Disney Management LIES?! How Management cheated to kill an Epcot Attraction!

[mkt]

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Grizz... I can hear them!! AHH!!! It's Mulder and Scully

 

[mkt]

For some reason... I am having a hard time seeing them wanting to close the parks' "Icon".

Jer... you gotta remember, the building is the icon, NOT whats in it. Otherwise, the MK icon would be a gift shop, character meet, and a restaurant; the MGM icon would be a gift shop and pin station; and the AK icon would be a movie with some bugs.

 

[Pixie Duster]

Oh wait that's right I am a fan of Disney, my bad.

 

[SwampFox]

WoL

Grizz, you've made me nostalgic. When I'm down in November, I will check to see if WoL is open. If so, I'm going to visit. If what you say is true about it closing, I want my kids to see the attractions. It's been a long time, but we really enjoyed Body Wars, Cranium Command and Making of Me!
Swamp Fox

 

[Main Street USA]

I have to say, I find the "conspiracy" theories and accusations of "untrustworthiness" of management interesting, to say the least.

Undoubtedly, each one of us has a favorite attraction in a favorite park - one that stirs fond memories or makes one feel happy or elated or young again. The fact is, however, no matter what our personal attachment to an attraction is and no matter what our level of fondness, decisions on the future enjoyment of the parks need to be made. That means some of those personal favorites will be sacrificed. Why? What's the reasoning? I, for one, could not possibly guess because I'm not part of a theme park planning world and couldn't possibly understand all of the variables that enter into such a decision. But you know what? I trust the Disney experts to make the right call. WDW is a wonderful and fantastic place - there's no place like it - and, ultimately, whether I approve of or understand the decisions that are being made, I trust that the right ones will be made. They've got a darn good 34 year track record. That's why those managers get paid the "big bucks."

For example, I loved Horizons, like many others. Was I sad to see it go? Absolutely. However, it was replaced by a cutting-edge unique attraction that has improved Epcot, no matter what my personal feelings are. Truth be told, Horizons was losing ridership over its last couple of years; it was getting tired and predictable. Possibly those who feel the same way about WOL should think along the same lines. Cranium Command and Body Wars were wonderful and innovative attractions in their day. But now the experts have determined that it may be time for a change. Trust them. Even Walt himself said that Disney[land] will never be finished and always be changing and evolving.

I had to respond to your post before I even finsihed reading this thread. You hit the nail on the head with evrything you wrote. There are people who were hired to do those jobs, and they were hired for a reason.

It's just like all the people who whine about the wand on SE and the Leave a Legacy statues. The people who designed that are some of the most creative and talented in the world.....but you post on an internet forum, so you MUST be smarter, and have a more artistic eye, than them.

 

[mkt]

Oh wait that's right I am a fan of Disney, my bad.

and?

 

[ClemsonTigger]

tigger-wdw

grizz boy stop ur whinning you dont understand why disney does these things then read the usa paper dude didnt you hear the building a new entrance for the
NEW ATTRACTION SOARING!

Hey Grizz, now you've really been outscooped! Even you didn't know the entrance for Soarin' (or Soaring sic) was going to be over by WoL! :lookaroun Maybe that's in an effort to preserve The Land!

So glad we have some new and eloquent resources on this site! :dazzle:

 

[General Grizz]

CONFLICTING REPORTS COMING IN... all conspiracies are now FROZEN until this gets solved.

I'll report to you what gets resolved. Who knows, knowing Disney the conflicting sources both may be right. :lol:

 

[se8472]

you raelly can't go by what some people say. I do understand that some peeps are in the spot to know what is really going on. I know, I am one of them.

AND I also know that I don't even know what is going on half the time.

This is why when you go to 2 CM with 1 question you will get 2 diffrent answers.

 

[Kopp8699]

Touchy subject. I agree with both sides, but not fully in agreement with all ideas and topics that both sides are stating. I agree there should be a Life pavilion in Epcot and it should be open and should have classic attractions as well as thrilling rides, good/healthy food, and outstanding exhibits. It SHOULD be saved at all costs and fixed up to its former glory. However, I can see Disney wanting to close this pavilion and I can agree with their decision. In short, it is outdated and no one cares about refurbishments, as said before. I know I miss Horizons and World of Motion, and I still don't think they HAD to be removed from a fan's point, but from the business point of view, these attractions needed to be updated. I mean it is horrible that it has to come to this, but when it becomes a barren wasteland with nobody caring about it, except for die-hard fans (who in this case are the minority compared to the general public), it must be closed to make room for a better and newer attraction/pavilion that will spark interest within the general public and the original fans. It costs money to run a pavilion and if the money being put into it doesn't turn a profit, why should it stay open? If the money that is needed to fix it up shows absolutly no change in the pavilion, why should the original money be spent? What is more in favor of the public, updates or new that could possibly be better than before? I'm sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but Disney is so successful for a reason. They are a business, and sometimes businesses need to take drastic measures to stay successful. I don't want to see it gone but it's business.

 

[Pixie Duster]

The only way any of us can know what really goes down is if we ourselves are members of management and are actually in those meetings. So until one of us lands one of those jobs, none of our accusations can be taken for more than what they are: the theories and opinions (not facts) of a bunch of internet geeks.


And no I am not putting everyone down, because I include myself in the geek category.

 

[Computer Magic]

The only way any of us can know what really goes down is if we ourselves are members of management and are actually in those meetings. So until one of us lands one of those jobs, none of our accusations can be taken for more than what they are: the theories and opinions (not facts) of a bunch of internet geeks.


And no I am not putting everyone down, because I include myself in the geek category.

It's true I'm an Internet geek.

Knowing Pixie Duster, she means "geek" in the nicest definition possible

More Dishearten, according to MKT,

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Disney needs to stop looking for more MBA's to run its parks and find more art students and PHd's to bring on board.

So I can't run the company.

Double Whammy

------------------------

Seriously though, Pixie Duster and MKT are making great points. I would only differ with MKT in I think Disney should be ran by two people; one with a MBA background and a creative art person. Proven success record and gives and checks and balance.

I think most would agree, the best way to sustain long-term growth, is to increase volume not cost cutting. What we have is a difference on how we increase volume.

Some view old attractions should be removed and replaced with new ones. They feel this will bring people back to the parks. Others want upgrades on existing attractions feeling this will keep long time visitors returning. Obviously, managements way on increasing volume to enhance revenue differs then some on this post. Some even think management is only concerned about cost cutting, which only helps short-term.

It is good to express your opinion, which is what this board is all about. I learn from both sides and sometimes my view change after hearing someone else’s prospective.

I’ve already posted this is another thread. I want WoL to exits with upgrades. I feel it’s important for people (especially kids) to spend some time learning about themselves and ways to stay healthy.

 

[KevinPage]

The only way any of us can know what really goes down is if we ourselves are members of management and are actually in those meetings. So until one of us lands one of those jobs, none of our accusations can be taken for more than what they are: the theories and opinions (not facts) of a bunch of internet geeks.

Sing it sister :lol: I've always felt that, but never went as far as to say it. And I'll proudly proclaim, I ain't no internet geek. Never wore a pen in front shirt pocket, never had a shirt with a front pocket, don't wear glasses, and never lived in my Mom's basement. (I did collect comics for a time though)

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Well,
Sorry if I will come across as a politician straddling the fence, but, I do really miss the Epcot that was, and don't see why WOM, JTI (1), Horizons (well if the structural integrity piece is true..) needed to be replaced. But, I agree that improvements and change are a part of Disney, particularly Epcot. But that change needs to be planned and coordinated.

If a decision is made to close/change something, then do it. It bothers me greatly to be in Epcot seeing vacant structures and closed signs. I can't help but have the feeling of walking through a blighted but once great town center. The history can be felt, the facades bring nostalgic feelings and even the promise of rebirth, but they are still abandoned shells. I can't see reason in having 20K as a reflection pond for 10 years. If you make the decision to close/replace an attraction...well, have your replacement ready to begin. Same goes for Tomorrowland at DL as well as a whole corner of DCA where Millionaire now makes three vacant buildings in a row. I can't understand THAT from a creative, business, common sense or logistical approach. :veryconfu

 

[speck76]

Perfect example - OLC/Tokyo Disney Resort. They keep their classics running, while adding new attractions in space where people said they couldn't fit anything. When they take a classic down for rehab, they upgrade the technologies involved while keeping the show itself primarily intact.

And they get rewarded with record-breaking attendance year after year. Even in 2001, a year which saw worldwide tourism falter, they still had record attendance AND opened a new park.

Disney is not your average company, to be ran properly, you have to give the true fan what they want while satisfying the average guest. There is more to it than short term profits and revenue. Disney needs to stop looking for more MBA's and finance students to run its parks and find more art students and PHd's to bring on board.

TDL is incomparable to WDW. the park is in the middle of one of the most populated areas on earth, and the vast majority of the visitors do not need to spend money on things like airfare and hotels. Also, if you look at the Japanese economy, it has really been in the crapper since around 1998-99, yet TDL attendance did not suffer.

Check out this which explains the attendance history and demographics of the average TDL guest. Also note, the year prior to TDS opening, TDL had 17.3 million visitors, in 2003, the two parks together only had 25 million visitors, which mean the addition of the new park really only brought in 8 million additional visitors. (that being said, was it worth the investment, DAK brough in almost that many new visitors, yet cost a fraction of what TDS cost)

From the OLC website:
The Company will continue to invest in the development of new facilities to ensure growth going forward. Investments at Tokyo Disneyland will focus on replacing and enhancing existing attractions, while those at Tokyo DisneySea will seek to make use of available space to build new attractions, thereby increasing both the appeal and the capacity of the park. In addition, Tokyo DisneySea plans to open major new attractions in two consecutive years: a roller coaster-type attraction in the fiscal year ending March 2006 and the “Tower of Terror” attraction in the fiscal year ending March 2007.

 

[WDWScottieBoy]

In fact, if you have an old version of the Unofficial Guide, you'll notice that Body Wars went from being the third attraction in the touring plan in 2003 (indicating a really popular ride) to number 14 in 2005, essentially a "go anytime" recommendation. So the computer software we're using for scheduling has noticed that there's no great rush to hit those attractions.

But to go with what you said about Body Wars going to #14 for 2005, couldn't that also have to do with the pavillion being down, therefor less guest attendance making it a less "popular" ride since no one can do it. In 2002-2003, it was open all year and wasn't seasonal then. Not until recently was it seasonal could the numbers go down because of the dates it was open. If it were open everyday and had full capacity, then I'm sure it would still be up in the top 10 at least.

 

[ZHoyt]

Maybe I'm mistaken on this, but I assume they calculate data based on wait times, not on overall attendance. As unofficial researchers, they probably don't have access to attendance numbers per attraction but could easily measure wait times throughout the day. If wait times are measured, the closures would have minimal impact on their measurements.

 

[HauntedPirate]

In addition, Tokyo DisneySea plans to open major new attractions in two consecutive years: a roller coaster-type attraction in the fiscal year ending March 2006 and the “Tower of Terror” attraction in the fiscal year ending March 2007.

Not ANOTHER ToT!!!! :hurl: :hurl: :brick: :brick:

 

[se8472]

Maybe I'm mistaken on this, but I assume they calculate data based on wait times, not on overall attendance. As unofficial researchers, they probably don't have access to attendance numbers per attraction but could easily measure wait times throughout the day. If wait times are measured, the closures would have minimal impact on their measurements.

Belive me, they know how many butts move into and out of the building, as well as how long it took the butts to move.

 

[KevinPage]

Not ANOTHER ToT!!!! :hurl: :hurl: :brick: :brick:

Then make sure they don't ever do another PoTC or Haunted Mansion at Hong Kong. :animwink:

Oriental Land Company is as close to batting 1,000 as you can get. So when I hear they want ToT, you know it won't be the DCA version.