News Disney mask policy at Walt Disney World theme parks

[marymarypoppins]

I guess I'm funny that way, wanting to protect my kid from getting covid. Kids under 18 who get covid are more than 2.5 times likely to develop diabetes.

That's just me, though.

So by all means protect your child how you see fit but give that same opportunity to other parents who don't want to mask their children for various reasons.

 

[G00fyDad]

So by all means protect your child how you see fit but give that same opportunity to other parents who don't want to mask their children for various reasons.

Fine but it should not be called child abuse when someone does decide to harmlessly protect their child with a mask. No one is going around saying that those who choose not to use a mask with their kids are trying to kill them.

 

[marymarypoppins]

Fine but it should not be called child abuse when someone does decide to harmlessly protect their child with a mask. No one is going around saying that those who choose not to use a mask with their kids are trying to kill them.

that's not all true! I have seen insults hurled in both directions.

 

[JoeCamel]

If you are looking for N95 masks you can buy directly through 3M and it will be delivered by one of their partners. About $1.20 a mask but the shipping on a box of 20 is $14. Total delivered to me is $43.xx so not cheap but you know what you are getting and they have stock.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000585997/

 

[TehPuddingMan]

View attachment 613595
Surely, we can trust JHU.

That’s one doctor at JHU. Should I listen to Dr. Ding because he was at Harvard?

Again. You wore masks and still got Covid.

 

[Purduevian]

Yes, it does matter. Degree of benefit matters.
There are a myriad of things that we can do to save lives all across this country.
But we don't do many of them because there is a cost/benefit ratio.
I continuously bring up the cardio vascular issues in this country but few people seem to care about those deaths, and I get chided here every time I mention the subject.
We can make stricter cycling laws, swimming laws, driving regulations...

Another subject change? Please don't fall into Whataboutism logical fallacy. Cardio Vascular issues should be looked at, but that seems like a completely different subject than masks at WDW.

On the subject of masks at WDW, I'll agree with you that the cost/benefit ratio does matter and I was probably overstepping my point when I tried to make a point that the benefit does not matter at all. It does matter, but I was trying to point out that the cost of the current policy is so low, any potential benefit would almost certainly outweigh the costs. So lets look at the costs and benefits:
Costs:

• Potential slight discomfort of guests for 15-30 minutes at a time at WDW that choose to go indoors.
• Pictures taken at indoor venues at WDW do not fully show faces.

Benefits:

• An unknown amount of protection against the omicron variant transmission.
• A known, decent amount of protection against other variants that are still around, including delta

How many lives would need to be saved for the current mask policy to be worth it? Personally I think if there is even a chance it saves one life the current policy should stay.

 

[ToTBellHop]

That’s one doctor at JHU. Should I listen to Dr. Ding because he was at Harvard?

Again. You wore masks and still got Covid.

It was shared onto JHU’s social media, so they stand behind it.

Honestly, I listen to faculty at Yale, where I went to grad school. I have easy access to people with Ph.D.s in epidemiology and public health. But I was attempting to avoid name dropping because it irritates people for some reason.

We wore masks and caught mild COVID. Masks limit viral load delivered to a new host.

It’s generally safe to trust faculty at the most prestigious research universities on earth as long as they are discussing topics in their wheelhouse. You don’t really find much better research scientists than those at JHU. And JHU won’t give a professorship named for the late, great Desmond Tutu to some schmuck.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

From the CDC there is a key word on the page:

"SARS-CoV-2 infection might also induce newly diagnosed diabetes."

It's also possible that kids under 18 who were going be diagnosed with diabetes are 2.5 times more likely to have a symptomatic COVID infection which is tested for. That could lead to the same statistical result.

That is 100% legit. A coworker of mine started losing weight after COVID about Feb of 2020. Went to the doctor, and was told he is diabetic. 57 years old and never had a blood sugar problem before. Crazy stuff

 

[TehPuddingMan]

It was shared onto JHU’s social media, so they stand behind it.

Honestly, I listen to faculty at Yale, where I went to grad school. I have easy access to people with Ph.D.s in epidemiology and public health. But I was attempting to avoid name dropping because it irritates people for some reason.

We wore masks and caught mild COVID. Masks limit viral load delivered to a new host.

It’s generally safe to trust faculty at the most prestigious research universities on earth as long as they are discussing topics in their wheelhouse. You don’t really find much better research scientists than those at JHU. And JHU won’t give a professorship named for the late, great Desmond Tutu to some schmuck.

My grad school is not as prestigious as Yale but I studied public policy and its effect on the populace.

Can you please ask your friends why masking and vaccine passport policy had no effect in New York?

I am surprised you credit your mild Covid to wearing a mask. That’s a rather anti-vaccination stance.

 

[danlb_2000]

Reduces by how much?
Under what circumstances?
They certainly show some benefit of blocking exhalation under controlled circumstances in the lab.
We have no idea the impact mask wearing as performed by the public helps.

"reduces" "probability" "if" "more mild"

Here is an article about a large real world study done in India, pre-Omicron...

Face masks for COVID pass their largest test yet

A rigorous study finds that surgical masks are highly protective, but cloth masks fall short.

www.nature.com

Basically they took a bunch of villages provided and promoted masks in some, and not in others. The study villages (one where masks were promoted) had a 43% rate of mask usage, the control villages 13% usage. The study villages showed a 9% less symptomatic cases then the control villages. Might not seem like a lot, but that was from only a 30% increase in mask usage, and when you look at 9% across a large population, you get some big numbers.

 

[JoeCamel]

Yes, it does matter. Degree of benefit matters.
There are a myriad of things that we can do to save lives all across this country.
But we don't do many of them because there is a cost/benefit ratio.
I continuously bring up the cardio vascular issues in this country but few people seem to care about those deaths, and I get chided here every time I mention the subject.
We can make stricter cycling laws, swimming laws, driving regulations...

So you don't want anyone to die?
That would be a problem....

 

[ToTBellHop]

My grad school is not as prestigious as Yale but I studied public policy and its effect on the populace.

Can you please ask your friends why masking and vaccine passport policy had no effect in New York?

I am surprised you credit your mild Covid to wearing a mask. That’s a rather anti-vaccination stance.

I also wear a seatbelt AND drive a car with airbags.

Perhaps masks and vaccinations have an additive, protective effect? But I don’t think anyone would suggest masks are anywhere near as impactful as vaccinations.

 

[lnsemsf]

How many lives would need to be saved for the current mask policy to be worth it? Personally I think if there is even a chance it saves one life the current policy should stay.

Since we don’t know that even one life will be saved, this is not a valid point. Would you agree then that Disney should stop selling all French fries, burgers, and anything high in cholesterol and fat? If it saves 1 life they should do it, right?

 

[DisneyCane]

Here is an article about a large real world study done in India, pre-Omicron...

Face masks for COVID pass their largest test yet

A rigorous study finds that surgical masks are highly protective, but cloth masks fall short.

www.nature.com

Basically they took a bunch of villages provided and promoted masks in some, and not in others. The study villages (one where masks were promoted) had a 43% rate of mask usage, the control villages 13% usage. The study villages showed a 9% less symptomatic cases then the control villages. Might not seem like a lot, but that was from only a 30% increase in mask usage, and when you look at 9% across a large population, you get some big numbers.

Not only pre-omicron but they determined use of surgical masks made some improvement. From the article:

The study’s authors found that surgical masks — but not cloth masks — reduced transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in villages where the research team distributed face masks and promoted their use.

Since we are discussing the mask policy at WDW and they require a "face covering" and cloth is acceptable, their policy doesn't accomplish anything other than make some people "feel" safer. Pre-omicron you needed at least a surgical mask which they didn't require and now you need an N95 to make a significant difference.

 

[DisneyHead123]

So by all means protect your child how you see fit but give that same opportunity to other parents who don't want to mask their children for various reasons.

I agree. After doing some Doom Googling, I'm concerned about CO2 levels when children wear face masks. Most articles I've read give reassurance that the increase in levels aren't that significant, but to my mind this doesn't jive with studies showing that merely living "downwind" of a highway can decrease a student's test scores or that breathing in phytoncides (being around plants, essentially) can impact humans fairly substantially. It seems to me that humans are extremely sensitive to air quality in other situations that have been studied, I just don't see how upping carbon dioxide levels, even a small amount, for hours and hours a day can be casually dismissed as clearly having no effect.

On the other side, the risk of unknown side effects from Covid (like, as mentioned upthread, diabetes,) are of course horrible for parents to think about.

If there were a fairly clear consensus on the risks and benefits of masks for young children it would be different - right now I do think it really is the wild west when it comes to information on the topic. Everyone is winging it, to some degree, and parents have to do the best they can with available information.

 

[DisneyCane]

I also wear a seatbelt AND drive a car with airbags.

Perhaps masks and vaccinations have an additive, protective effect? But I don’t think anyone would suggest masks are anywhere near as impactful as vaccinations.

The seatbelt analogy for masks is not valid yet people keep using it. It can be scientifically proven that if you wear a seatbelt it will reduce your risk of serious injury in a car accident by an enormous amount. A COVID seatbelt analogy would be that wearing a seatbelt is like getting vaccinated.

Just like with vaccines, in some percentage of accidents they won't prevent serious injuries. An analogy between vehicle safety and cloth masks would be more like your kid wears a seatbelt but you stick your arm out to hold them when slamming on the breaks. The seatbelt is like the vaccine and your arm is like the cloth mask. The seatbelt protected the kid not your arm.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree. After doing some Doom Googling, I'm concerned about CO2 levels when children wear face masks. Most articles I've read give reassurance that the increase in levels aren't that significant, but to my mind this doesn't jive with studies showing that merely living "downwind" of a highway can decrease a student's test scores or that breathing in phytoncides (being around plants, essentially) can impact humans fairly substantially. It seems to me that humans are extremely sensitive to air quality in other situations that have been studied, I just don't see how upping carbon dioxide levels, even a small amount, for hours and hours a day can be casually dismissed as clearly having no effect.

On the other side, the risk of unknown side effects from Covid (like, as mentioned upthread, diabetes,) are of course horrible for parents to think about.

If there were a fairly clear consensus on the risks and benefits of masks for young children it would be different - right now I do think it really is the wild west when it comes to information on the topic. Everyone is winging it, to some degree, and parents have to do the best they can with available information.

You can go buy a oximeter and test if wearing a mask makes a notable difference.

 

[DisneyHead123]

You can go buy a oximeter and test if wearing a mask makes a notable difference.

Oximeters aren’t sensitive enough to detect the impact of pollution, yet other studies say this level of change in air quality is consequential though.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Ugh. Someone told me not to come look at this thread and they were right. It’s a toxic dump heap of misinformation. I should have listened.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Wearing a mask kept you out of the hospital? Please explain.

Viral load.