Disney Is Reportedly Looking to Reboot Pirates of the Caribbean

[SJN1279]

The majority of Disney Studios films since 2000 have lost money at the box office (perhaps some of them went into the black with the after market activity such as DVD sales and streaming income). The exceptions are live action remakes and franchises, but even then, the last two PotC didn't profit at the box office. But three of the five did.

So...

Pirates 4 made 1 billion at the worldwide box office. It definitely turned a profit.

Pirates 5 made approximately 800 million on a 230 budget. It also turned a profit.

 

[nolatron]

I don't think I'd mind a reboot of the franchise. The first movie came out just over 15 years ago in 2003. So I wouldn't say it's too soon for one. Look at Spiderman, it's been rebooted twice since it's first film in 2002.

I'd probably prefer a totally new cast and story archs though. Something that does not involve Sparrow and related characters.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Pirates 4 made 1 billion at the worldwide box office. It definitely turned a profit.

Pirates 5 made approximately 800 million on a 230 budget. It also turned a profit.

You must have missed this post...

Let's look at the franchise:

View attachment 322132

The first movie, P1, was well received critically and did well at the Box Office and made a profit.

Profit is determined by figuring that the cost of marketing is an additional cost at about half the production budget (and we know the PotC movies are heavily advertised), and that Disney only gets about half the BO gross (higher domestically, lower internationally).

P2 wasn't as well liked as P1, but, it wasn't hated. Audiences showed up. the BO increased, and the profit went up.

P3 started to show fatigue amongst critics. It's BO was almost as much as P2, but, its profit was way down. The budget for P3 was more than twice that for P1. (For comparison, since 2000, the average budget for a Disney Studios movie is $86 million... Christopher Robin was $70 million, and new Jungle Book was $177 million).

P4 was hated critically. Even though it made as much at the BO as P2 and P3, it lost money at the BO because of it's ridiculously insane budget of $411 million.

You can tell Disney had enough of that budget inflation because P5's budget was significantly lower... but then so was its BO. Not only had critics tired of the franchise, but the two previous sub-par movies drove down attendance for P5, making that one also a money-loser.

All this talk of rebooting is, I'm sure, partly a ploy to let Depp know he's not going to be paid like he used to if he can't make this franchise profitable, and part of it not being profitable (aside from just not being a good movie) is insanely high budgets inflated by insanely high star salaries. But that should go without saying since his star-appeal didn't save Alice2 from being a cinematic and financial disaster.

I emboldened the relevant part. The Box Office figures are shared between the movie maker and the theater. The movie maker gets only about half the box office. The budget for films don't include marketing, which is often about half the production budget.

So, the last two PotC lost money at the Box Office. In the aftermarket, they may have made up for it with DVD and streaming and merchandise, but, theatrically, they financially failed.

 

[Indy_UK]

It's Johny Depp that makes the franchise stale. A big reboot will do the franchise good.

 

[Maeryk]

It's Johny Depp that makes the franchise stale. A big reboot will do the franchise good.

After Black Sails and the PotC movies, we need some throwback pirates, straight out of golden age Hollywood. The cartoonish type the rides originally featured. At least, that is what I would love to see. More Horatio Hornblower high seas Douglas Fairbanks style, and less mumbly mystical compass bearing goofball.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Jack Sparrow character.. but I loved Barbossa more.. THAT is a pirate out of the ride.

 

[CJR]

I don't imagine people will be all that excited for a rebooted film franchise.

A better idea, if they want to end the existing franchise, but keep PotC active, is to do a Netflix-style series on their streaming service.

 

[SJN1279]

I don't imagine people will be all that excited for a rebooted film franchise.

A better idea, if they want to end the existing franchise, but keep PotC active, is to do a Netflix-style series on their streaming service.

Every earlier attempt at a Pirate movie bombed until this franchise. The success has to do with Captain Jack(Depp) and to a lesser extent Barbossa(Rush). Without them, good luck with a part 6.

And Pirates 4 and 5 were box office successes.

 

[Maeryk]

Every earlier attempt at a Pirate movie bombed until this franchise. The success has to do with Captain Jack(Depp) and to a lesser extent Barbossa(Rush). Without them, good luck with a part 6.

And Pirates 4 and 5 were box office successes.

We are in the midst of a huge nostalgia boom right now though. You have MacGuyver, SWAT, Magnum PI, and other reboots on TV, Charmed is coming out again, and older (not just talking about the DC and Sonyverse habit of making three and then starting over with comics) movies are being redone with a new vision.. so the time may be right for a high adventure film in a traditional grand stage setting. We haven't had much in the way of good action movies lately, and with the 80s being apparently all the rage to relive, I predict we get a glut of them that tread familiar ground with a new look in the next 5 years.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Every earlier attempt at a Pirate movie bombed until this franchise. The success has to do with Captain Jack(Depp) and to a lesser extent Barbossa(Rush). Without them, good luck with a part 6.

And Pirates 4 and 5 were box office successes.

If you define "box office success" as "selling a huge amount of tickets compared to other movies", then yes. They were successful in that regard.

If you define "box office success" as "making a profit at the box office taking into account the production company's 50% share minus all their costs", then no. They were not successful in that regard.

If you want to have it both ways, "they were box offices successes that lost their production company money."

 

[Maeryk]

If you define "box office success" as "selling a huge amount of tickets compared to other movies", then yes. They were successful in that regard.

If you define "box office success" as "making a profit at the box office taking into account the production company's 50% share minus all their costs", then no. They were not successful in that regard.

If you want to have it both ways, "they were box offices successes that lost their production company money."

You have to look at merch and video sales too though. It's not as simple as "box office" when it's a Disney, who create artificial scarcity with their works ("going in the vault"), and will slap a logo on everything short of caskets (so far) from a successful brand.

 

[MisterPenguin]

You have to look at merch and video sales too though. It's not as simple as "box office" when it's a Disney, who create artificial scarcity with their works ("going in the vault"), and will slap a logo on everything short of caskets (so far) from a successful brand.

I did mention the aftermarket isn't being accounted for. But, it'll take a lot of merch to make up for the $100 million production hole the last two movies dug.

 

[Indy_UK]

We are in the midst of a huge nostalgia boom right now though. You have MacGuyver, SWAT, Magnum PI, and other reboots on TV, Charmed is coming out again, and older (not just talking about the DC and Sonyverse habit of making three and then starting over with comics) movies are being redone with a new vision.. so the time may be right for a high adventure film in a traditional grand stage setting. We haven't had much in the way of good action movies lately, and with the 80s being apparently all the rage to relive, I predict we get a glut of them that tread familiar ground with a new look in the next 5 years.

Agreed. Sparrow is a goofball and that can only go far over a franchise.

A full proper reboot that covers different Pirates which cross paths, could give a reboot longevity.

Definitely bring in 'Red' from the ride too.

Just need the writers to come out with a good compelling set of stories that could cover at least a trilogy and lock in some good cast to commit. Even with a reboot,I would have Geoffrey Rush back.

 

[Dead2009]

You must have missed this post...


I emboldened the relevant part. The Box Office figures are shared between the movie maker and the theater. The movie maker gets only about half the box office. The budget for films don't include marketing, which is often about half the production budget.

So, the last two PotC lost money at the Box Office. In the aftermarket, they may have made up for it with DVD and streaming and merchandise, but, theatrically, they financially failed.

On Stranger Tides is one of only 2 in the franchise to reach 1 billion. It broke records. But it apparently failed financially? Okay.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

I think this would be better spun-off into a prequel original series on their streaming service. We don't need more Pirates movies.

 

[MisterPenguin]

On Stranger Tides is one of only 2 in the franchise to reach 1 billion. It broke records. But it apparently failed financially? Okay.

If you're Disney studios, yes.

They spent $411 million on production and another approximately $200 million on advertising. The box office was over a billion, but Disney studios doesn't get that billion. Theaters have to make money, too. Theaters get half, the production company gets half. So, Disney Studios got only $500 million but spent over $600 million.

Do the math and answer this question: How much profit did On Stranger Tides make Disney Studios at the box office taking into account the cost of making and advertising the movie?

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

If you're Disney studios, yes.

They spent $411 million on production and another approximately $200 million on advertising. The box office was over a billion, but Disney studios doesn't get that billion. Theaters have to make money, too. Theaters get half, the production company gets half. So, Disney Studios got only $500 million but spent over $600 million.

Do the math and answer this question: How much profit did On Stranger Tides make Disney Studios at the box office taking into account the cost of making and advertising the movie?

I get that Disney doesn't collect every penny a movie makes, but I have a hard time buying into the notion that million dollar grossing movies lose money, or that most Disney movies lose money.

They wouldn't be in the movie business if that were the case. Most movies don't come close to earning as much as most Disney movies do, how do all these studios survive?

 

[Magenta Panther]

I think that Depp unfortunately has too much baggage to really help the Pirates franchise now (messy divorce, idiot political statements). But while I'm no longer much of a fan of Depp, I still LOVE the Jack Sparrow character. As I suggested in another thread - why not have another actor play Sparrow? There are actors at WDW that are dead ringers for Depp and do a better job at portraying the character anyway IMO - they're not as steeped in schtick as Depp is. Oh, I know, replacing Harrison Ford as the Han Solo character did not work out well for the Solo film, BUT then part of the reason IMO is that nobody else can look like Ford. Sparrow, on the other hand, is as much a creation of makeup and costuming as he is of performance. For those reasons, I bet some new young actor could do the character justice just as well as Depp - IF the writing is good.

As for Redd being a new character in the new franchise...well, heck yes. She'd be a billion times more believable than, oh, say, a pampered governor's daughter who is also a brilliant sailor/swordsman because I-am-woman-hear-me-roar. Redd would have street cred. Just cast a good character actress for her, not some waifish flavor-of-the-month. I'd nominate Amy Poehler for the role.

And yes, Geoffrey Rush was amazing as Barbossa. I'd love to see him back in the franchise.

But more than all of those - PLEASE SOMEONE WRITE A GOOD SOLID FUN SCRIPT THAT ISN'T FULL OF BIZARRE TWISTS AND TOO MUCH PLOT. Make Pirate Movies Fun Again!

 

[MisterPenguin]

I get that Disney doesn't collect every penny a movie makes, but I have a hard time buying into the notion that million dollar grossing movies lose money, or that most Disney movies lose money.

They wouldn't be in the movie business if that were the case. Most movies don't come close to earning as much as most Disney movies do, how do all these studios survive?

By having a much smaller budget. On Stranger Tides had a budget of over $400 million. The average MCU movie budget is $192. Blue Sky's is $61 million. Original Toy Story was $30 million.

Remember Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day? Yeah, no one does. But that was a Disney Studios movie, and it was made for $28 million. It's BO was $101 million. Profit of $31 million (taking into account advertising and BO splitting).

The Muppets was made for $45 million, BO of $165, profit of $15.

So, that's how you profit. Unfortunately for Disney Studios, they keep swinging for a lot of big budget movies that never make enough BO to cover the cost. That's not like some other companies/divisions. In millions of dollars...

Avg. Avg. Avg.
Studio Budget Gross Profit

Pixar $154 $664 $102

Sony/Marvel $187 $758 $98

Disney/Marvel $192 $876 $148

Fox Anim./Blue Sky $86 $448 $79

Disney Anim.
All Time $61 $239 $29

Disney Anim.
since Little Mermaid $111 $385 $26

Disney Studios
since 2000 $86 $249 -$5

 

[DisneyGigi]

Maybe, a reboot should come awhile after the last movie, no matter who stars in it. The last Toy Story came out in 2010. I cannot wait to see the next one. Same thing with Incredibles 2- 14 year wait, made it so much better. I loved the Pirate movies, but to be honest I am sick of them. Wait awhile and give us something to miss. I won’t be going to see another one, unless it is a good few years down the road. Just my opinion.

 

[Dead2009]

Johnny Depp Reportedly Being Dropped From The Pirates Of The Caribbean Reboot
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/24...pped-from-the-pirates-of-the-caribbean-reboot