Disney Management LIES?! How Management cheated to kill an Epcot Attraction!

[dxwwf3]

Every attraction in Disney has been considered for a temporary or permanent closing."

Well I certainly learned that lesson in October of 2003 :lol:

So I guess I must urge everyone to enjoy their favorite attractions as many times as they can. NO attraction is safe anymore. Before you know it there will be a construction wall around your favorite thing and they only thing you can say is "Wha' Happened". :animwink:

 

[BigNorm]

Well I certainly learned that lesson in October of 2003 :lol:

So I guess I must urge everyone to enjoy their favorite attractions as many times as they can. NO attraction is safe anymore. Before you know it there will be a construction wall around your favorite thing and they only thing you can say is "Wha' Happened". :animwink:

Heed dx's warning! I was told AE wasn't going anywhere, I believe he said it's "going to be around for a while," so I decided to pass it by in August 2003. Now my heart is filled with regret .

Nothing is sacred, nothing is safe. :lookaroun

 

[Figment1986]

How could Disney have considdered closing SE.... That is the most popular attraction... Everyone knows it is there and loves it... I love it, Why considder closing that ride or WOL.... (Doesn't Disney have extra cash for both facilities...)

(Oh, and how did u get the X-files music to play in the music...)

 

[HauntedPirate]

On the day of the resort guest hours, Disney decided that they either wanted to close SPACESHIP EARTH or WONDERS OF LIFE "for good."

To justify what they wanted, they only looked at the 9am-12PM statistics... for that day.

As one insider said, "When it wants to, Disney can make its own statistics to submit to high ups. They'll submit a couple hours from a slow day just because the high-ups just aren't in the parks like guests are. Every attraction in Disney has been considered for a temporary or permanent closing."

Ok, maybe it's simply my stupidity (some call it common sense) - why wouldn't a manager, when presented with data from one day ask "Let's see more data, maybe it was a bad day" before deciding to CLOSE AN ENTIRE ATTRACTION ?!?!?! Are managers at Disney that stupid, or that ignorant? You can't possibly refute this: making a decision to close an attraction based on one day's... hell, three hours worth of attendance data is just plain stupid.

 

[se8472]

Ok, maybe it's simply my stupidity (some call it common sense) - why wouldn't a manager, when presented with data from one day ask "Let's see more data, maybe it was a bad day" before deciding to CLOSE AN ENTIRE ATTRACTION ?!?!?! Are managers at Disney that stupid, or that ignorant? You can't possibly refute this: making a decision to close an attraction based on one day's... hell, three hours worth of attendance data is just plain stupid.

I don't think we are getting the entire story on this one.

Not to gang up on the grizz but,

One thing I must ask is this....SE is a ride where people sit down and watch while WoL is a whole people with a few things going on in it.

Now I am not trying to throw anything anywhere but I would think that WoL would always have more people inside of it then SE just due to teh fact that you really just can't walk around SE (yes I know about the post show that isn't there anymore but that is not even half the size of WoL)

Now....every ride/building, or just about every ride/building, has a number it needs to hit per day to see if its running at good number of butts.

Lets just say that in that SE was suppost to have say 600 people while WoL was suppost to have 1,200 people....if SE was still having say 590 and WoL was having 987, I think SE is doing a better job that night and thus would close over WoL

SE and WoL are just 2 very large diffrent things to me....its like compairing M:S with Seas...

 

[DMC-12]

On the day of the resort guest hours, Disney decided that they either wanted to close SPACESHIP EARTH or WONDERS OF LIFE "for good."

For some reason... I am having a hard time seeing them wanting to close the parks' "Icon".

 

[dxwwf3]

For some reason... I am having a hard seeing them wanting to close the parks "Icon".

I thought the wand was the "icon"?



:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Little Mermaid]

I think it all comes down to the direction in which management wants to take Epcot as a whole...do they want to keep the focus on entertaining forms of education, or do they want to change the focus to thrills with less emphasis on the education? WoL was so special because of its message about life and health. There was a pavillion for land, a pavillion for sea, a pavillion for energy, a pavillion for motion, a pavillion for communication, a pavillion for imagination, a pavillion for the future...a pavillion dedicated to the processes of life fit perfectly.

I will agree that WoL is due for some changes. Our knowledge of the health sciences has grown so much in the past decade, surely that knowledge could be easily incorporated into the pavillion through some minor changes, with the more major changes occuring as they fit into the budget. But as a young woman majoring in biology in college, and as a future doctor, I cannot believe that a pavillion dedicated to life does not belong in Epcot.

The bottom line is, if Disney does not have a plan for what to DO with WoL after they close it, it should not be closed. It will be absolutely senseless to have a repeat of the 20K mess--a valuable piece of real estate sitting there for years. Before any action is taken, they need a plan.

Just my opinion. :wave:

 

[niteobsrvr]

A Restaurant's popularity is judged in part by how long you have to wait to get a table. The longer the wait the more popular the restaurant is to the public. When the wait gets real low at peak times, management starts to look for ways to improve the chain's appeal to the public.

Rides at amusement parks are judged in a similar manner. If people aren't waiting the ride isn't popular. You can't judge by total attendance on a particular attraction because different rides have different operating capacities per hour and thus per day.

You also can't do an accurate measure during non-peak season because nearly everything becomes walk on anyway. So the real question here is on July 3rd what is the wait for Test Track vs. WOL Body Wars. If it is still walk on or less than 15 mins, the ride just isnt popular. The highest priced investment in WOL is Body Wars, if it isnt producing a return on investment then the whole pavilion is failing as everything else is "b" attractions.

I can't speak for what happened on a test magic hour night. I am sure management has their reasons whether we understand them or not. I can tell you that Disney has a set of formula that they use to evaluate every attraction everyday and when the numbers start to drop off for longer periods, management begins to question why, questions guests as to why, and then forms a game plan. Sometimes they refurbish a ride/attraction and sometimes they remove it.

 

[lentesta]

We've done data collection at Epcot for the past three years, and I can't remember a time when any of the WoL attractions had a wait time of more than fifteen minutes. And we measure those wait times every 30 minutes from park open to close, several straight days, several times per year.

In fact, if you have an old version of the Unofficial Guide, you'll notice that Body Wars went from being the third attraction in the touring plan in 2003 (indicating a really popular ride) to number 14 in 2005, essentially a "go anytime" recommendation. So the computer software we're using for scheduling has noticed that there's no great rush to hit those attractions.

Hope this helps. Grizz, I'd like to hear your take on why Disney can't keep sponsors in the Epcot pavilions. That, to me, is the bigger long-term question. Also, when's Kodak bailing out of Epcot? Isn't that any week now?

Len

 

[Pixie Duster]

Grizz not everything having to do with Epcot is some conspiracy theory. I know you are upset over it's closure, but seriously I just feel it's getting out of hand. I am not being rude. I am just being honest about how a feel.
Change is the only constant in life. No hospitality establishment can be all things to all people. Attendance to WoL was low in comparisson to other parts of the park. Management is going to see that as a weekness. I am not saying management is perfect, but it is by no means a bunch of Montgomery Burns sitting around the table drinking blood and coming up with more and more ways to ruin Epcot and other guest experiences.

 

[speck76]

The Walt Disney Company is a business.

A business has a responsibility to make money for its owners (shareholders)

Sometimes, difficult decisions will be made to better the business.

There is nothing you or any army can do about it, except to no longer utilize that business.

Stop complaining about the way the company operates unless you are willing to take this step, and punish the company.

 

[KevinPage]

I am not saying management is perfect, but it is by no means a bunch of Montgomery Burns sitting around the table drinking blood and coming up with more and more ways to ruin Epcot and other guest experiences.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think Grizz was hit by Eisner's bulldozer over the weekend :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Interesting Reading

To say that reading all these posts has been interesting might be understating the obvious. Where to start. I've been saddened over the past several years when reminiscing about rides that are long gone now. Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, 20K, If You Had Wings, etc. But change is a big part of life. Do I agree with all of the changes over the years? No, but it doesn't mean that they haven't worked out for the Big Picture. Anyone there could say, "Well, when I went on it, it was nearly empty!" That doesn't really matter. What matters is return on investment. You could equate it like this:

Golf courses tend to lay off and go low on payroll during their "winter months". Now, there are crazy people out there that would play in snow if they could, but fact is, you couldn't get enough play/maintenance on a golf course each to pay the bills. And that's the bottom line here. If you can't pay the overhead to run it on a daily basis, then it's not helping, it's hurting. And rehabs cost money too. How much? Who knows? But it would be like you saying, "well, I can invest 20,000 plus labor for upgrades in my house, or I could just sell and move into a new house."

Now given all the trouble associated with "rehabbing" your house, isn't it easier to build a new one, with all the latest gadgets? That's kinda the way I look at these situations. Not to say that I agree with them, cause I don't always. But I try to understand that times change, as do trends, and people. And if we want Disney to survive the long haul, then we've got to be willing to accept some of these changes as benefits for the parks overall health.

 

[Pixie Duster]

Lovely. Well said and intelligent.

 

[speck76]

And rehabs cost money too. How much? Who knows? But it would be like you saying, "well, I can invest 20,000 plus labor for upgrades in my house, or I could just sell and move into a new house."

Now given all the trouble associated with "rehabbing" your house, isn't it easier to build a new one, with all the latest gadgets? That's kinda the way I look at these situations. Not to say that I agree with them, cause I don't always. But I try to understand that times change, as do trends, and people. And if we want Disney to survive the long haul, then we've got to be willing to accept some of these changes as benefits for the parks overall health.

You are feeding into my longtime, frequently said point that their is little/no return on investment with rehabs. Guests are not going to flock to the park to see a new ending on SSE compared to the way they have returned to the park to experience MS. The general public does not care if the AA is the latest generation or not....

 

[niteobsrvr]

You are feeding into my longtime, frequently said point that their is little/no return on investment with rehabs. Guests are not going to flock to the park to see a new ending on SSE compared to the way they have returned to the park to experience MS. The general public does not care if the AA is the latest generation or not....

There is a reason other parks around the country add one major attrraction a year most of the time. And, Disney has lifted thebar so high on attractons that people will settle for nothing less than multi-multi-million dollar attractions to entice them in to coming back.

There is a reason Disney pushes the magic, pixie dust, and personalization both internally and commercially. Disney is the only Company that has the financial resources to build truly spectacular attractions but they can't do it every year. In between major projects and waiting on projects to be completed, the only thing that sets them apart is their ability to make the guest feel special.

 

[mkt]

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Brad,

I agree with your points on business, but you must remember that how many other businesses out there do people get an emotional attachment to. I don't know of a single one.

While I agree that management does have a business to run, they still have to remember who their clientele is at all angles and try to do as much to appease them.

Perfect example - OLC/Tokyo Disney Resort. They keep their classics running, while adding new attractions in space where people said they couldn't fit anything. When they take a classic down for rehab, they upgrade the technologies involved while keeping the show itself primarily intact.

And they get rewarded with record-breaking attendance year after year. Even in 2001, a year which saw worldwide tourism falter, they still had record attendance AND opened a new park.

Disney is not your average company, to be ran properly, you have to give the true fan what they want while satisfying the average guest. There is more to it than short term profits and revenue. Disney needs to stop looking for more MBA's and finance students to run its parks and find more art students and PHd's to bring on board.

 

[General Grizz]

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There are black helicopters circling the Hall.

<embed src="http://www.qubefactor.com/~wdwmedia/mkt/files/xfiles.mid" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1" LOOP="false" AUTOSTART="1">

I can hear them! I am evacuating and am on the run! :lol:

WOW, there are so many replies, but I am tied up for the night. To give you all justice for what you have written, I will read your posts thoroughly next time I am on the boards for a good time. I've already skimmed a few points and definitely appreciate the time you are taking to explain your views.

That being said, goodnight. . . and look out for the helicopters!

 

[dxwwf3]

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Brad,

I agree with your points on business, but you must remember that how many other businesses out there do people get an emotional attachment to. I don't know of a single one.

While I agree that management does have a business to run, they still have to remember who their clientele is at all angles and try to do as much to appease them.

Perfect example - OLC/Tokyo Disney Resort. They keep their classics running, while adding new attractions in space where people said they couldn't fit anything. When they take a classic down for rehab, they upgrade the technologies involved while keeping the show itself primarily intact.

And they get rewarded with record-breaking attendance year after year. Even in 2001, a year which saw worldwide tourism falter, they still had record attendance AND opened a new park.

Disney is not your average company, to be ran properly, you have to give the true fan what they want while satisfying the average guest. There is more to it than short term profits and revenue. Disney needs to stop looking for more MBA's and finance students to run its parks and find more art students and PHd's to bring on board.

EXCELLENT POST!

I agree with every point. You better believe there is an emotional attachment involved. And I wish the US parks were in good enough shape to where we could do the same thing the Japan parks are doing. Hopefully Disney tries to do the right thing and does what they think is best for their guests.