I think that's part of the point of redos. You build an attraction and depreciate it down to its minimum. So you redo the ride, pump money into it, readjust its value, and start depreciating all over again. As I posted earlier, the depreciation and captial expenditure figures for domestic parks have been almost identical over the past few years. I assume this is on purpose, to maximize financial efficiency.
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Disney looking to cut theme park capital investment?
- Thread starter HauntedPirate
- Start date
I just hope they make good use of the money. It has been cut back a lot. I personally would like to see some NEW and ORIGINAL E-ticket rides not clones or Overlays (Stitch or Tiki under new management). I scared that since clones and overlays are less expensive, this is the direction they are going.
Agreed. But clones and overlays are nothing new. Stich is a physical variation of the old Mission to Mars. Buzz is on the same track as Dreamflight. TimeKeeper was built in the same theatre as the 360 movie. Test Track is built in the same physical space as WofM. I think the same is true of Mickey's Phil - where Magic Journeys was (and the Lion King thingy). It obviously saves them money, but the constraints limits creativity. Even CTX is the same track as the Indy ride. There are other examples, some in MGM. As for clones - I suppose if it wasn't for the economies of scale then we wouldn't get some of these rides at all.Mr. Eggz said:
Overlays arn`t nessecarily bad - Mission to Mars to Alien Encounter, Mickey Mouse Review to Magic Journeys (eventually) to Legend of the Lion King to Mickeys Phil (phew!)
These arn`t clones, they are sensible updates when needed (as fun as it was in its day, who`d still want to ride to Mars in THOSE seats??) but when they arn`t needed (AE) well..
Most of the time overlays offer such a different experience than the previous attraction / base attraction they are a new attraction (Buzz... BTW still using a 32 year old Omni track) and IJTFI/CTX but when you end up with something perceived as a lesser atttaction than its forerunner (SGE, JIYI/JIIWF,Pooh) then this is obviously a problem.
These arn`t clones, they are sensible updates when needed (as fun as it was in its day, who`d still want to ride to Mars in THOSE seats??) but when they arn`t needed (AE) well..
Most of the time overlays offer such a different experience than the previous attraction / base attraction they are a new attraction (Buzz... BTW still using a 32 year old Omni track) and IJTFI/CTX but when you end up with something perceived as a lesser atttaction than its forerunner (SGE, JIYI/JIIWF,Pooh) then this is obviously a problem.
Indy95
New Member
Ironic considering your sig. Just kidding.blackride said:
Attacks? Who's attacking? I was merely asking what you meant by "Disney overbuilt in the 80s." I never attacked you personally. Why is this so bad? Don't you want to explain your reasoning? I would personally like to hear your reasons, because I don't really see any specific examples of this. I thought that Disney did extremely well in the 80s, but then went into overexpansion (not to mention laziness) in the mid-90s.HennieBogan1966 said:
Or just don't respond. Whatever. I just wanted to have a discussion...that's what discussion boards are for, after all.
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
What I am really referencing here is the thoughts of those in support of Michael Eisner, which you can reference all over this site, as to his saving the company during the 80s and 90's. And I'm willing to admit that he did usher in a new era, created MGM Studios, Animal Kingdom, expanded Epcot, brought in new parades, as well as some new attractions for TMK. But he also grew the company in directions, which, in hindsight, weren't good for the long term.
SPECIFICALLY, I am speaking of the purchase of (2) professional sports franchises, purchasing ABC/ESPN, and Miramax. ABC continues to lose money, he sold the baseball franchise well after he should have. He SHOULD have capitalized on the sale immediately following their winning the world series. Do we even have to discuss the NHL team? ESPN continues to lose viewers due to poor programming, and the movie industry isn't what it used to be either. While I will submit that you have to grow in order to avoid things like hostile take-overs, something tells me that if he had to do all over again......
The only REAL money-maker for Disney in all that I mentioned is MNF on ABC. Unfortunately, it's time for Disney to renegotiate a new TV Deal with the NFL. And also unfortunately, they are going to have to pay more for the TV Package, than the whole network is worth, due to the fact that the NFL continues to be the most watched sport on American television.
Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on your comments toward me. But there are some specifics for you to chew on.
Brian
SPECIFICALLY, I am speaking of the purchase of (2) professional sports franchises, purchasing ABC/ESPN, and Miramax. ABC continues to lose money, he sold the baseball franchise well after he should have. He SHOULD have capitalized on the sale immediately following their winning the world series. Do we even have to discuss the NHL team? ESPN continues to lose viewers due to poor programming, and the movie industry isn't what it used to be either. While I will submit that you have to grow in order to avoid things like hostile take-overs, something tells me that if he had to do all over again......
The only REAL money-maker for Disney in all that I mentioned is MNF on ABC. Unfortunately, it's time for Disney to renegotiate a new TV Deal with the NFL. And also unfortunately, they are going to have to pay more for the TV Package, than the whole network is worth, due to the fact that the NFL continues to be the most watched sport on American television.
Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on your comments toward me. But there are some specifics for you to chew on.
Brian
tirian
Well-Known Member
MNF is losing money.
The ironic aspect to all of this is that the Disney board carefully adjusted finances to reflect growth, defying logic that all of their flops should be costing the company more money than it's making. The company insists on pointing to "Lost" and "Desperate Housewives" as successes; but these are merely two TV shows in the midst of the conglomerate, and the woman who created these shows has been fired.
As for the theme parks, Disney needs to stop opening new attractions (although we're grateful for some of them) and start taking care of those they have...without shutting them down (e.g. WoL, Timekeeper, CoP).
The ironic aspect to all of this is that the Disney board carefully adjusted finances to reflect growth, defying logic that all of their flops should be costing the company more money than it's making. The company insists on pointing to "Lost" and "Desperate Housewives" as successes; but these are merely two TV shows in the midst of the conglomerate, and the woman who created these shows has been fired.
As for the theme parks, Disney needs to stop opening new attractions (although we're grateful for some of them) and start taking care of those they have...without shutting them down (e.g. WoL, Timekeeper, CoP).
raven
Well-Known Member
If this budget cut is true, it may not include spending on the resorts. I would think that Disney would have a separate budget for resorts alone. Maybe this budget is for the parks only. In that case $1 Billion isn't a bad amount at all for one year. Just a thought that came into my mind. :wave:
Lynx04
New Member
tirian said:
I think this is more irrelivent to what disney's needs are. The parks currently have times when the parks don't have the need to keep all of the attractions open. Could Disney keep all of the attractions open all the time? Yes. But what is wrong with be conscience about unnecessary spending. The truth is the only people that would realy be upset about any of those attractions closing is us fans. Most of the GP could care less. This is one area that I think Disney is doing the right thing, and trust me I love COP and WOL, but there is no point to spend money on keeping an attraction open if there are not that many people in the parks.
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
Allow me to be more specific in reference to MNF on ABC. What I should have said is that the ratings continue to be very high for that show, so in terms of viewership, it is successful. Problem is, Disney pays too much for the programming with the current contract with the NFL, and are going to overy-pay, which their own executives admitted to last year during meetings, in order to keep this one successful program in the fold. Remember, you have to keep in mind that networks such as Fox, and even NBC, are looking to expand their programming, and are more than willing to overpay in order to land something like MNF.
So, to circle all of this discussion back on topic, I would submit that having to constantly sink money into losing propositions in order to keep them, you have to rob peter to pay paul. We can debate all day about this budget and that budget. But the bottom line is that it's ALL Disney's money. When I pay my bills each month, I don't care which bills they are as long as they are paid. And I wouldn't care if the money to pay those bills came from 3, 4, or even a dozen different checking and savings accounts. The issue at hand is that it's all MY money.
So, Disney is going to trim their projected budget for the year. Let's ask this question. Even with the cuts, is their spending going to be higher than last years? If so, then it's not REALLY a cut then is it? It could then be called fiscal responsibility. And shouldn't Disney practice fiscal responsibility for the good the company and all their CM's?
So, to circle all of this discussion back on topic, I would submit that having to constantly sink money into losing propositions in order to keep them, you have to rob peter to pay paul. We can debate all day about this budget and that budget. But the bottom line is that it's ALL Disney's money. When I pay my bills each month, I don't care which bills they are as long as they are paid. And I wouldn't care if the money to pay those bills came from 3, 4, or even a dozen different checking and savings accounts. The issue at hand is that it's all MY money.
So, Disney is going to trim their projected budget for the year. Let's ask this question. Even with the cuts, is their spending going to be higher than last years? If so, then it's not REALLY a cut then is it? It could then be called fiscal responsibility. And shouldn't Disney practice fiscal responsibility for the good the company and all their CM's?
tirian
Well-Known Member
After I posted that, I realized how cocky I sounded. That was directed against management, Lynx04, not you! 
My point was that Disney should focus on keeping their existing attractions running smoothly; the AAs on Splash Mountain are a perfect example. As for WoL and CoP themselves, I disagree with their seasonal status. For years, Disney managed to keep all the attractions open year-round, and they maintained them, too. Now they suddenly can't? Obviously, the truth is being withheld. But since seasonal statuses are here for the meantime, I have to confess that the only attraction worthy of that label is TK. I LOVE TK, folks; don't get me wrong. But it isn't a major attraction. Ir should be open year-round, but if Disney insists on keeping anything seasonal, that would be it. And Disney really shouldn't replace it: whatever else would go in there would probably get a "Seasonal" rating, too.
My point was that Disney should focus on keeping their existing attractions running smoothly; the AAs on Splash Mountain are a perfect example. As for WoL and CoP themselves, I disagree with their seasonal status. For years, Disney managed to keep all the attractions open year-round, and they maintained them, too. Now they suddenly can't? Obviously, the truth is being withheld. But since seasonal statuses are here for the meantime, I have to confess that the only attraction worthy of that label is TK. I LOVE TK, folks; don't get me wrong. But it isn't a major attraction. Ir should be open year-round, but if Disney insists on keeping anything seasonal, that would be it. And Disney really shouldn't replace it: whatever else would go in there would probably get a "Seasonal" rating, too.
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
While I agree with you that in the past most all of the attractions were maintained year round, I also believe that lack of payroll at the park level is a reason that these attractions aren't kept open year round. That along with lower ridership, and escalating maintenance costs, are probably other reasons for the rides being seasonal. I know a lot of people on here say, just pay people to man these attractions, but throwing money at a problem doesn't ALWAYS fix the problem. There are times when cutting your losses is the better plan of action. During that time, you hope to come up with a more viable solution to having an attraction that ISN'T operating, but is taking up space in your park. The question people will ask is how many riders is enough to keep an attraction open? Unfortunately, i don't think we'll ever know the answers to questions like those.
If I`d just arrived for my first (and maybe only) time and found several big attractions closed I`d be STRAIGHT to City Hall. And I wouldn`t take it out on the desk CM (ala the SGE rudeness thread!) Instead of `seasonal` any attraction in question should be reduced hours.
Imagine going home with the impression WDW only half works??
Imagine going home with the impression WDW only half works??
I think it's also a matter of perception. Whether right or not, many fans believe that cutbacks at WDW (whether seasonal closures or messier bathrooms) are a result of failings in other parts of the company - go.com, EuroDisneyland (as it was once called), payouts to Ovitz and Jeffrey K., excessive executive compensation, ABC, etc... WDW seems to still be making money hands over fist. I never minded paying if I thought the money was being reinvested in the parks, if I thought they were doing a good job of keeping the attractions in pristine condition. But I start to resent it when I feel that the money I'm forking out is going to pay for some failed venture somewhere else and not to fix the non-working effects in Splash Mountain.
My other problem was going to Tokyo Disneyland and seeing that everything works, everything's open, and that CMs in white suits scurry around in platoons sweeping the pavement around the outdoor lines so everything is continuously spotless. Amazing! Not to mention that every restaurant was open. At Disneyland Paris, they had only one restaurant open (Colonel Hahti's), and the line ups were so long I ended up eating back in Paris!
My other problem was going to Tokyo Disneyland and seeing that everything works, everything's open, and that CMs in white suits scurry around in platoons sweeping the pavement around the outdoor lines so everything is continuously spotless. Amazing! Not to mention that every restaurant was open. At Disneyland Paris, they had only one restaurant open (Colonel Hahti's), and the line ups were so long I ended up eating back in Paris!
Lynx04
New Member
tirian said:After I posted that, I realized how cocky I sounded. That was directed against management, Lynx04, not you!
My point was that Disney should focus on keeping their existing attractions running smoothly; the AAs on Splash Mountain are a perfect example. As for WoL and CoP themselves, I disagree with their seasonal status. For years, Disney managed to keep all the attractions open year-round, and they maintained them, too. Now they suddenly can't? Obviously, the truth is being withheld. But since seasonal statuses are here for the meantime, I have to confess that the only attraction worthy of that label is TK. I LOVE TK, folks; don't get me wrong. But it isn't a major attraction. Ir should be open year-round, but if Disney insists on keeping anything seasonal, that would be it. And Disney really shouldn't replace it: whatever else would go in there would probably get a "Seasonal" rating, too.
It is cool, I understand your frustration. I would like to enjoy ever attraction when I go to the parks, and at first I was really disappointed about the seasonal status of attractions like WOL and COP. The more I think about it though the more I tend to side with Disney with it. Disney is not hurting in any way and could keep ever attraction open all year long with out going under, it is just being business conscience to not waste more money then they need to. There are to sides that Disney has to play to, they have the Guest (us), and they have the Shareholders (some of us are share holders as well). The fan side of me says keep everything open, but the shareholder side says don't spend unnecessarily.
I agree 100% about the broken AA. If Disney has an attraction open it should be at the highest quality possible. That is the Disney standard and they have been under performing their own standard.