Disney Overcrowding: Hike Rates or Expand...what will they do?

[Lord_Vader]

I keep reading that Disney hotels are too expensive. I don't see that, at least not for the value resorts. We paid just over $90/night at POP last January (with a discount). I can't stay at a Choice, Holiday or comparable hotel/motel chain near a tourist city for under $100 night, even with corporate discounts I can get.

For example, I just paid a discounted $115 for a room near the Savannah, GA airport - 20 minutes from the river front area. Rooms in downtown Savannah were much higher. And, a room at a beach resort like Hilton Head is even more!

Disney Value resorts are a good value, IMHO. Now, moderates and deluxe are a lot more, and perhaps out of the price range of many. But, so are nicer hotels outside of Disney.

I am with you 100%, just paid $270/night for a hotel in downtown NOLA for a business trip. Nothing special hotel with fairly nice decor, comfortable room but nothing much nicer than a moderate room wise.

 

[Mr. Moderate]

A large Pixar place addition would go a very long way!

A lot of quality additions through the various IP's Disney owns and acquired, would go a long way and would certainly help not only the parks, the Disney company, the guests, overall tourism in the area, and Disney employees. It would be a win win for everyone. Too bad the current Disney management seems content on just getting by with what they have built years ago and only building DVC resorts, at a pretty quick pace I might add. Notice how quickly the GFV was built and how fast the Polynesian DVC is in the process of being built, yet almost nothing is being done to Epcot or DHS. As a diehard fan of the parks, I find it very discouraging on so many levels, to what direction the TDO has been going.

 

[WDWLover#1]

I just signed up to post this very same idea. If Disney was going to make a 5th gate at some point, a Star Wars themed park would be the closest thing to a slam dunk that you could get. Especially with all of the new movies, TV shows and other media that they have planned down the pipeline. Star Wars has a huge fanbase that will likely get bigger going forward, it will be a nice counterpoint to all of the princess stuff, and would be certain to draw crowds away from focusing on MK. They could even add an educational component by having exhibits themed after space/astronomy.

Regarding Hollywood Studios, I'd rather they increased the Pixar presence there.

The problem is in designing a star wars park and the universe is so complex and massive where the hell would they start? But I think that is what is gonna happen. A 5th gate will be Star Wars imo.

 

[danlb_2000]

Actually, in this case it was the theme, not the rides. The rides were already there pre-Potter. The big rollercoaster used to be Dueling Dragons, the Hogwarts castle was the queue for that coaster and the smaller coaster was the old Unicorn-themed family coaster. They actually just re-themed the old attractions.

I also think that you may be underestimating the draw of Star Wars. It's arguably the most popular IP in movies. I know people that have spent half they day near Star Tours building lightsabers in the shop. Trust me, if they build it, people will definitely come, whether it is an expanded version of Hollywood Studios or a new park.

Actually the signature ride, Harry Potter and Forbidden Journey is completely new and a very innovative ride. With that said, I agree that the theme is the big draw here. Harry Potter has a big following, and the land really immerses you in that world. If they had just built Forbidden Journey and nothing else I don't think it would have been as big a draw.

As for a Star Wars theme park, I am a huge Star Wars fan, and I think this is one of the few franchises that could potentially support that idea, but I still think it's a bad idea to build an entire park around a single IP. A single IP immediately creates a bias, if you aren't interested in the IP you aren't going to go. The park would also live and die by that IP, if the popularity drops for whatever reason, it would impact the park.

 

[Mouse_Trap]

Perhaps this may point to why Disney has an increasing attendance but is struggling to fill it's rooms.
This is UK pricing with the cheapest flights, call departing Jan 01 2015 for 14 nights, but converted to $.
per person, based on 2 sharing.

$1600 Cabana Bay
$2050 Royal Pacific
$2203 Hard Rock
$2315 Portofino bay

$1855 All Star Movies
$2030 Pop Century
$2385 Caribbean Beach
$2430 Port Orleans Riverside / French Quarter
$3435 Animal Kingdom Lodge
$4627 Polynesian Resort / Beach Club
$5010 Grand Floridian

$250 per person more to stay in the most basic accommodation, but Cabana Bay looks far better than the All Stars and is brand new.

Yes to stay in something like the Polynesian, is twice the entire vacation cost of exactly the same trip staying at the Portofino Bay. That is madness!

 

[natatomic]

And, after thinking about it, a SW Land in HS (or elsewhere) does not really make sense. Nor does that really fit into the Disney model. Quite honestly I don't think a large fanbase really justifies an entire land like Harry Potter. Is HP popular at Universal because of the theme or the rides? IMHO, it's the latter. Personally, I want a variety of themes that span across multiple genre of movies/shows/books. But, maybe I'm different...

Plus, HS should not have themed lands. It needs to remain generic from a Hollywood perspective. Yes, there could be one or two SW attractions, but not too many. HS needs variety. And, no way would I want Tomorrow Land completely changed. Putting a SW attraction in TL makes a lot of sense (Stitch replacement).

I dunno...what DOES make sense in HS these days? TSMM doesn't really make much sense. RnR? Not much sense there either. Even Tower of Terror doesn't really fit the original theme of the park. Hollywood Studios is suppose to be all stuff that represents the backstage part of movie and television making, right? All the glitz and glamor of Hollywood as well. Think Backlot Tour, Indian Jones Stunt Show, Animation Courtyard, Great Movie Ride. All the other rides I listed only fit in with the movie-making theme in the sense that they are based on movie/tv shows that were, uh...made. Except RnR. It just has the "backstage" part, but skips the whole movie aspect completely!

 

[jaklgreen]

Perhaps this may point to why Disney has an increasing attendance but is struggling to fill it's rooms.
This is UK pricing with the cheapest flights, call departing Jan 01 2015 for 14 nights, but converted to $.
per person, based on 2 sharing.

$1600 Cabana Bay
$2050 Royal Pacific
$2203 Hard Rock
$2315 Portofino bay

$1855 All Star Movies
$2030 Pop Century
$2385 Caribbean Beach
$2430 Port Orleans Riverside / French Quarter
$3435 Animal Kingdom Lodge
$4627 Polynesian Resort / Beach Club
$5010 Grand Floridian

$250 per person more to stay in the most basic accommodation, but Cabana Bay looks far better than the All Stars and is brand new.

Yes to stay in something like the Polynesian, is twice the entire vacation cost of exactly the same trip staying at the Portofino Bay. That is madness!

I'm sorry but you can not compare WDW to Universal. I know a lot of people here do but it is not the same thing at all. Yes Uni is a theme park like WDW but just even comparing the size and the actual offerings between the two is not even close to being comparable. Uni is more for older people with bigger "thrill" rides but WDW is for everyone. Grandma can go on a ride with junior and they all enjoy it. So of course prices are going to be higher for WDW hotels then Uni, you get more. Btw, I am going to London this summer and the hotel prices are ridiculous. Most nicer hotels in the city are $400 USD a night during August. And that is just a standard hotel in the city and they only have those time little single beds like we are all the size of children. So for your Cabana Bay price for 14 nights you get 4 nights in London. I wouldn't complain about WDW hotel prices!

 

[Mouse_Trap]

I'm sorry but you can not compare WDW to Universal. I know a lot of people here do but it is not the same thing at all. Yes Uni is a theme park like WDW but just even comparing the size and the actual offerings between the two is not even close to being comparable. Uni is more for older people with bigger "thrill" rides but WDW is for everyone. Grandma can go on a ride with junior and they all enjoy it. So of course prices are going to be higher for WDW hotels then Uni, you get more. Btw, I am going to London this summer and the hotel prices are ridiculous. Most nicer hotels in the city are $400 USD a night during August. And that is just a standard hotel in the city and they only have those time little single beds like we are all the size of children. So for your Cabana Bay price for 14 nights you get 4 nights in London. I wouldn't complain about WDW hotel prices!

Sorry, maybe it come across wrong. I wasn't trying to compare the two per say....but just illustrate maybe why Disney is struggling to fill its rooms.

Deducting the price of the flights, the Poly works out at around $560 a night, Portofino at $230.
I'm afraid many people are going to struggle to look past such a huge price discrepancy. Is the Poly really worth 2.5x Portofino?

Personally, I would take the Universal hotel and just travel to Disney many days. I don't get your explanation that you get more at Disney than Universal because of the rides. Surely that's seperate to the hotel price? Paying for a Disney hotel doesn't give you any significant advantage in the parks - and certainly not in January.

London is another issue, I agree it's horribly expensive - I was there today outside the Houses of Parliament and Big Ben. August is also a bad time price wise. Summer in the UK doesn't last long, August is probably the best bet & all the kids are off school for the entire month too. I'm not sure where you are looking to stay and the dates, but I can book some very nice hotels for about $250 a night - Double Tree Hilton at the Tower of London or the Waldorf at Soho for instance.

 

[jaklgreen]

Sorry, maybe it come across wrong. I wasn't trying to compare the two per say....but just illustrate maybe why Disney is struggling to fill its rooms.

Deducting the price of the flights, the Poly works out at around $560 a night, Portofino at $230.
I'm afraid many people are going to struggle to look past such a huge price discrepancy. Is the Poly really worth 2.5x Portofino?

Personally, I would take the Universal hotel and just travel to Disney many days. I don't get your explanation that you get more at Disney than Universal because of the rides. Surely that's seperate to the hotel price? Paying for a Disney hotel doesn't give you any significant advantage in the parks - and certainly not in January.

London is another issue, I agree it's horribly expensive - I was there today outside the Houses of Parliament and Big Ben. August is also a bad time price wise. Summer in the UK doesn't last long, August is probably the best bet & all the kids are off school for the entire month too. I'm not sure where you are looking to stay and the dates, but I can book some very nice hotels for about $250 a night - Double Tree Hilton at the Tower of London or the Waldorf at Soho for instance.

We actually got a decent price at the Park Plaza Victoria and they had full size beds! LOL It's still crazy expensive for Americans to go to England with the currency conversion. WDW is my happy place and I always stay on property, mostly POFQ. I think being there and not having to worry about driving and having pretty much everything you need in one spot is a big draw for me to go to WDW over other places. I always have to go to WDW at least once a year.

 

[BrerJon]

In theory Star Wars land makes sense, if it was done with the level of detail and theming that Wizarding World is, but whereas Universal always goes to town with details and small things that add up, no expense spared, in contrast Disney has a reputation for cheaping out and building the minimum to cut costs.

In the last few years Universal has become the park for high-quality theming, Disney parks nowadays tend towards cheap clone rides with broken parts and a low level of theming, so I'd worry that they'd build a Dino-Rama style Star Wars land then wonder why it doesn't get the crowds Potter does.

New Harambe and New Fantasyland give hopeful signs that Disney is learning lessons from the park up the road, but given the last few years my trust in TDO to deliver on the potential at the moment is pretty minimal.

 

[bugsbunny]

I was DL on a Sunday about a month ago on a 1 day visit. I concur with the article that the locals overwhelm the parks on Sunday. It took me 45 minutes just to purchase at the outside booths. Every booth was 40 people deep and each transaction took a ridiculous long time. This was caused by the change in the annual pass mentioned in the article and having to be explained to each local as the came to the window trying to purchase one, etc.

Regardless, the parks were just absolutely packed for a late Sunday afternoon. 120 minute waits for Radiator Springs Racers and California Screamin. Waited 25 minutes in the single rider line at CS and it didnt even move. Soarin wsa 60 minutes and that was the actual time from getting in line until I rode it. Every line everywhere to get a drink or a snack was 20 people long. So I completely get why DL has cut off the AP for Sundays.

Being a long time WDW and DL visiter, I would equate my crowd experience that day to what I've seen during Easter or Xmas break at WDW. Just not even worth going.

And will they build a new park or raise ticket prices? That's hilarious! Raise prices, of course. Ain't NEVER EVER building another gate at WDW. The money is in raising prices, developing new unique costly experiences (like Harambe Nights, special events) using the existing infrastructure, and getting long term revenue streams like DVCs. Building a new park is a 20 year investment to recoup. Why do that when you can farm your existing base to death?

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Disneyland is going to implode like the Poltergeist house unless they remove the bodies.

 

[Gregoryp73]

Actually, they should expand DL....

I would love to see a Sci-Fi/Fantasy Heros and Legends themed park...
SW, Avatar, Marvel, Tron...maybe with a little Pixar (incredibles/wall-e) thrown in.

All underdeveloped properties (except for the new avatar stuff) ripe for the picking...

 

[AEfx]

I just don't see the draw of a SW themed park. I love Star Wars (I was in high school when the original movie came out), but I can't see the attraction of a park with a SW theme.

Oh, I heartily disagree on that one. There are so many possibilities, it's just endless - between dinner shows at Jabba's Palace (people pay $50 for bacon and eggs at Sci Fi Drive In with Star Wars stuff showing on the screen, they'd pay a heck of a lot more to eat dinner at Jabba's court with a show - $100-$150/plate and that place would still be tougher to get into than Cindy's), rides, walk-throughs, meet and greets that would put the Princesses to shame - it would attract a world-wide audience.

That's the thing - you have to realize, so many people travel for SWW and it's really just a merchandise event with some added meet and greets. That so many folks are willing to do so just to buy some stuff and meet some characters is really indicative of the demand that is there. And when you couple that with the fact that Star Wars fans are huge purchasers of merchandise (I'd be willing to bet the average guest at SWW spends 3-5 times, or more, in a day on "stuff" than the average guest), which we know is a huge motivator for Disney. And with all the cross-breeds of Disney and Muppet characters in Star Wars merch, it's really endless.

And, let's not forget - I know a lot of folks may not be keeping up with what Disney is doing with SW/EPVII/etc., but Disney is doing everything they can to make it 1983 again. Aside from the Sequel Trilogy, in between years will be solo films - there will be a huge Star Wars film in theaters once a year at least until 2020, and that's just what we know of the plan so far. They plan on bringing Star Wars back in a huge way, they are doing everything they can to court the older audience (the ones with the $) - the very audience that Disney has lost to Universal and other experiences because of the focus on "kid" content. They know, the kids will come anyway - but to excite the parents (and grandparents) to do so is what is missing at Disney right now. According to Disney stock holder reports, Disney plans on exploiting Star Wars for the next forty (40!) years.

Star Wars isn't just the Potter Swatter - it's the Potter Thermal Detonator.

I don't see how sales of videos or even attendance at theaters can or will equate to attendance at a themed land in an amusement park. Not to spark the old Star Trek vs Star Wars debates (I love both and hold neither higher than the other), but consider that the Trekie fanbase is at least as large and excited as the Star Wars fanbase. Yet, Universal no longer has a Star Trek attraction...?

Leaving any creative differences aside (there really is no SWvsST debate any more, they are both very different franchises, they only seem the same to folks who don't watch either), financially that couldn't be further from the truth. The last two rebooted Star Trek films have done very well, thankfully, but overall even with them the Trek franchise is far, far less financially lucrative than Star Wars. It's not even in the same ball park when you look at things like merchandising, etc. Trek also a largely US phenomenon - it definitely has pockets of fans in various countries (Germany, in particular) but it's nowhere near the world-wide phenomenon as Star Wars. People would literally come from all over the world for a Star Wars theme park.

The new films are made for a wider, action-film audience (no complaints from me on that, unlike some folks), but it's not really being handled as a "franchise" at this point as they are a recurring action movie series. And before then, Star Trek films died a slow death, because even though they were relatively low-budget to begin with, they at least used to make enough to make that worth it - and the last few whittled that down so as to have effectively killed the franchise until the reboot into this new format.

So, comparing raisins to oranges, LOL.

 

[seascape]

Econ101 - Supply and Demand.

No, this is not about a greedy corporation. Disney is a for-profit entity, of course. Making money is their primary objective, as it should be. And, like any service business, they know that the guest experience is also important. Too many crowds and you have unhappy people in attendance. Net result is a decrease in attendance, which means a decrease in revenue. OTOH, if you raise prices, you also get a decrease in attendance, but that is offset by an increase in revenue. And, the guest experience at the parks is improved, which means return guests. Find the right balance between price and attendance, and you are able to bring in enough revenue to support expansions.

Yes, this will price some people out of being able to go to Disney. Sorry... Disney is not an experiment in Socialism. Not everyone will be able to enjoy Disney. Of course, not everyone can afford $50+ to attend a three-hour NFL game, nor can everyone afford the airfare to visit Paris, Rio, Sydney or Moscow, either.

The real goal of a company is long term growth and profits not short term. The daily stock price may depend on the quarterly profits but most stockholders are long term investment and look at the long term. That is why even there have been cost overruns for next gen most long term investors are extremely happy with Iger. He has made sure that the infrastructure is there for further growth while at the same time increased profits at all the divisions. Again I know there a lot of people here who only look at WDW but the parks are doing very well and WDW will get its share of capital.

 

[GenerationX]

DL just needs a bouncer at the gate deciding who gets in.

 

[michael.fumc]

A large Pixar place addition would go a very long way!

With incredible 2 on its way I say go for it with them, Pixar sequels are a CAN'T miss, and I think DHS need for something great ( Star Wars needs to happen to) but make an incredible attraction and have it open when the sequel is in theaters