love Disney, but I look at the other options out there and the bang I can get for my buck. (I probably will go back to WDW perhaps next Winter, but only because I want to see the Harry Potter expansion at Universal).

 

[Duckberg]

What a gross misunderstanding of American culture.

Disney is less affordable to the masses than ever before. Those "classes" you're talking about probably make decent money. I've watched many Honey Boo-Boos unload their posses from Lexus SUVs.

Society itself has dropped since the 70s and 80s. Our culture has developed an attitude that we deserve the best of everything but don't need to respect each other in exchange. As a kid of the 90s, I know every PBS show and educational program told me I was the best at everything because I existed.

Money can't buy class. Prices don't matter. Disney is dealing with a societal shift, and can't do much more than expand the existing parks and enforce rules.

—and this doesn't begin to address the deep international discounts, varying school holidays, and year-round events that constantly drive crowds into the parks.

This battle isn't Disney's fault.

GOOD post!

 

[Disney6166]

The main overcrowding problem at WDW is the constant Festivals, Marathons, Special Weekends, and International Tour Groups that are here all the time now. For example it is Memorial Day Weekend which makes WDW already busy, they have Star Wars Weekends going on and families are already arriving because kids are out of school, the parks are packed. Disney has a contract with the Dance, Cheerleading, Pop Warner Football, Baseball, and every college sporting event you can imagine throughout the year. They have 10 marathons, Flower & Garden Festival, Food & Wine Festival, International Tour Groups, Spring Break, and all the Holidays. There is no time during the year that WDW is not busy anymore. The other posters are correct WDW Management has to get Epcot, HS, & AK some makeovers to dispurse the overcrowding.

 

[themarchhare]

It's TDO. 'Nuff said.